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Old 11-02-2017, 07:36 AM   #1
jehonimo
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Fedora Updates not really free?


I've heard that Fedora is not really consistent with her updates in terms of keeping it open-source.
Can anybody here confirm it? Does it mean in spite of being advertised as one of the open-source-friendliest Linux distros it still shoves some propietary software later, through updates?

I'm asking because recently I have found that my laptop ( HP Probook 430 g4 with Fedora 26 ) wanted to update some HP printer drivers from Fedora Updates repository and I haven't even used an HP printer on this laptop ( only a Brother model ).

Last edited by jehonimo; 11-03-2017 at 12:20 PM.
 
Old 11-02-2017, 08:00 AM   #2
snowpine
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Are you referring to 'hplip' the HP Linux Imaging and Printing Project? Fedora includes this software because they want people to be able to use their HP printers and scanners. The intention is not malicious. Fedora is a "distribution" meaning a bundle of useful software.

You can read more about hplip here and decide whether or not it satisfies your personal standards of "open source": https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing
 
Old 11-02-2017, 08:02 AM   #3
jehonimo
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Yeah that's it. I found it weird since I don't even have an HP printer.
Plus I have heard about some unhealthy ways HP forces consumers to buy new printers through drivers
 
Old 11-02-2017, 08:03 AM   #4
jehonimo
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But back to the topic... Is there any propietary software in Fedora Updates repository?

Last edited by jehonimo; 11-02-2017 at 08:05 AM.
 
Old 11-02-2017, 08:26 AM   #5
snowpine
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It's not "weird" at all that Fedora includes bundled drivers for HP printers. Almost all Linux distributions include this hplip software, because it is very useful, and lots of users want it! There are a few exceptions of distributions where you install only exactly what you want; Arch Linux and Linux From Scratch come to mind. So if you prefer to have total control over what software gets installed on your system, there are plenty of methods to achieve that goal.

Anyway, Fedora has a Wiki page that describes in exact detail which software they include, and which software they don't include. I recommend you give it a read, and then come back if you have any questions after reading it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items

A relevant quote from that page:

Quote:
Fedora users and contributors frequently ask others in the community why certain items are not included in Fedora. This page is meant to provide some explanations for the most frequently requested exclusions.

The Fedora Project strongly encourages using free and open source software. Fedora has licensing guidelines that enforce the following requirements:

If it is proprietary, it cannot be included in Fedora. (Binary firmware is the only exception to this)
If it is legally encumbered, it cannot be included in Fedora.
If it violates United States laws (specifically, Federal or applicable state laws), it cannot be included in Fedora.

Last edited by snowpine; 11-03-2017 at 09:25 AM.
 
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:42 AM   #6
onebuck
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Moderator response

Moved: This thread is more suitable in <Fedora> and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.
 
Old 11-03-2017, 12:13 PM   #7
jehonimo
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Well, what really made me question Red Hat's transaparency is an article that I have found some time ago:
http://fossforce.com/2014/01/red-hat-working-nsa/
Where author admits:
Quote:
it’s true that Red Hat isn’t as transparent as they once were with patches
Even though he defends the company and debunks the rumour that Red Hat Linux might have NSA backdoor.
What made him say that? How is Red Hat not as transparent about patches as it once was?
Does it pertain only to Red Hat or can it also affect Fedora?

Last edited by jehonimo; 11-03-2017 at 12:27 PM.
 
Old 11-03-2017, 01:35 PM   #8
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehonimo View Post
Well, what really made me question Red Hat's transaparency is an article that I have found some time ago:
http://fossforce.com/2014/01/red-hat-working-nsa/
Where author admits:

Even though he defends the company and debunks the rumour that Red Hat Linux might have NSA backdoor.
What made him say that? How is Red Hat not as transparent about patches as it once was?
Does it pertain only to Red Hat or can it also affect Fedora?
The author of that article is named Christine Hall. I don't know what "made" her write those things in 2014. There is a link to her social media at the bottom of the article. If you are curious, you should contact Ms. Hall and ask her why she wrote the things she wrote.

Are you implying the HP Linux Imaging and Printing Project (hplip) is secret NSA spyware? Do you have any facts to support this claim?

Are you a Red Hat customer? Have you contacted them to voice your concerns?
 
Old 11-03-2017, 02:10 PM   #9
!!!
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Did you mean "libre"? Then, don't use Fedora!!! See DW...

Welcome to LQ!!! I think you may be thinking of 'libre'.
See DisrtoWatch category "Free software"

And click on LQsearch -office doesn't work to search Threads Titled libre,
e.g.: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...re-4175615716/

Let us know!!! p.s. Another link: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=169661

Last edited by !!!; 11-03-2017 at 02:28 PM.
 
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:51 PM   #10
John VV
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i believe the NSA backdoor thing with Fedora is that they were the first to use the NSA secured kernel
"SELinux"

the tech people at the NSA created that to keep OUT unwanted "bad guys"
and keep hacked code from doing anything it is not allowed to do

now in 2004 it was new and a pain sometimes

but now 13+ years later ... it "just works"
 
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:45 AM   #11
jehonimo
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So nobody knows what actually she meant? I don't know if it's apropriate to mail her about that after three years though.

Quote:
Are you implying the HP Linux Imaging and Printing Project (hplip) is secret NSA spyware? Do you have any facts to support this claim?

Are you a Red Hat customer? Have you contacted them to voice your concerns?
No, I'm not a Red Hat consumer. I use only Fedora and was simply voicing my concerns. I'm not an openSUSE troll, don't worry, if that's what you meant.

Last edited by jehonimo; 11-04-2017 at 11:48 AM.
 
Old 11-04-2017, 11:52 AM   #12
hazel
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Hplip is completely open-source. That's why all Linux distributions include it. Some probably put it in their package management system as a recommended package for use with cups because so many Linux users have HP printers. Maybe that's why Fedora installed it on your machine.

Unfortunately HP's marketing methods make rather a sham of their supposed enthusiasm for open-source software. All their modern printers have built-in firmware that stops the printer working after a while if you use non-oem cartridges.
 
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:09 PM   #13
hifi100
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I have installed Fedora 26 recently. Reading this thread I am feeling a bit worried. Is there any reason to worry ?
 
Old 11-09-2017, 06:18 PM   #14
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi100 View Post
I have installed Fedora 26 recently. Reading this thread I am feeling a bit worried. Is there any reason to worry ?
Yes, you should definitely be worried. It is a FACT that Fedora ships open source drivers for HP printers and scanners. If that sort of thing is unacceptable to you then run for the hills!
 
Old 11-09-2017, 06:27 PM   #15
hifi100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpine View Post
Yes, you should definitely be worried. It is a FACT that Fedora ships open source drivers for HP printers and scanners. If that sort of thing is unacceptable to you then run for the hills!
I am not bothered about the HP drivers I am asking about that article. I have installed Ubuntu 18.04. So don't bother.
 
  


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