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Old 06-09-2008, 04:22 AM   #1
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question: fedora9 = "too soon" ??? (for phenom 9850 / livna / updates / other)

I just upgraded my 2 computers [cases] with new motherboards, CPUs, memory, HDDs, etc. When I do this kind of major upgrade every 2~3 years, that's when I typically install a newer Linux OS (I will never "upgrade" my windoze machine beyond WindowsXP64 --- not ever). However, from my experience so far, and the messages on this [and other] fedora forums, I wonder what I should do. I'm looking for tips, advice, gotchas, warnings, you-tell-me.

I downloaded fedora9 DVD ISO, burned the DVD, then performed the install - which did run to completion (though the visible area of the display was extremely stretched horizontally). But that's where my problems began. After I booted the OS and entered "first time" info, I tried to update the 273 packages that the upgrader decided were "out of date". No luck. The package updater just crashes. Once it produced an error message, but I forgot to write it down. Sorry about that. When I tried to install livna, it reported I didn't have sufficiently high permissions or authority (or something to that effect). Funny, because I always run as "root", which typically avoids problems like this.

So, to make a short story long, should I just avoid fedora9 for now and reinstall fedora8, which is what I have been running for the past many months? As an alternative, I tried to boot up from my fedora8 HDD, but it was decidedly unhappy. Perhaps that's because my previous CPU was only one core (AMD Athlon64 3700+ 939-pin as I recall) and my new CPU has four cores (AMD Phenom 9850 Black Edition AM2+). I guess I cannot expect to boot a working fedora8 on a new MB/CPU can I? I didn't think so, but I decided to try anyway, since it took me quite a bit of time and effort to get fedora8 working for my 3D simulation engine development work. Actually, it took quite a bit of volunteer effort from several people in this forum too! Hopefully the gurus who hang around here now are just as helpful.

So, what's the advice (based upon my new system). The only items from my previous system are: case, power-supply, DVD-drive, 3D graphics board (i even replaced the fans!). The only boards installed in the motherboard are the 3D graphics board and the extra 2 gigabit ethernet ports (the motherboard has one 1Ge port). I will probably reconnect my two existing 250GB SATA2 drives once everything is running properly (but not yet). One is fedora8x32 (which I ran most of the time) and the other is fedora8x64 (which I will overwrite with either fedora9x64 or re-install fedora8x64 once I figure out what to do).

Thanks in advance for advice/feedback (especially all those non-obvious things I must do).

----- system specifications -----
MB = MSI K9A2 platinum 790FX (AM2+ motherboard specified by AMD for phenom)
CPU = AMD phenom x4 9850 black edition (not overclocked or fiddled - i never do that)
RAM = dual channel (2G+2G = 2 DDR2 boards) : skill DDR2-1066 F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK
3D video = XFX GF8600GT 540MB 512MB DDR2 TV DVI PCIe (nVidia GeForce 8600 GT)
ethernet = intel EXPI9402PTBLK dual GBT (an extra 2 gigabit ethernet ports)
HDD = seagate 1TB 7200rpm (ST31000340AS)
cooling = zalman CNPS9700LED cooler
power-supply = 750 watts
Old 06-09-2008, 01:22 PM   #2
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For a start, don't "always run as "root", which typically avoids problems like this." -- besides being a security risk chances are not all software runs fine; some programs were designed not to be run as root, and though you might never use them, it's still a chance.

If I were you, I would go trough HCL and other similar sources to make sure your new hardware pieces are "Linux-compliant", to find out if there are known problems with them. Then get on with Fedora 9 and work trough every problem one at a time, finding out what the reason is and fixing it; it's not magic, it's not secrecy, it's just working things trough. There is no good reason to run Fedora 8 instead of Fedora 9 except if the machine is a server you are not willing to upgrade, or if the new version simply does not run on your machine at all; updates for Fedora 8 will stop and that's not a good thing at all. Sort of like running Windows98 on your desktop instead of XP just because it's installation was easier.

Maybe you should do a fresh install of Fedora 9, log in as a regular user and start off from there. If you still have problems upgrading or installing something or using hardware or if you face lockups or something, describe the problems and try to find out the exact thing that's happening; if you instead just use root account for everything, don't be surprised if some things don't work as expected. And when finding out what some problem is caused by, one good way is to close off reasons until you only have one - and test if that's the thing. If you have problems in your graphical desktop, put it down and see how command line works (is it the graphical side of the system or not?); if you have problems with permissions, try another user (with different privileges, basic for a start), and so on.
Old 06-09-2008, 02:41 PM   #3
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Try a "re-spin". This usually has most of the updates installed so that the updates shouldn't be as big as 200+ packages...

Old 06-10-2008, 04:09 AM   #4
Registered: Dec 2007
Location: phobos, mars
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the root of all evil

Hey, to all those who kicked my butt because I ran as root to: install security updates, bug fixes, software upgrades and hardware drivers --- sorry.

Or am I? If you are telling me that normal everyday users of university/corporation/organization computers running linux can install security updates, bug fixes, software upgrades and hardware drivers --- then linux has become just as prone to disaster as windoze, and belongs on the same trashheap of software history as windoze.

I am honestly quite surprised to hear that regular users can do this. For all I know, macroshaft lovers have taken over linux development, in which case linux truly does belong on the trashheap of software history. While this might have happened, I tend to doubt it until I learn otherwise. When I do, it'll be interesting to learn what kind of chaos happens all over the world with linux computers - when every university student can change kernels, system software and hardware drivers that impact everyone. Wheeeeee, what fun places the universities must have become! Or not.
Old 06-10-2008, 04:30 AM   #5
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Come Fedora 9 too soon I do not know
I run them both Fedora 8 and Fedora 9
Fedora 9 has some strange things in the package manager but you can install every thing that is there if you knew the way
and when logout sometimes kde crash.
Another strange thing of Fedora 9 is when you ask for firefox you get the firefox 3 beta version.
About updating as root or not Well some distros ask for root password before updating and some user password the last I find it strange.

all the best
Old 06-10-2008, 11:02 AM   #6
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No, regular users cannot and should not be allowed to run update. You should also NOT be running as root. The generally advised process is to log on as a regular user and then run the the package manager. The package manager should ask for the root password(if running CLI use su - or sudo). The reason this is advised is that this way only one process has root permissions. If you log on as root EVERY process ran has root permissions. This makes the prescribed method MUCH more secure than logging in as root.
Old 06-10-2008, 04:18 PM   #7
Registered: Dec 2007
Location: phobos, mars
Distribution: 64-bit linux mint 18.1
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Hey lazlow, how ya doing? You helped me alot last time I got my neck in a linux noose! Since I just built myself two new systems, I hope you'll be around to help me out again.

To start, what's the solution to the update program wanting to update 587 security updates, then croaking because "kmod-sysproj" needs a different kernel than I have (sorry, that quoted name is from memory, might be slightly different). I tried to be clever and typed "yum upgrade kernel" in a terminal window, and it went through all the steps it normally does when it succeeds - and my kernel version (after reboots) is now a higher version than the one kmod-sysproj wanted. But I still get the same error when trying to accept the 587 updates. Since kmod-sysproj is not listed on the updater, I assume it is being installed because some item on the list depends upon it. The only thing I have done to my clean install (this is fedora8 now, until I decided to try fedora9 again on a different hard drive) is to install the livna (with rpm and yum), which seemed to work because now glxgears is about 1000 times faster.

To all: sorry about not having error messages. I really was trying to ask the general question in the subject line (for now), THEN decide whether to give fedora9 a more serious series of attempts (like it took for fedora8, with lots of help from lazlow and a couple other brave hardy souls). I did not mean to imply you should debug my failed attempts to install fedora9 - my comments were just to explain why I was asking the question in the subject line. I will be happy to copy down endless details - when that time arrives. I am still trying to figure out whether that time has arrived (for my hardware + fedora9).
Old 06-10-2008, 07:18 PM   #8
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Stiff, sore, fat, and old, but that is about normal for me.

Ok, I am not clear from the way you put this. Is this a fresh install of F8 (or F9)? Is this an update on the failed F9 install? After we find that out, we will need to know the full name of the offending kmod.

In general when you install (on RH or Fedora) the first thing you want to update is yum.

yum update yum

Occasionally there is something screwy with yum. If it is broke while you are trying to update the results are pretty much guaranteed to be bad.


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