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Old 04-03-2009, 01:30 PM   #1
kushalkoolwal
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Two flavors of Debian kernels for 64-bit machines?


I always thought that the package linux-image-<kernel-version>-amd64 can be used for all Intel and AMD 64-bit machines as mentioned here.

However upon visiting the above link if you scroll down you will find two links to the kernel:
amd64
i386

I always thought that suffix "i386" always referred to 32-bit Intel and AMD machines. Now I am a bit confused. All these years I simply use to do:

Code:
apt-get install linux-image-<kernel-version>-amd64
no matter if I had Intel or AMD machines.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 03:14 PM   #2
David the H.
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Yes, you're correct about the 386 label being for 32 bit architecture. I'm not sure either why they offer that package on the page, but my guess is that it's there simply because AMD64 cpus are also able to run 32bit kernels. In any case, you shouldn't have to worry about it because apt should ensure that you have the proper kernel installed. Just keep doing what you've been doing and you'll be fine.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 03:17 PM   #3
kushalkoolwal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David the H. View Post
Just keep doing what you've been doing and you'll be fine.
Yes, I have been doing that but as a end user of Debian for over 3 years now, I am curious and I would like to know why it is that way.

Thank you for your reply.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 03:21 PM   #4
alan_ri
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x86-64.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 03:25 PM   #5
kushalkoolwal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_ri View Post
Yeah I have seen that before. But what are you referring to?
 
Old 04-03-2009, 03:34 PM   #6
alan_ri
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There are diffs between these two processors,that's why there is i386 and AMD64 images.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 03:40 PM   #7
kushalkoolwal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_ri View Post
There are diffs between these two processors
You mean there are differences between Intel 64-bit and AMD 64-bit processors?
 
Old 04-03-2009, 03:48 PM   #8
alan_ri
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Yes,also between them too.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 04:02 PM   #9
AlucardZero
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This is news, since when do Intel x86_64 processors not use the amd64 kernel?
 
Old 04-03-2009, 04:10 PM   #10
kushalkoolwal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_ri View Post
Yes,also between them too.
I think we are getting confused here. My question was not about i386 (32-bit) and amd64 (64-bit) images.

My question was that there are two flavors i386 and amd64 INSIDE the amd64 category which kind of contradicts for the terminology used. Do you see what I am trying to say?

Also I may be ignorant and hence I am not able to understand what you are referring to. May be you already understood my question correctly and I may be having trouble to understand your answer.

Thanks
 
Old 04-03-2009, 04:11 PM   #11
alan_ri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlucardZero View Post
This is news, since when do Intel x86_64 processors not use the amd64 kernel?
Who said they can't use it?
 
Old 04-03-2009, 04:25 PM   #12
alan_ri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kushalkoolwal View Post
I think we are getting confused here. My question was not about i386 (32-bit) and amd64 (64-bit) images.

My question was that there are two flavors i386 and amd64 INSIDE the amd64 category which kind of contradicts for the terminology used. Do you see what I am trying to say?

Also I may be ignorant and hence I am not able to understand what you are referring to. May be you already understood my question correctly and I may be having trouble to understand your answer.

Thanks
There's a reason why there are two flavors inside the AMD64 directory and I already provided a link that can explain why is that so.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 04:37 PM   #13
johnsfine
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AMD's x86_64 is different from Intel's x86_64, but the difference is pretty subtle and I've never heard of a compiler or OS kernel build trying to use anything within that difference.

So far as I understand, "AMD64" as the architecture version for any software means "x86_64" and equal compatibility to both Intel x86_64 and AMD x86_64.

Like the OP, I really can't tell what alan_ri is saying in this thread.

I think alan_ri is saying the AMD64 and i386 versions on that page are both 64 bit and the difference between them is the difference between AMD x86_64 and Intel x86_64.

I don't know enough about Debian to be absolutely certain that is false. But I am certain it would be insane if true. The difference between Intel x86_64 and AMD x86_64 is too subtle to be worth compiling the kernel differently and the name "i386" would be insane to use on x86_64 software.

Last edited by johnsfine; 04-03-2009 at 04:39 PM.
 
Old 04-03-2009, 05:03 PM   #14
kushalkoolwal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsfine View Post
The difference between Intel x86_64 and AMD x86_64 is too subtle to be worth compiling the kernel differently and the name "i386" would be insane to use on x86_64 software.
Yes johnsfine couldn't agree more with you. I think you exactly understood what I am trying to say. The reality is that they are using "i386" names in 64-bit kernel package and that's what surprises me.
 
Old 04-04-2009, 02:52 AM   #15
alan_ri
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I'll try to make clear what I mean.
You can have i386,x86-64 and AMD64 and etc,but your processor is for example x86 and you want more from it,then you use AMD64 kernel,you maybe recompile it to suit your needs or whatever,so that's why there is i386 there,because you're able to use AMD64 on i386 with features from x86-64 if you like.If you look at the list of files you'll see a line like this for example:
Code:
/lib/modules/2.6.26-1-amd64/kernel/arch/x86/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-centrino.ko
Wich speaks for itself I believe.
You won't see this with Ubuntu,why,because they only provide single image for 32 bit instruction set and for 64 bit,but on a Debian's dvd you have both worlds and you can choose during installation what kernel on certain architecture you will use.
To make a long story short; you can use a 64 bit kernel in a completely 32 bit userland.

Last edited by alan_ri; 04-04-2009 at 02:58 AM.
 
  


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