I install a fresh Fedora7 (test 3) then run web browser and go to
fedora magazine page - from there I download some video ogg files from
it.

Why is it that when I click on the file I can't view the video? Player
just crashes! And the default player is kamboodle! Why is that?!? That
is the worst video player I have seen ever! On any platform!
Opensource or not there is no excuse to put that player as the default
one!

Fedora 7 experience was a bit better than FC6 one - because in FC6
when I tried the same experiment I got an error message that ogg is a
unknown format and system doesn't know how to open it!

Great! And that was an OGG file with 0% proprietary fibers in it
How do you expect to get people to use linux as a destop when the MOST
simple multimedia desktop scenario doesn't work!?!

If you can't play "official" video form redhat pages then this is a
serious case of TERRIBLE multimedia desktop usability!

I know about all the great effort that has gone into fedora releases,
and I love it. It is the best linux distro for me, but I know how to
set it up, iron out the quirks that mess up the destop experience and
configure it for optimal work/play flow.

But please, please make it a lot easier on non-geek people so that
they can also use this great stuff called fedora. And belive me there
are people wanting to do so, but they can't because we don't let them.
They need some features to be enabled by default or else they won't
know how that they even exist.

So please change the default video player to totem or something else,
just NOT kamboodle because it just doesn't work and it sucks GUI vise.

Regarding proprietary video codecs RedHad developers just say
something like this: "We talked with out lawyers and they said no."
Ok? And? Where can we see this discussion? I know that you can't put
MP3 support in fedora, but that you can't even put an link for some
European server that has all the codecs? Lawyers say that RedHat can
be sued even for puting links that enable multimedia. Ok, maybe I
believe it but it is maybe possible that some one would sue, but
hardly win that case.

But there are legal ways around that, you can put a text saying that
it is legal to enable multimedia codecs only if you live in a country
that doesn't have software patents - like I do.

It is possible if you want it - Ubuntu has shown that because they
will be doing just that, and even a step beyond that. Ubuntu will have
a Ubuntu for European market and other countries that don't have
software patents (my country doesn't!) with all multimedia codecs
embedded within the distro!

So please let's start the discussion because believe me there is a
great need for this because there are lot's media files that are
every where (internet, youtube, divx rips of dvds, etc...) that people
have a need to watch and listen.

Hope to hear from Fedora/RedHat developers and Desktop usability
experts what are their opinions.

I will make this email available also on my blog:
http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/
so you can leave/read comments there also
or one of the fedora mailing lists I posted this letter to:
fedora-devel-list
fedora-desktop-list
fedora-list

Valent
- fiber optics and networking engineer from Croatia.

This is still a test release. That was from Announcing Fedora 7 Test 3 (6.92). So file your bug reports and let them know what doesn't work - with error logs and the such like.

Same thing with Suse 10.2
I had a laptop with lots of ogg files and one DVD with Suse 10.2 and no internet connection for a week.

I installed it and was unable to read my OWN ogg files. I was quite annoyed.

All these problems due to these patents ..

I know that.

That is exactly why I didn't write this when I tested Fedora 6 for the first time. I waited also for test 1 and test 2 to pass. But this seams like a patter not like a bug. Or RedHat doesn't even do desktop usability studies? I don't know exactly, but this seams like more than a bug. And I repeat that I WAS aware that this is only a test release. But if you remember that even bigger bugs pass into final versions - like kernel i686 blunder with Fedora Core 6.

Note this: Totem, like the other "player" you mentioned, is really not a full multimedia player. They are front-ends, i.e. "covers" that look good and let you use your mouse to control the nice graphical interface. I'm pretty sure no matter what front-end "player" you have on your Fedora, the backend is still either Xine or GStreamer (both are "big" and both work well). You need to get the codecs or plugins for the backend (engine), not the front-end; all the front-end like Totem does is give you an interface to control the engine. Without an engine Totem, or any other front-end, would do nothing (except probably complain that there is no player engine present). So actually you have an easy task of switching the interface if you don't like it, because it doesn't probably affect the egine.

The problems do arise from legal stuff; if there was no problmen in adding all the multimedia plugins available, they would be added. The problem is, Fedora staff don't want to get sued for having preinstalled mp3 decoders or encoders or something like that on board, so their only option is to leave it to the users -- be thankful you are given an easy way to add them (it could really be worse).

Yes b0uncer, but here we are talking about ogg.
As far as I am concerned I understood that totem is a frontend. Probably vlc integrates its own codecs, it was the case before.
Since now I have removed suse (suse is another example, I didn't try Fedora.. yet) but I think vlc was not included.

There is a problem if you can't read ogg out of the box. There is to my knowledge no patents on this.
Avi were also impossible to read. Not sure if there is (still) a patent on avi.

I wouldn't say it's a disaster as the title said. It's easy when you have internet. But I wonder why ogg is not included...

Same rant in 3 Fedora/Linux sites, one of the sites has locked it down.

Which sites?
What is "it"?

Sorry I don't understand what you mean

Which sites?
LinuxForums
FedoraForums

What is "it"?

Well "it" being the pointless rant to draw in you and I. Wouldn't the poster have been better served to file a bug report or ask for help?

I have a FC6 server set up and wanted to run Gnump3d, so I tried to rip my CD collection into OGG using all included tools and it locked my machine up tight every time. I even re-built my server to make sure I had not screwed up the settings, but still the same problem. I was left to ripping my CD's on a Ubuntu machine and three Windows laptops (made it go quicker anyway). It serves the files just fine, but just won't rip them.

This kind of post is making me mad .

The OP is a newbie with a distro and downloads a beta a month before the release. When the beta doesn't work right out of the box, he screams murder and pronounces the distro as "full of s**t".

For all you guys and gals starting up, a bit of advice. Do not follow the OP example:

1. Backup your data! I mean it!
2. Do not start with a beta or a newly released distro. Give it a month to stabilize. Install the previous release unless your hardware is so new as to require the newest stuff. Chances are you'll get it running much faster.
3. Read the forums like this one and google your problem. Most of these subjects have been documented, but documenting a new release takes time.
4. If you're stuck, then post. But at least, give us some details so we can help.

As for multimedia in general, Fedora is a fine platform. My whole house is Fedora (with 5 computers ) and multimedia support accounts for a great deal in it, on both the server and client side. I use MythTV to manage, record (with four capture cards) and stream television programs, films, music and Internet radio streams, Jinzora for web-based access to my music when a full-screen display is not convenient, gallery2 to sort my pictures, SoundJuicer to rip my CDs and easytag to write the id3tags, and this is all on top of "regular" network services: nis/nfs, samba, dns, imap, smtp, backups with rsync, etc. And I started as a complete newb, two years ago. So be patient, read a lot, ask good questions and you'll get there.

Peace.

Well, I guess the Red Hat / Fedora team are playing it safe. I just read today that MS is getting sued because of including MP3 support in their OS. They did pay licensing or whatever but apparently some other company has gotten hold of the patents and now it does not recognize any claims made by MS about being entitled to use MP3. OK, ogg is supposed to be open source but apparently Red Hat Inc isn't too sure there aren't any sharp corners. And a commercial distro like Red Hat is far more susceptible to litigation than, say, Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS. They can be sued as well but who would care, what have they got to offer?