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Old 12-10-2008, 11:26 PM   #16
Hern_28
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Another interesting post.


Sorry got to looking around and found this link as well:

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/11...endrive-linux/

That might also be useful.
 
Old 12-14-2008, 05:45 PM   #17
frenchn00b
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I even tried the floppies of the etch
and after root disk, it says:

no enough ram to proceed
soo wooody, but how ??
 
Old 12-14-2008, 05:46 PM   #18
frenchn00b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hern_28 View Post
Sorry got to looking around and found this link as well:

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/11...endrive-linux/

That might also be useful.
not working cuz there is not USB boot with that old pc
I am stuck

Wanna Deeebiina
 
Old 12-14-2008, 05:50 PM   #19
frenchn00b
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Can I use this technique maybe ?
http://www.debian.org/releases/stabl...h04s05.html.en

I format the disk into fat32, use a windows cdrom bootable to put those files, no?
 
Old 12-14-2008, 06:06 PM   #20
frenchn00b
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DLS no way

cuz i dont have USB
my cdrom is broken
i have only an external USB2IDE cdrom reader
and the floppy disks arent showing root.img


Damn it looks impossible to install linux


Code:
For some older or otherwise unique computer systems, it is not possible to boot up DSL directly from the livecd CD-R disk or from a USB pendrive.

    * For the CD-R disk, some computer BIOS do not support booting from a CDROM drive or they cannot boot from a non-standard CDROM drive like a parallel port drive or a pcmcia CDROM drive. 

    * For the USB pendrive, most computers that were manufactured before 2001 have an older BIOS that does not support direct booting from a USB device. 

However, it is still possible to boot up DSL if you make the right boot floppy disk.

First, go to the DSL download site [1] and download the appropriate floppy image file:

     bootfloppy.img

or

     bootfloppy-usb.img 

If you are already using linux, you can easily create the boot floppy disk with this command:

     dd if=bootfloppy.img of=/dev/fd0

However, if you are using Windows, please download and unzip the RawWrite for Windows bootfloppy creation program here:

     http://www.chrysocome.net/rawwrite

And then open the rawwrite.exe file (in the location that you unzipped) to select the bootfloppy.img file and create a boot floppy disk. Make sure that you have the formatted floppy disk inserted because the creation will begin suddenly with no confirmations.

If your boot floppy does not work, try using a different or newer floppy disk. Even a single bad sector on a floppy disk can prevent DSL from booting up.

Once you have your boot floppy working, the following command is required at the boot prompt in order to boot the USB pendrive:

     dsl fromusb     

To boot from CD, the command is :

     dsl fromcd

You may append whatever additional cheat codes you wish.
[edit]
Alternative Poorman's Install

Finally, if your CDROM drive is still not found by DSL upon bootup and you are using DOS/Windows 95/98/98SE/Windows ME, it is still possible to use DSL.

First, boot up with your old operating system.

Second, insert the DSL livecd disk.

Third, copy the \KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX file over to C:\KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX

NOTE THAT YOU SHOULD USE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS FOR THE DIR NAME AND FILE NAME

Fourth, reboot your computer using the DSL boot floppy.

It should find the "KNOPPIX" file on your hard drive and boot into DSL. This is known as a "Poorman's Install" of DSL to your hard drive with boot floppy.

Note that this will probably not work with Windows NT/2000/XP, since they use the NTFS file system on the hard disk.

Note that if you intend to actually install DSL as Debian onto your harddrive for releases after and including 2.0, you should also copy the \boot\ tree to C:\boot\ (with older versions of DSL, copy \KNOPPIX\boot\ tree to C:\KNOPPIX\boot\ instead), as the harddrive installation process attempts to copy the kernel off of the 'CD'. Versions 1.5 and older only require the additional \KNOPPIX\boot.img to be copied to C:\KNOPPIX\boot.img, but why would you be using an older version of DSL anyway?
[edit]
See also
 
Old 12-14-2008, 06:14 PM   #21
frenchn00b
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Is there a poorman install for woody with a kernel 2.4.-31 kernel ??

I got on bootdisk.com a floppy disk, basically http://s93616405.onlinehome.us/bootdisk/win98sc.zip
that has some fdisk (well I hope) that can create a fat32 in my harddisk
and then try to find dos drivers for my usb2IDE cdrom

damn seems impossible

Code:
 Alternative Poorman's Install

Finally, if your CDROM drive is still not found by DSL upon bootup and you are using DOS/Windows 95/98/98SE/Windows ME, it is still possible to use DSL.

First, boot up with your old operating system.

Second, insert the DSL livecd disk.

Third, copy the \KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX file over to C:\KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX

NOTE THAT YOU SHOULD USE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS FOR THE DIR NAME AND FILE NAME

Fourth, reboot your computer using the DSL boot floppy.

It should find the "KNOPPIX" file on your hard drive and boot into DSL. This is known as a "Poorman's Install" of DSL to your hard drive with boot floppy.

Note that this will probably not work with Windows NT/2000/XP, since they use the NTFS file system on the hard disk.

Note that if you intend to actually install DSL as Debian onto your harddrive for releases after and including 2.0, you should also copy the \boot\ tree to C:\boot\ (with older versions of DSL, copy \KNOPPIX\boot\ tree to C:\KNOPPIX\boot\ instead), as the harddrive installation process attempts to copy the kernel off of the 'CD'. Versions 1.5 and older only require the additional \KNOPPIX\boot.img to be copied to C:\KNOPPIX\boot.img, but why would you be using an older version of DSL anyway?

Last edited by frenchn00b; 09-05-2009 at 05:03 AM.
 
Old 12-14-2008, 06:44 PM   #22
Hern_28
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On my previous link:

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/11...endrive-linux/

you can use a grub floppy to boot pendrive linux.
 
Old 12-14-2008, 11:56 PM   #23
JimBass
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Distribution: Debian Sid 2.6.32
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As mentioned previously, you do NOT under nearly any reason want to install an old version of Debian. About the only reason you would do something like that would be to test compatibility with a new app. Trying to install an old, unsupported debian won't help you.

Here is how I would do this. http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/.../msg01083.html

If the computer has windows on it, you can go the the website mentioned in the post above ( http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ ) and install debian completely without any media, which sounds ideal for your case. You'll get etch I believe if you do it currently, lenny if you do it after its release. As mentioned above, the low RAM will make KDE or Gnome crawl, so you'll want the lighter DEs. Go with the most minimal install. All you want is a kernel and wired networking. Wait till the system is up at the command line only to install your wireless and desktop environment.

Again, you don't want to play with an ancient Debian (potato, woody, sarge) as you won't be able to use package managers (apt-get, aptitude), and won't be able to get drivers functional for almost anything from the last few years. Try the site if windows runs, try and install any windows (even 3.1 should probably do it) just to get to goodbye-microsoft.com.

Peace,
JimBass
 
Old 12-15-2008, 12:28 AM   #24
frenchn00b
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Distribution: Debian, Etch, the greatest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBass View Post
As mentioned previously, you do NOT under nearly any reason want to install an old version of Debian. About the only reason you would do something like that would be to test compatibility with a new app. Trying to install an old, unsupported debian won't help you.

Here is how I would do this. http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/.../msg01083.html

If the computer has windows on it, you can go the the website mentioned in the post above ( http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ ) and install debian completely without any media, which sounds ideal for your case. You'll get etch I believe if you do it currently, lenny if you do it after its release. As mentioned above, the low RAM will make KDE or Gnome crawl, so you'll want the lighter DEs. Go with the most minimal install. All you want is a kernel and wired networking. Wait till the system is up at the command line only to install your wireless and desktop environment.

Again, you don't want to play with an ancient Debian (potato, woody, sarge) as you won't be able to use package managers (apt-get, aptitude), and won't be able to get drivers functional for almost anything from the last few years. Try the site if windows runs, try and install any windows (even 3.1 should probably do it) just to get to goodbye-microsoft.com.

Peace,
JimBass
T H A N K Y O U

Cuz I started to lost any hopes. I used http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ and it crashes I get an error message. It's so much poorman, I cant believe.
(After this http://goodbye-microsoft.com/screenshots/1b.png, it crashes)

there was so much developers working with debian, so debian should be a good choice compared to little distro that are made by 1 or 2 coders. right ? And I want debian, cuz it is very good distro (the best certainly distro for me)

But concerning woody, there is still this for apt-get:
http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/Debian-3.0/
where we can change/modify a little bit the apt-get
security updates should be fine, cuz linux hadnt that much holes (if i am right?)

Well ... I wanted pidgin/gaim and possibly wifi. that's all I needed.
Woody seems that the lib are good for me to compile a new kernel 2.4.X something, by luck. I can compile 2.6.X kernels, well still without modules for the moments.

Last edited by frenchn00b; 12-15-2008 at 12:45 AM.
 
Old 12-15-2008, 01:23 AM   #25
JimBass
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Distribution: Debian Sid 2.6.32
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No sir, you are misunderstanding.

When a new stable of Debian is released, the previous stable becomes old-stable. It is just what it sounds like, even older software than stable, and stable is far too old for a desktop IMHO. In any case, the previous version stays in old-stable for 12 months. As Etch is now more than a year old, the previous old-stable, Sarge, has been deader than a doornail for some months now. All old-stable gets is security updates. No new software or functionality is ever introduced. Woody is the generation of Debian before Sarge, and Sarge is already past end-of-life. No security, no anything. Woody gets no updates of any kind.

Now yes, if you manage to install Woody, you could just set the sources.lst to stable or testing and update/dist-upgrade the whole thing, but why do you assume the problem lies in the installer? The kernel has grown, and as far as I know, all the detection and drivers in the original Sarge kernel (2.4.27) would still be in Etch with 2.6.18 and Lenny with 2.6.24. It is possible they drop drivers for older hardware, but I don't think so.

For such a high post count, you seem to be making a few beginner mistakes here - first people have asked for the drive size, and you haven't told us. Is it possible you have a drive with less than a gigabyte of space, or has windows filled the partitions? Also, you tell us you got an error with the install and it crashed - I know catching crashes is half art and half luck, but what happened? Did it go to a blue screen of death, do you get a kernel panic from the installer? Also, if the graphical installer failed, did you try the text installer? If it is an old video card, it is quite possible the graphical installer won't work.

As to the security holes question, you're very far off the mark. There have been thousands of security holes in linux. The difference is since it is predominantly open source, people see the holes and correct them. Windows can claim fewer security holes than linux, because without the source, how do you know if a hole exists? Also, as developers seem to take an active role in their linux apps, when somebody finds a hole in any linux app, the people responsible tend to drink their caffeine of choice and get to the keyboard ASAP. The number of exploitable linux holes is low, both because of a vastly superior security setup (permissions) and quick fixes of problems. Norton antivirus might be the worst piece of code in the world, but unless somebody can find and publish a hole, the makers of Norton will claim it is flawless. Welcome to corporate America!

So please publish the specs on the drive - how big is it, how much free space does it have? If space is the issue, kill some of the windows folders and see if you can clear space. You can probably find the needed specs on the goodbye-microsoft.com page. Also, if you're able to ascertain where the crash is coming from (is it windows, or the linux installer, probably windows, linux doesn't start until you reboot), let us know. Specifically, try and capture the error message. Dropping that into google or posting it here will probably help you out.

Peace,
JimBass
 
Old 12-15-2008, 11:43 PM   #26
frenchn00b
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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: E.U., Mountains :-)
Distribution: Debian, Etch, the greatest
Posts: 2,546

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBass View Post
No sir, you are misunderstanding.

When a new stable of Debian is released, the previous stable becomes old-stable. It is just what it sounds like, even older software than stable, and stable is far too old for a desktop IMHO. In any case, the previous version stays in old-stable for 12 months. As Etch is now more than a year old, the previous old-stable, Sarge, has been deader than a doornail for some months now. All old-stable gets is security updates. No new software or functionality is ever introduced. Woody is the generation of Debian before Sarge, and Sarge is already past end-of-life. No security, no anything. Woody gets no updates of any kind.

Now yes, if you manage to install Woody, you could just set the sources.lst to stable or testing and update/dist-upgrade the whole thing, but why do you assume the problem lies in the installer? The kernel has grown, and as far as I know, all the detection and drivers in the original Sarge kernel (2.4.27) would still be in Etch with 2.6.18 and Lenny with 2.6.24. It is possible they drop drivers for older hardware, but I don't think so.

For such a high post count, you seem to be making a few beginner mistakes here - first people have asked for the drive size, and you haven't told us. Is it possible you have a drive with less than a gigabyte of space, or has windows filled the partitions? Also, you tell us you got an error with the install and it crashed - I know catching crashes is half art and half luck, but what happened? Did it go to a blue screen of death, do you get a kernel panic from the installer? Also, if the graphical installer failed, did you try the text installer? If it is an old video card, it is quite possible the graphical installer won't work.

As to the security holes question, you're very far off the mark. There have been thousands of security holes in linux. The difference is since it is predominantly open source, people see the holes and correct them. Windows can claim fewer security holes than linux, because without the source, how do you know if a hole exists? Also, as developers seem to take an active role in their linux apps, when somebody finds a hole in any linux app, the people responsible tend to drink their caffeine of choice and get to the keyboard ASAP. The number of exploitable linux holes is low, both because of a vastly superior security setup (permissions) and quick fixes of problems. Norton antivirus might be the worst piece of code in the world, but unless somebody can find and publish a hole, the makers of Norton will claim it is flawless. Welcome to corporate America!

So please publish the specs on the drive - how big is it, how much free space does it have? If space is the issue, kill some of the windows folders and see if you can clear space. You can probably find the needed specs on the goodbye-microsoft.com page. Also, if you're able to ascertain where the crash is coming from (is it windows, or the linux installer, probably windows, linux doesn't start until you reboot), let us know. Specifically, try and capture the error message. Dropping that into google or posting it here will probably help you out.

Peace,
JimBass
Wow. Thank you very much. I read it like prophety, and discovered/learned/understood important things, about linux/windows. You are soo right! I never thought about this corporate america, and norton that no one owns the code. So right. It's amazing how one can lie just for commercial purposes. I am gonna prepare you a more complete review of the bugs/crashes,when I am more at home. The harddrive is as follows:
4gb, partitioned: /dev/sda1 at the end of 1200gb something with windows98SE and then at the beginning of the driver there is lot of dead clusters, hence I planned to install linux (Sarge hasnt bad cluster detect in installer). Funny thing, that windows98 hasnt drivers for my usb pendrive and cdrom IDE2USB (I cant find the cdrom back)
I'll post the next, to be continued, very soon (1 or 2 days I hope).
thanks again!!

Last edited by frenchn00b; 12-15-2008 at 11:45 PM.
 
Old 12-16-2008, 01:13 AM   #27
JimBass
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: New York City
Distribution: Debian Sid 2.6.32
Posts: 2,100

Rep: Reputation: 49
No problem, I'm glad to help.

Something you may want to look at would be the BIOS. If the case of the machine has USB slots, older hardware might not be able to boot from USB drives, but it should at least detect them. I could see Win98 failing to have drivers for a DVD writer, but a plain USB cdrom I would think would be fine. If you poke around in BIOS, you may succeed in finding a boot order that has a USB drive option. You also may have the option of getting an old CDRom and the IDE cable for less than 20 euro. I completely understand if you don't want to spend any money on the machine, but you may well be able to get the boot fixed for relatively little money. It is also possible the hardware itself (the motherboard, the IDE slot) is damaged. If the drive itself has issues, you could replace the drive with a very small (4 Gb, 8 Gb, or 80 Gb if you choose).

Peace,
JimBass
 
Old 09-05-2009, 04:59 AM   #28
frenchn00b
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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: E.U., Mountains :-)
Distribution: Debian, Etch, the greatest
Posts: 2,546

Original Poster
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I found Damn Small Linux !!
they made it based on woody, that s great.

you install it, and then click into tools:

upgrade to woody
upgrade to busybox -> normal box

and you have the DEBIAN WOODY, from their archives US. fantastic no?

all programs of debian in an old pc
 
Old 09-05-2009, 05:07 AM   #29
frenchn00b
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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: E.U., Mountains :-)
Distribution: Debian, Etch, the greatest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchn00b View Post
DLS no way

cuz i dont have USB
my cdrom is broken
i have only an external USB2IDE cdrom reader
and the floppy disks arent showing root.img


Damn it looks impossible to install linux


Code:
For some older or otherwise unique computer systems, it is not possible to boot up DSL directly from the livecd CD-R disk or from a USB pendrive.

    * For the CD-R disk, some computer BIOS do not support booting from a CDROM drive or they cannot boot from a non-standard CDROM drive like a parallel port drive or a pcmcia CDROM drive. 

    * For the USB pendrive, most computers that were manufactured before 2001 have an older BIOS that does not support direct booting from a USB device. 

However, it is still possible to boot up DSL if you make the right boot floppy disk.

First, go to the DSL download site [1] and download the appropriate floppy image file:

     bootfloppy.img

or

     bootfloppy-usb.img 

If you are already using linux, you can easily create the boot floppy disk with this command:

     dd if=bootfloppy.img of=/dev/fd0

However, if you are using Windows, please download and unzip the RawWrite for Windows bootfloppy creation program here:

     http://www.chrysocome.net/rawwrite

And then open the rawwrite.exe file (in the location that you unzipped) to select the bootfloppy.img file and create a boot floppy disk. Make sure that you have the formatted floppy disk inserted because the creation will begin suddenly with no confirmations.

If your boot floppy does not work, try using a different or newer floppy disk. Even a single bad sector on a floppy disk can prevent DSL from booting up.

Once you have your boot floppy working, the following command is required at the boot prompt in order to boot the USB pendrive:

     dsl fromusb     

To boot from CD, the command is :

     dsl fromcd

You may append whatever additional cheat codes you wish.
[edit]
Alternative Poorman's Install

Finally, if your CDROM drive is still not found by DSL upon bootup and you are using DOS/Windows 95/98/98SE/Windows ME, it is still possible to use DSL.

First, boot up with your old operating system.

Second, insert the DSL livecd disk.

Third, copy the \KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX file over to C:\KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX

NOTE THAT YOU SHOULD USE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS FOR THE DIR NAME AND FILE NAME

Fourth, reboot your computer using the DSL boot floppy.

It should find the "KNOPPIX" file on your hard drive and boot into DSL. This is known as a "Poorman's Install" of DSL to your hard drive with boot floppy.

Note that this will probably not work with Windows NT/2000/XP, since they use the NTFS file system on the hard disk.

Note that if you intend to actually install DSL as Debian onto your harddrive for releases after and including 2.0, you should also copy the \boot\ tree to C:\boot\ (with older versions of DSL, copy \KNOPPIX\boot\ tree to C:\KNOPPIX\boot\ instead), as the harddrive installation process attempts to copy the kernel off of the 'CD'. Versions 1.5 and older only require the additional \KNOPPIX\boot.img to be copied to C:\KNOPPIX\boot.img, but why would you be using an older version of DSL anyway?
[edit]
See also

- google pendrive damn small linux to make usb pendrive
- make a partition vfat 100mb beginning, format it fat16, and put this program with dos apps: PLOP boot manager
this sort of grub, bit dagngeruous, has the USB drivers to boot
u have to press 2x on usb
and teh damn small linux launches

but then damn small linux is not capable to install on the hdd

it kills the disk

you have to run testdisk static to recover then your disk, and continue further trying to get woody finally
 
Old 09-05-2009, 05:09 AM   #30
frenchn00b
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2007
Location: E.U., Mountains :-)
Distribution: Debian, Etch, the greatest
Posts: 2,546

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBass View Post
No sir, you are misunderstanding.

When a new stable of Debian is released, the previous stable becomes old-stable. It is just what it sounds like, even older software than stable, and stable is far too old for a desktop IMHO. In any case, the previous version stays in old-stable for 12 months. As Etch is now more than a year old, the previous old-stable, Sarge, has been deader than a doornail for some months now. All old-stable gets is security updates. No new software or functionality is ever introduced. Woody is the generation of Debian before Sarge, and Sarge is already past end-of-life. No security, no anything. Woody gets no updates of any kind.

Now yes, if you manage to install Woody, you could just set the sources.lst to stable or testing and update/dist-upgrade the whole thing, but why do you assume the problem lies in the installer? The kernel has grown, and as far as I know, all the detection and drivers in the original Sarge kernel (2.4.27) would still be in Etch with 2.6.18 and Lenny with 2.6.24. It is possible they drop drivers for older hardware, but I don't think so.

For such a high post count, you seem to be making a few beginner mistakes here - first people have asked for the drive size, and you haven't told us. Is it possible you have a drive with less than a gigabyte of space, or has windows filled the partitions? Also, you tell us you got an error with the install and it crashed - I know catching crashes is half art and half luck, but what happened? Did it go to a blue screen of death, do you get a kernel panic from the installer? Also, if the graphical installer failed, did you try the text installer? If it is an old video card, it is quite possible the graphical installer won't work.

As to the security holes question, you're very far off the mark. There have been thousands of security holes in linux. The difference is since it is predominantly open source, people see the holes and correct them. Windows can claim fewer security holes than linux, because without the source, how do you know if a hole exists? Also, as developers seem to take an active role in their linux apps, when somebody finds a hole in any linux app, the people responsible tend to drink their caffeine of choice and get to the keyboard ASAP. The number of exploitable linux holes is low, both because of a vastly superior security setup (permissions) and quick fixes of problems. Norton antivirus might be the worst piece of code in the world, but unless somebody can find and publish a hole, the makers of Norton will claim it is flawless. Welcome to corporate America!

So please publish the specs on the drive - how big is it, how much free space does it have? If space is the issue, kill some of the windows folders and see if you can clear space. You can probably find the needed specs on the goodbye-microsoft.com page. Also, if you're able to ascertain where the crash is coming from (is it windows, or the linux installer, probably windows, linux doesn't start until you reboot), let us know. Specifically, try and capture the error message. Dropping that into google or posting it here will probably help you out.

Peace,
JimBass
well you are right woody has lot of security holes and damn small linux not DEBIAN, Debian is stable and never crash harddisks, debian works all the time, 100pct sure that you have a linux, that you can count on. Thank you that debian was born, with great politics "stable".
so I would be happy to have a pretty old kernel as woody with LENNY for the packages

but how can I make that ?

Last edited by frenchn00b; 09-05-2009 at 05:11 AM.
 
  


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