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Old 05-14-2009, 10:08 PM   #16
parent's_basement
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Gdebi is for installing local .debs and Synaptic (GUI frontend for dpkg) installs remote .debs.

-pb
 
Old 05-15-2009, 05:27 AM   #17
t2000kw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parent's_basement View Post
Another drawback especially for beginners, is that if everything "just works" you aren't challenged with as many learning opportunities. Most of my knowledge of Linux and Unix has come about because I've had to figure out how to do something unfamiliar- these are golden opportunities that may be missed if everything is done for you.
I agree, but the downside is that most who give it a try will just give up and go back to the MAC or Windows.

It's one of those issues that come with flexibility and power. I learned a lot when getting Ubuntu set up to my preferences but I have a friend who is on the development team and is willing to help when I need it.

It would be great if there was a distribution that would work perfectly "out of the box" for those who never tired Linux. But even Windows needs customization, and I would guess that the MAC wold also, though probably less so than Windows. I would like to see more people make the jump to Linux and put some pressure on Microsoft to not only make things more compatible between operating systems, but also drop their unreasonably high prices, and make their operating systems work properly. I haven't had Windows Update work for a long time, and Microsoft can't even figure it out! Fortunately, I am careful and use security and privacy tools. I also don't open email attachments unless I either scan them or am expecting them, and use a non-free, non-Microsoft email program when using Windows (Agent), which I also use in Linux using Crossover Office.

We may soon see that near-perfect "beginner's" Linux distro. We're getting close, I think.

Donald
 
Old 05-15-2009, 08:22 AM   #18
parent's_basement
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Hi Donald,

You're right. The learning curve can definitely be a thwart to many new users. I believe Ubuntu, Mandravia and Linux Mint to probably be the best options for people migrating over. They then have the option to either learn more or not. Being a Linux user shouldn't require that you become a hacker as well but its great that the opportunity is there. BTW- what other distros have you tried? Have you tried any of the BSDs?

-pb
 
Old 05-15-2009, 09:20 AM   #19
Much Ado
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I sometimes find wajig useful:

Code:
wajig whichpkg /path/to/file
Tells you which package a file belongs to.

Code:
wajig listfiles package-name
Lists files contained in a package - especially useful for cheating at 'guess the binary name'.

I daresay the above can be done with dpkg etc, but I find wajig more easily discoverable.
 
Old 05-15-2009, 07:49 PM   #20
62chevy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Much Ado View Post
I sometimes find wajig useful:

Code:
wajig whichpkg /path/to/file
Tells you which package a file belongs to.

Code:
wajig listfiles package-name
Lists files contained in a package - especially useful for cheating at 'guess the binary name'.

I daresay the above can be done with dpkg etc, but I find wajig more easily discoverable.

Cool just found a new tool to use. I like the gjig front end very nice.

Thanks
 
Old 05-16-2009, 05:05 AM   #21
radiodee1
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I've read on these forums that switching between aptitude and apt-get is just a little more complex. What I've read is that if you're using aptitude and you want to switch to apt-get there's no problem, you just go ahead and use apt-get, BUT when (if)you're switching from apt-get to aptitude, the first thing you should do is execute the command aptitude keep-all. This fixes the aptitude data base, which is different from the apt-get data base. Why, you ask? I'm not sure but I think aptitude will try to remove things incorrectly if you aptitude remove <packagename> after that point. It will try to remove more than it should. That's my impression any way. I myself use aptitude pretty exclusively. On occasion I used apt-get to download some source packages, and then used "keep-all" and everything seems to work well now.
 
Old 05-16-2009, 07:32 AM   #22
t2000kw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parent's_basement View Post
BTW- what other distros have you tried? Have you tried any of the BSDs?

-pb
I don't remember which ones I tried, but I tried a few of the live CDs, and one I actually installed. I was not successful at getting my wireless connection recognized.

Also the related Usenet newsgroups are anything but friendly and helpful. This alone may keep the BSDs from becoming popular among the masses.

That's not to say I couldn't get it installed, just that it wasn't useful to me at all "out of the box." I've received much better help here and in the Ubuntu forums.

I have tried Linux Mint and a couple of others. I settled on Ubuntu because it appealed to me the most and was still "hackable" if I wanted to go deeper into it. And Linux in general seems to have useful hep forums for the various distributions, which makes up for the OS being a little less friendly than Windows and the MAC.

Donald
 
Old 05-16-2009, 02:31 PM   #23
JackieBrown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t2000kw View Post
Ubuntu is Debian-based, sort of Debian on steroids.
I see Ubuntu more as Debian on a McDonald's diet.
 
Old 05-16-2009, 06:02 PM   #24
hw-tph
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apt is the package manager, and aptitude, apt-get and synaptic are all frontends for the package manager. You won't break your system by sometimes using one frontend and sometimes another. However, it should be noted that official Debian opinion is that aptitude is the preferred frontend (and has been for quite some time now). But like I said, using apt-get now and then won't break your system.

Refer to the Debian documentation if you want to know more: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/re...ackage.en.html

Håkan
 
Old 05-17-2009, 06:46 PM   #25
t2000kw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieBrown View Post
I see Ubuntu more as Debian on a McDonald's diet.
I can see that it's bloated quite a bit. [Insert fat smiley here in your imagination] But compared to Windows, it's pretty lean, I think. I'm primarily a Windows person, because that's what we have to use at work and because of that, I am most used to it (also having been a beta tester of their OS in the development cycle from NT 3.1 through XP). But I find using Linux to be like a vacation sometimes, allowing me to explore and learn new things. And I am using it more and more as it has matured and become better at hardware support, and as hardware manufacturers become more aware of the Linux community and start supporting their hardware with drivers. Canon multi-function printers comes to mind here, but you have to to to the European and Australian Canon support web sites to find drivers!

I've played with different GUIs like KDE, Enlightenment, and some others but I keep going back to the Gnome interface.

I don't enable the fancy windowing stuff (Compiz?) because it doesn't do anything functional, at least not in my eyes. I figure that all that takes some system overhead, and when I did try it, and I didn't notice any slowdown, it might be noticeable if I was actually doing something CPU-intensive.

For me, Ubuntu has more to offer out of the box. I'm sure as I learn more about what's underneath the OS I might change my mind and ust take Debian and customize it to suit my needs. For now, though, it doesn't take much customization of Ubuntu to suit me.

I haven't tried Red Hat or SuSE lately, or any other distro except perhaps Linux Mint a year or two ago.

Has anyone here tried a lot of these and done some comparisons between them? I know personal bias will come into play but I'm just curious. (This is probably something I should post in a separate thread somewhere here.)

Donald

Last edited by t2000kw; 05-17-2009 at 06:48 PM.
 
Old 05-17-2009, 07:58 PM   #26
Telemachos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hw-tph View Post
apt is the package manager, and aptitude, apt-get and synaptic are all frontends for the package manager. You won't break your system by sometimes using one frontend and sometimes another. However, it should be noted that official Debian opinion is that aptitude is the preferred frontend (and has been for quite some time now). But like I said, using apt-get now and then won't break your system.
As of Lenny, apt-get, aptitude and synaptic play pretty well together. (It wasn't always the case.) However, your post above is a bit of an oversimplication. The different tools work with APT differently, and so you can get some awfully surprising results from switching back and forth. At the very least, the default on one isn't always the default on another.

Two quick examples:
  1. apt-get upgrade will never install new packages - it only upgrades items currently installed, but aptitude safe-upgrade will now install new packages under certain conditions.
  2. apt-get prompts you to autoremove items that are auto-installed dependencies of packages that have been removed, but aptitude immediately removes them.
So, yes, you can use more than one, but you should do so carefully and after careful research into how they all work. (Of course, you should do the careful research even if you only use one of them, too.)

Last edited by Telemachos; 05-20-2009 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Fixed typo - thanks Jalu
 
  


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