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Old 01-26-2018, 07:08 PM   #46
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
How much of even Slackware's* kernel* is non-free, check your hardware?
That depends almost entirely on Linus and the Boys since Slackware uses a completely vanilla kernel with zero distro-specific patches.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 01:40 AM   #47
DVOM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I was unaware of Debian derivatives that are systemd-free but that's only one concern.
Bottom line is I like Debian quite a bit
You seem to want debian without systemd.

Yet you ignore any info about debian without systemd.

Good luck with that.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 05:30 AM   #48
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVOM View Post
You seem to want debian without systemd.

Yet you ignore any info about debian without systemd.

Good luck with that.
What? Debian states that it can officially run with SysVInit. How am I ignoring that? I just don't want some flash-in-the-pan derivative. Plus, I've already stated that after trying and not getting satisfactory results, I decided to keep systemd and see how it goes. Are you miffed because I don't want exactly what you want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Stones-Satisfaction
He can't be a man 'cuz he doesn't smoke
the same cigarettes as me
I can't get no....
 
Old 01-27-2018, 02:37 PM   #49
DVOM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Are you miffed because I don't want exactly what you want?
No, I'm not "miffed", I was confused because you said you wanted something specific and you've apparently decided against it. So have a great day.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 02:28 AM   #50
jamison20000e
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I've been using Debian for more than 15 years and Systemd hasn't affected me, unless that's why sid seems crash free these days...
 
Old 01-29-2018, 10:42 AM   #51
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
I've been using Debian for more than 15 years and Systemd hasn't affected me, unless that's why sid seems crash free these days...
I happen to agree that systemd has little effect on SOHO/Desktop systems, which actually makes me wonder why it was heartily adopted so nearly universally. The only effects I notice is that I prefer text files for configuration rather than binaries so that's sometimes more work or in the case of recovery, sometimes impossible and I am still uncertain what it takes to create a new "systemctl.foo.service" to load with each boot and that can be a pita. In SysVInit I can add a single obvious line to rc.local and I'm G2G.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 06:04 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
that's actually really easy to fix:
add
Code:
net.ifnames=0
to your linux command line (e.g. in grub).
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Thank you ondoho, that is constructive but I'd still like to know why, when I choose SysVInit any remnants of systemd need to exist at all, or perhaps more to the point, why anyone would choose to keep any around. Has the pervasiveness of systemd, or at least parts of it, advanced so far that it is becoming essential to even distros that still offer the SysVInit alternative? IMHO that would be a rather serious mistake since I am confidant that much of what some complain about with Linux, the plethora of diversity, is a major part of it's strength and vitality. It comes at a cost, naturally, but seems a net gain to me.
The "remnant" in question is actually udev.

Debian, with sysvinit installed is actually still full of a lot of systemd cruft and systemd is dragged back in and still runs, though not as PID 1, if you install something like gnome. As the distribution is not being developed to avoid it, it's understandable.

So if you don't want systemd, Debian isn't really a viable distribution (unless you enjoy setting up all your own apt pinning and constantly fighting to keep it). To avoid it entirely and keep using Debian, you'd need to rebuild a lot of packages - what some of the derivatives have done.

Last edited by cynwulf; 01-30-2018 at 06:05 AM.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 12:00 PM   #53
enorbet
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Thank you, cynwulf, I hadn't checked to see if "udev" had been replaced with "eudev" so that makes perfect, though regrettable, sense. It appears it was possibly the safer decision for me to go back to systemd on Debian. I don't understand that compulsion to adopt systemd on SOHO/Desktop systems but at least for the time being that isn't a big deal. It could get to be a big deal but it isn't just yet, unlike Pulseaudio for some, including me. Thankfully Debian reverted to ALSA easily and with no problems.... yet. Firefox may one day soon change that unless "apulse" can "up it's game".
 
Old 01-30-2018, 12:52 PM   #54
andre@home
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Red face Where is the TS... ?

Where is the TS... ?
One single reaction on all the input is poor....
If you want a living interaction... you should "be here" and be active, give feedback on what others experienced and were willing to share with you .....
Now it looks as the other 1001+ threads of only listing things, with people who contribute and do not get anything back....
 
Old 01-30-2018, 01:06 PM   #55
redfox2807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andre@home View Post
Where is the TS... ?
One single reaction on all the input is poor....
If you want a living interaction... you should "be here" and be active, give feedback on what others experienced and were willing to share with you .....
Now it looks as the other 1001+ threads of only listing things, with people who contribute and do not get anything back....
Never mind, the thread had turned into another Systemd 2 minutes hate anyway.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 04:15 PM   #56
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
Never mind, the thread had turned into another Systemd 2 minutes hate anyway.
Wow! If you consider any conversation about the values and shortcomings of anything as "hatred' you may possibly need a thicker skin or at least a more open mind. Honestly it was not my intention to upset anyone and I thought not only my words but my choice of action demonstrated that. Oh well.
 
Old 01-31-2018, 01:23 AM   #57
ondoho
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^ previous 3 posters:

1. depending on your definition of hate. in some languages it is weighted differently, less emoyionally, than others.
2. op came back only once to say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nejnej25 View Post
Hi guys, who else use Antyx here? Is it good? Just want to try some distro that is system-d free. Thanks!
after that this thread drifted in a very predictable direction.
i agree that it is rather pointless to have yet another systemd discussion, but there is no problem.
 
Old 01-31-2018, 01:50 AM   #58
redfox2807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Wow! If you consider any conversation about the values and shortcomings of anything as "hatred' you may possibly need a thicker skin or at least a more open mind. Honestly it was not my intention to upset anyone and I thought not only my words but my choice of action demonstrated that. Oh well.
I don't care about any conversations in an appropriate place. The problem with conversations about systemd 'values and shortcomings' as I see it, is that they appear wherever there is a mention of systemd or any distro using it. No matter that the initial topic has nothing to do with systemd at all.

Btw. I didn't interrupt your conversation. I just stated that it's pretty pointless to expect the topic starter to follow the thread as the disscussion's gone to somewhere else but discussing why we prefer Debian to other distros. So it's definitely not the matter of _my_ skin thickness or how open _my_ mind is.
 
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:17 AM   #59
Lysander666
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It's such a shame that when there is mention of Debian there is often mention of systemd. And it's a shame that it's such a contentious issue. The Debian forums are replete with examples of it, even today, threads about systemd go into multiple pages. It's tiring and repetitive and goes round in circles. Such a fascinating distro, but its forums always carry multiple instances of in-fighting over this init system [OK, it's more than an init system]. I'm glad the Slackware board hasn't suffered this fate.
 
Old 01-31-2018, 08:33 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Thank you, cynwulf, I hadn't checked to see if "udev" had been replaced with "eudev" so that makes perfect, though regrettable, sense.
eudev is gentoo's fork of udev, I'm not sure who (except) gentoo has adopted it, but can't see any mention of it in Debian repositories.
 
  


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