---------------------------
Disk Management
---------------------------
An unexpected error has occurred. Check the System Event Log for more information on the error. Close the Disk Management console, then restart Disk Management or restart the computer.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------


This is the text that I get. The GUI didn't copy over, but that doesn't matter. If Vista will not cooperate, how do I get Fedora 8 to install? The MMC says that I can free up 23 gigabytes. I'm just trying to get 20 gigabytes free so as not to push it to the limit.

The output of this log is an almost unreadable XML file that simply says that I failed to shrink the disk. Gee, thats great Bill !!

The reason that I want Fedora 8 is that Fedora 7 works great, but not with my speakers. The live CD successfully installed, but on the wrong partition. Previously, I had 2 split partitions. One was a small 6 gigabyte that I don't use and the other was about a 13 gigabyte EXT3 that I used for Fedora 7.

Another thing, this computer is a Lenovo 3000 N100. There is a weird 6 gigabyte partition that I can't delete, move or force Vista to absorb. One can, however shrink or format it as one likes. It almost seems like a smaller disk drive inside of the computer. I have searched the laptop carefully for any evidence of a second mini-disk and have found nothing.

Obviously, this mini-drive (or volume, partition, whatever it really is..... Vista says Volume) can be manipulated just fine.

My objectives are to get the Vista hard drive to shrink so I can install Fedora 8. Figure out how to get rid of the weird 6 gigabyte partition so it can be used by Vista so that I can move that partition to that end of the hard drive. Lastly, to enjoy all of the multimedia hacks that I intent to install on Fedora 8 when I get it working.

17/11/07 635pm

Hello mdlinuxwolf:

I have a Toshiba Satellite A200 with 110 GB hard drive where after an initial install the
main Vista Partition would not Shrink to less then somewhere between 50 and 60 GB it started out around 90 GB.
This left previous little space for my data and backups further the actual space used
by Vista including all paging files was less than 15 GB. in other words a waste of around
40 GB.

My only solution grab a copy of PARTITION MANAGER FROM PARAGON SOFTWARE and repartition
the whole drive excepting the 10 GB (+/-) RESTORE PARTITION THAT CAME ON THE ORIGINAL COMPUTER and a small partition about 1.3 GB. called the Eisa Partition needed for Vista to
operate.
I first made a complete restore DVD(8 GB.) of the Vista Partition once I had
that I deleted all partitions except the two mentioned above the Eisa Partition
and the RESTORE PARTITION(NTFS type).
Thus on the hard drive there were at the start the small Eisa Partition at the
beginning and at the end the RESTORE PARTITION(NTFS) in between was blank.
I then created first a partition of 28 GB. for Vista.
The hard drive now had three primary partitions and only room for
either one primary partition or as many logical partitions as needed.
I have not seen a Windows Operating System that is able to have more than
four primary partitions(not before Vista), if you need more than four partitions
then Windows(such as Win98SE and before)
uses the fourth partition to make one large extended partition within this
Extended Partition it creates whatever number of logical partitions are needed.
It does this technically by always splitting a partition into two one
part remains as the original part and the other part is the new part
only the latter has the ability to split and produce another new part.
Like an amoeba cell splitting into two the first one male and the other female get that?

I needed at least
three more partitions:
1 data
2 back up
3 for other things.
These latter three had to be logical partitions(That was always true
in my Win98 system).
Then I used my RESTORE DVD that I had created and made sure
to choose the proper option to allow Vista to only install
in the 28 GB primary partition and not to change any other
partitions and leave all data or even empty data(if that exists)
on any other partitions alone(Vista restore likes to erase all data.)

So I now have Vista running in one partition, data on another
but not backups, or other things just yet.
On checking my drive out to see if I remembered correctly I discovered
that I was in error saying that all three non Vista partitions
(1, 2 and 3 in the extended partition)
are logical. They are all in the extended partition unlike
the Vista, Eisa and Restore partitions but two of the partitions
inside the extended partition are primary only(the data)
is a logical partition all three are NTFS partitions like
two of the three original ones all in all the disk has five NTFS
and one Eisa partition.)
So clearly I didn't know Vista can have more than three primary
partitions and they can be inside the extended partition. I guess
that this might just be a legacy quirk to keep Vista's disk
partitioning and file system compatible
with the older FAT 16 and FAT 32 partitions.
Most important is that NTFS partitions
are extremely stable considering the complexity of Vista's
operating system.

Cheers,

Solmoeban

Doesn't Vista come with its own partition resizing tool?

That is madness with the Toshiba. I just nuked all of the NTFS partitions, made new ones + a nice EXT3 20 gigabytes in size just for Fedora 8. As soon as I fix GRUB, I'll be good to go. I managed to sweet talk the nice Hindu babe @ M$ into reactivating my product key.

Oh, thats right. NOW I remember why I like Linux. The backup tool Windows Live One care is not without its own brand of weirdness. One touch restore, it ain't.

They're coming to take me away Ha Ha

They're coming to take me away Hee Hee Ho Ho to the funny farm where life is.......

You get the idea. Why is it actually easier to throw partitions around in XP? Shouldn't there be more functionality built in not less?

At least everything works.

18/11/07 12:05am

Hello mdlinuxwolf:

I can't Nuke everything because all I know is Windows 98SE
and I want to learn Vista and Linux(Ubuntu) which I think
is simpler than Fedora(Red Hat two or three years ago.)
Suggestion to fix GRUB install Vista first then install
Fedora this is how it works on my very old Win98SE system
GRUB will find all other primary and logical partitions
and make one great big FAT GRUB. To stop that I
removed my second hard drive this reduced the size of
GRUB to reasonable proportions. But then again I don't
know if this will work for Vista.

In reply to Oscar Vista has its own partitioning tool
for shrinking to a certain percentage but it doesn't like
to shrink any partition enough it will also create partitions
but not erase them(no doubt to keep me from NUKING the wrong
partition and blaming them
ditto for not letting me shrink a partition much.)


Cheers,

Solmoeban

What I'm about to propose may seem a little bit $$, but it is the best way to go. Remove the old Windows drive and set it aside as a data backup. Go out and buy a SATA II drive and a PCI adapter card for it. Promise technologies makes one. Put Vista on that drive. Use a drive cage or an adapter cable to move data to the Vista drive.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=C250-2288

Use that to link the old 98 drive.

When Vista is totally squared away, go out and buy a second SATA II drive that is in some way different in storage capacity as the first. If you got a 250 gig for the Vista drive, get either a 160 or 320 gig hard drive for Linux. There should be NO chance for confusion when dual booting. Use a live DVD or CD to see how the flavor of the week will behave with your hardware. I like Fedora 8 and Simply Mepis 6.5.02, but thats just me. I've also used SuSE 10.2 and was basically happy with it. Fedora and SuSE are "rpm" type distros. Adding software is slightly more similar to M$, but far better thought out.

Be sure to get a graphics card with at least 256 video RAM that supports direct x 10 so Vista will be happy. Linux gets along pretty well with Nvidia cards (sort of) more then most others.

21/11/2007 12:42am

Hello mdlinuxwolf:

Reading your instructions I got a different idea and have these questions, please comment.

1. I did some reading about Vista's system and
learned that it's on a dynamic partition.
Month's ago(September)
checking out the boot programs of each partition on the Toshiba hard drive all showed
the required first 512 bytes boot programs but in Vista's partition, the 512 bytes
were visible but appeared to be constantly changing.
So copying the Vista system partition would require
another operating system
to copy Vista's system 512 byte boot program.
It would seem more sensible to me to first get linux
operating on an external drive like you proposed
to find out what linux can do regarding copying Vista what do you think?

2. Do you think that putting Vista from my Toshiba Notebook's FUJITSU MHW2120BH 120 GB hard drive
on to another completely different 80 GB Maxtor hard
drive may just be possible till M$ gets wind off it
and starts having validation concerns?
Not that it matters to me as I just want to see it done.

After reading your email I agree 'Ubuntu' is one of the flavors of the week for this century Red Hat-Fedora was last century's, in other words 'Ubuntu' is just emerging other than that they are both free and mutually incompatible I think.



Cheers,

Solmoeban

.... but I had to use easy BCD to do it. Basically, what you have to do is to get a copy of the entire /boot directory. You need a GRUB configuration file. Then, you cut and paste it into neogrub's file that Vista says to use. If anyone likes to know, I can write it up with all of the details.


The most important thing to do is to make sure that GRUB is NOT installed to the MBR or to the root of the drive. Vista has a file or folder called bootmgr. If you nuke this, you can't fix it. The O/S disk will not repair a bad boot sector despite M$ hyping it. When installing Fedora 8, I instructed the live CD to put /boot into a partition harmlessly in the middle of the drive. What happens ? Vista boots itself without a trace of Linux. That is good. The trick is to capture the /boot directory to get the right file. I copied it to a USB using a Mepis Live CD and then I got it from there while in Vista.


The Windows boot loader can then go to Fedora's GRUB and from there Linux boots itself.

Why do people use Ubuntu, if you are going to use rebranded Debian, just install Debian. The only difference is their is no crap attached to the project, which is a good thing.

---

My friend got a new laptop from Dell the other day with Vista on. We tried to get Fedora to play ball with Vista for several days but in the end we zeroed the hdd using dd, installed Win XP on it instead of Vista, and then stuck Fedora 8 on.

It now works happily.

If you really have a major hard on for Vista (and why wouldnt you, since you obviously love M$ spying on you and controlling your life), then some convoluted instructions exist for getting both Vista and Linux to work together. They can be found on google if you search. But after reading past the third required grub reinstall we binned vista. No OS is worth that amount of hassle.

I need Vista for job experience and certifications, unfortunately. I dual boot it with Fedora 8 via the Easy BCD tool. This involves putting GRUB on a partition in the middle of the hard drive, not the MBR or the root of the drive. Then one copies the GRUB configuration file and puts it into something like \mnt\ menu something or other.

Debian is too unfriendly for me and Ubuntu just isn't my style. I don't like the way it is laid out for some reason. I prefer Simply Mepis over either of them. You have a good friendly interface without anything stupid that you don't want. Hardware compatibility is excellent and you can read and write NTFS files from either the installed version or the live CD.

I went with Fedora 8 for my 3000 N100 Lenovo laptop because it is compatible with all of my hardware including sound and wireless. It is way faster then Vista Business. When I next run Vista, I'll put a screenshot up with the file and all of the details. I would rather not reboot because it is just too slow.

I've booted into Vista Business. Here is what dual booting with Neogrub looks like.

After installing Easy BCD 1.6 and Neogrub, you will see a directory called C:\NST. In this directory is a file called menu.lst. You must cut and paste grub.conf into this file using notepad. It helps to clean up grub.conf once it is installed. The syntax looks like this.

You can't read grub.conf while in Vista so you will need a live CD such as Mepis 6.5.02 to mount that portion of the hard drive to copy the /boot directory. For simplicity's sake, it is easiest to copy this onto a thumb drive or an external hard drive. The live CD will allow you to do this. While it is possible to mount the NTFS partition that has Vista with the Mepis live CD, I feel that it is safer to use Vista and notepad to cut and paste grub.conf into menu.lst. After that, you will have 2 working choices and you can dual boot using a modified Vista bootloader.


# NeoSmart NeoGrub Bootloader Configuration File
#
# This NeoGrub menu.lst file should be located at \NST\menu.lst of the boot drive.
# Please see the EasyBCD Documentation for information on how to create/modify entries

# grub.conf generated by anaconda
#

# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file

# NOTICE: You have a /boot partition. This means that

# all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.

# root (hd0,4)

kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00

initrd /initrd-version.img
#boot=/dev/sda5
default=0
timeout=5
splashimage=(hd0,4)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
hiddenmenu
title Fedora (2.6.23.1-42.fc8)

root (hd0,4)
kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.23.1-42.fc8 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 rhgb quiet
initrd /initrd-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.img
title Microsoft Vista Business
rootnoverify (hd0,4)
chainloader +1


As you can see, grub is placed on a partition other then the root of the drive and the MBR. Fedora 8 is installed as usual on a partition after using Vista's tool to shrink its own partition.

While trusting Vista to dual boot with Linux is dubious at best, it is a workable solution. Boot times are slower then normal. Neogrub is inefficient. I hope this helps people use Linux in a Vista environment.

27/11/07 7:50p

Hello mdlinuxwolf:

Thanks for putting the NeoGrub boot loader on your post I will copy it and see if after reading
it at leisure it makes sense to me! I am familiar with 'menu.lst' which is in the following
branch of 'UBUNTU' Linux: /boot/grub/ without understanding all of its intricacies
I managed to change the boot sequence, partitions and timing. Your post also verifies what I have read before
GRUB and VISTA don't get along in the hard-drive's main MBR or Vista partition.
Grub should be in another(non Vista) operating system's partition that is accessible to
VISTA when it boots, how to do that is my problem to figure out.

Anyway I will be plugging along and look up on the internet what NeoGrub, easy BCD 1.6 and \NST are.

As for all the spying by Microsoft(somebody wrote that here maybe it was you) it's just
extremely annoying and has existed before 'Vista' was even thought of then again what do
people think some Microsoft updates are for?

Cheers,

Solmoeban

Every install and hard drive is a little different. Therefore, you can't just copy what I posted above. That is just an example. You must copy the /boot directory and look for the grub.conf file that your version of Linux created during its install. Every bit of hardware and distro is a little different, including versions of GRUB.

The vast majority of Linux distros have a partitioning function that also lets you perform advanced configuration of the boot loader and make partitions as one is installing. You should make a small partition especially for the /boot directory. This means that you can't just go Click => Next..... root password etc. You have to use the custom or advanced tools that you should have. You don't have to install at the time you make partitions if you use a live CD. It may be a good idea to make the partitions and then boot into Vista just to verify that no harm was done. No Vista partition should be altered in any way. Never make Vista's hard drive into a dynamic disc. That is a big no-no with Linux.

If not, use the Mepis 6.5.02 live CD to make partitions AFTER shrinking Vista's with Vista. I would say make either an EXT2, EXT3 or Reiser partition that is about 512 megabytes in size. This is far larger then you'll need, which is a good thing. With the live CD the username is root. So is the password. Use the Q-parted or G-parted tool for this. I prefer the Q-parted myself. While I'm not sure if it hurts anything, I would make all the partitions the same type instead of mixing them up. If your small boot partition is a Reiser, the others should be the same, for example.

This small partition will appear in the choices section of where to put GRUB. Don't select the boot sector or root of the drive as a default. The location will be called custom or alternate or whatever.

While you're at it, make another partition that fills up the remainder of the space on the hard drive. For security reasons, I don't use swap files. If you need something from the Windows side such as an important document(s) or whatever, you can make still another partition that is 2 gigabytes in size before you max out the rest of the hard drive.

The Mepis live CD can read and write NTFS files unlike many others. This makes it a great mischief or rescue tool depending on your inclination. If the live CD does all of the functions that you need out of the computer, go ahead and install Mepis, which is also referred to as Simply Mepis for a good reason. Mepis is Debian or Ubuntu based, very friendly, and more logical then Ubuntu. Refrain from the experimental laptop or any "eye candy". This is never necessary.

I actually go out and BUY a gigabyte of RAM (what a concept) Some think that everything should be free. This is not the case. This is all that I remember about the Linux-Vista thing at this time. I'm sure I'll think of something else once I'm away from the computer. Making and using a swap file is a security risk that needlessly works the hard drive harder then necessary.

After getting them to boot together, the fun part is installing multimedia support.....

09/12/07 12:23

Hello MdLinuxWolf:

I have come back from the dead to continue
this thread. I created a substantial reply and clicked
on 'Review' then my post disappeared into thin air just like
like my old 19" Dell Screen(10years old I think as it was
a refurbished one in 2000.) Briefly I give you the
substance of what I wrote:
1. Re your concern I don't copy stuff from the internet
or anywhere else straight into my various operating systems.
Long experience srewing around with second hand or new computers
since the late 70's have taught me to know better.

2. By cut and pasting I have on a 40Gig Maxtor 5400rpm the
following operating systems all booting from the MBR.
a. Win98SE with ZoneAlarm and Avast on primary 3(930MG)
b. Similarly Win98SE with ZA and AVG on primary 1(930MG)
c. UBUNTU with 3+Gigs on primary 2
d. DSL(DamnSmalLinux=Knoppix=Debian) on Extended 1
3. UBUNTU swap partition on Extended 2
4. Extended 3 storage
5. Extended 4 downloads
6. Extended 5 Program Files for all win98's
7. Extended 6 storage
8. Extended 7 Windows SWAP
9. Extended six other partitions each with a backup copy
of one of the two windows primary partitions.
10. A partition with tar.tgz files which are copies of the
Win98 systems.

I like to give UBUNTU a good SWAP partition which Windows98
can't read or see not much chance for viruses to spread I think.
Yes my common swap win98 partition has had viruses or spyware or both that's why I use at least three different spyware programs
and fire walls.

One day when I am not busy learning 'Linux' I will try to
unzip the tar.tgz files onto one of the win98 root
systems and see if that will restore my windows partition.
I realize at least two problems tar.tgz files unlike Norton
ghost files I think don't contain the two FATs that windows has
for each Win98SE operating system and of course no tar file
that I know of has an MBR or any other BOOT sector
of which a system can easily contain 255 I think.
It is of interest to me to find out if this sort
of restoration can be done.

Thank you for your informative descriptions regarding
booting different operating systems on a Vista computer.
I am not there yet but I get lots of ideas from reading
your posts.

Cheers,

Solmoeban

PS I have not reviewed this post too tired and I am sending
now!

Its interesting that you got it all to work, but I always favor simplicity whenever you can find it. These guys make PC-Cillian, one of the least objectionable antivirus programs. Use their free online scan to clean out your system. Some viruses can disable your natively installed AV software. A free scan offers a good reality check.

http://housecall.trendmicro.com/

Here is another good idea for a new thread: What is your favorite flavor of Windows ??

For myself, I'd say 2000 Advanced Server.

Here is a reasonably priced Security Suite for it.

http://shop.mcafee.com/Products/Tota...lBusiness.aspx

Here is a reasonably priced Operating System CD for 2000 Advanced Server.

http://www.royaldiscount.com/wi20adsefuve.html

This link may be short lived. 10 licenses for $150

Of course you will need Disk Keeper Pro due to M$'s destructive file system.

Partition your hard drive this way with a Mepis Live CD.

Partition 1 M$ 22 gigabytes NTFS
M$ swap 1 gig
Linux swap 1 gig
Partition 4 ~17 gig reiser

Install the O/S like this.

1. Windows Server 2000
2. Simply Mepis 6.5.02

If Fedora 8 or SuSE 10.3 get along better with your hardware, use them instead of Mepis. (my first choice -- however) Test them all with live CDs

Use GRUB as a boot loader, installing it on the MBR.

Basically, If M$ built all of their stuff like they did for 2000 server, there would be only 1/2 as many Linux users in the world. It has been downhill for them ever since. Their only decent client is XP-64, which is ignored by everyone except for a few of the more intelligent gamers and 2 guys in Montana running Autocad.

How long does it take your bootloader to cycle through all of the selections? What is the size of your /boot directory ?

(Just curious)

Remember the KISS rule.

Yes: It IS OK to have a RAID I array with 3 mirrored 250 gigabyte drives + a spare in a box. If any 2 die, your still in business. When said and done, it must work.