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Old 06-06-2004, 03:26 AM   #1
maximalred
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Question about the Debian Name (SID)


Did Sid from debian come from a likin , I mean Sid from Final Fantasy , also do you think that Final Fantasy games will be made in Linux every?

like new Final Fantasy games with 3D nvidia opitimized for Linux. It would be cool if they redone or updated some of those old PS1 games and made them for linux don't you think so

I like the movie & think my favitorite Final Fantasy would be 9 , The one before the PS2 X version, also liked the one from 7 version too. I was a bit dispointed with the movie because the plot did not follow the Final Fantasy games that well

--- also on a side note --

I think linux would be a better os if they

one put a gentoo portage system in debian , its a bit easy to fingure out like for use with finding game updates or installing emulators programs etc.. the portage system helps out a lot with these .. Suse had a good idea with its update system but files did not download good with it either too big in size or something in them just don't work well , gentoo portage was good but download sources and compiling them to work I just didn't like and I would rather download either P3 or P4 files that our small binaries like in deb format then sources , normal users don't like that source and compile thing to get them to work etc..

also I find myself and maybe other do too going back into windows either because they need to use their capture card which linux is less better then virtualdub capturing program that can do both video compression and sound compression which linux is somewhat lacking in , like for example I like to capture to divx which linux does not support that well at this , getting capture cards like iomagic one working in debian(knoppix) is not easy as it should be hardware is also the same as the pinnacle systems pci card which I think it reads the iomagic card as which I boted a long ago at compUSA

but I need to capture say VCR tapes into divx home use only for my own viewing using divx 5.1 format using DrDivx which is only avabile in windows xp etc.. none linux system , if linux had sound compression and video compression in a good capture program then I would use it more for video capturing but the sad truth is it does not

also I need windows still for playing games like Cyan's URU ages beyond Myst game which also does not work in linux , I really have not tryed it with wine or do not , I hope that sometime in the future that linux will have more of a native windows and dos (Directx 9 or beyond support in it for games usage) I to be able to buy any windows game and know for a fact that it would work 100 % in linux would be great

also about portage I like how it has kde, gnome , games ,firewall, game emulator , sims , etc, etc.. catogories of software which some of the other updating programs lack in their of.like redhat , suse , debian , etc..

suse maybe has too much software, debian is not that orgized as it should or could be and Redhat really sucks as a linux Os, its like having a shell of half of a Os,

Hay when debian Sid gets to a stable point how about they call it DEbian (Superman)build or when it gets a Gui updating system with DEb with a portage system based on small binaries files instead of the source packs that our 2MB each , I think it would be a cool look for Kde to look like either superman cartoon them or a smallville theme Kde based on that superman, or the next greatest debian codename for the next greatest linux version from them could be named superman build cool , right you get it right kernel booting up faster then a speeding plane , able to jump over the nearest windows , being able to stop Windows Virus with a single leep etc.. funny right seems how one could descibe linux right ..... that all I will write today.. bye .. some bat channel same bat time ... hehe ..bye..
 
Old 06-06-2004, 03:27 AM   #2
maximalred
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ok , don't take that last bit real , I was just having some fun with it
 
Old 06-06-2004, 06:08 AM   #3
bassclarinet
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Heya,
all the debian codenames come from Toy Story. So WOODY is the cowboy, SARGE is the toy soldier sargent. Each new release is given a code name once in testing. But the evil SID is always the name of unstable. I guess its where everythings really evil and experimental.

As for the update system, I still like 'apt-get install', if i want to search: 'apt-cache search ???' and if i want to browse i usually go to www.debian.org and browse the packages, cos they have the catagories there. Still, i agree that it is abit annoying having a 2.5 MB download to update APT, it would be better if we only had to update new or upgraded packages.

Anyway, for Windows games, i would use windows. Emulation can never get as good as the actual original system. So I think its better, in general, for Linux games developers to spend their time writing new things rather than emulators.

Bassclarinet
 
Old 06-07-2004, 02:49 AM   #4
muxman
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Re: Question about the Debian Name (SID)

Quote:
Originally posted by maximalred


one put a gentoo portage system in debian...


also about portage I like how it has kde, gnome , games ,firewall, game emulator , sims , etc, etc.. catogories of software which some of the other updating programs lack in their of.like redhat , suse , debian , etc..


suse maybe has too much software, debian is not that orgized as it should or could be and Redhat really sucks as a linux Os, its like having a shell of half of a Os,


Hay when debian Sid gets to a stable point how about they call it DEbian (Superman)build or when it gets a Gui updating system with DEb with a portage system based on small binaries files instead of the source packs that our 2MB each...

but I need to capture say VCR tapes into divx home use only for my own viewing using divx 5.1 format using DrDivx which is only avabile in windows xp etc.. none linux system , if linux had sound compression and video compression in a good capture program then I would use it more for video capturing but the sad truth is it does not.
Here are a few points about debian you may have overlooked in reply to your post.


apt-get offers much more than the gentoo portage system. Gentoo has about 4,000 packages available, so my gentoo using friends tells me, while debian has about 14,000 packages available once it's configured on my system. More choice is always better in my book. The more choices you have the better your systems is going to be for you.

If you want categories for software try aptitude in the console or synaptic in GUI and it will organize the debian apt-get packages by category. Giving you a nice easy menu to chose from when looking for software. Everything organized such as internet, games, system, server, etc.

The debian packages are also about as organized as they can get. Debian tracks, from the users who choose to participate, the packages that are used the most and those packages are then put in a priority order on the debian cds. So cd 1 has the most used packages on it, cd 2 the next most used, cd 3 the next and so on. Combined with the categories in the programs I mentioned above you can't get much better than that.

Apt-get packages are based on small binaries and not the sources. The source is available but when you use apt-get, aptitude, synaptic, or any other method to get debian packages they are just the small binary files. If you are getting sources you are doing something wrong or have something setup wrong. If you run apt-get correctly you can get full packages that are 350K and not 2 or 3 MB. For example, use apt-get to install apache and you get a 350K binary file that installs and then you have apache. The sources is about 3MB, but if apt-get is configured correctly all you will get is the 350K binary. 350K and 3MB are a big difference in a download.

If you look around just a little you will find a lot of video capture and editing tools in Linux. I use several different programs and do format conversions as well in Linux.

As a version of linux Red Hat is stable but installing software on it is a nightmare even for users who know what they are doing. When tracking down dependencies it is horrible, I can agree about that.

I hope that this gives you a little better idea about debian seeing how you really did your research before your post.

Last edited by muxman; 06-07-2004 at 06:26 AM.
 
Old 10-07-2004, 10:34 PM   #5
Gent00_OwnZ
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Bios Update for bassclarinet

hey bassclarinet, I saw your post where you were looking for a bios update for a micronics motherboard, well I have a link for you, I posted to that thread, but don't know if you still check it, some hopefully you check this one


http://www.bcmcom.com/tech/VP1541/VP1541bios.asp
 
Old 10-07-2004, 11:02 PM   #6
Gent00_OwnZ
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Gentoo Portage

ATM gentoo's portage contains 7787 different packages, thats not say gimp-1.2.* and gimp-2.*, that just counting gimp-* as one package. For debian to have 14K packages, then you must be counting gimp-1.2.* and gimp-2.* as 2 entirely different packages, and if you wanna get into that, then gentoo's portage has 16274, beating your debians 14K, so I'd have to say YOU need to do more reasearch before you post :-P
 
Old 10-08-2004, 05:24 PM   #7
muxman
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Even if Debian is counting different releases like that it's still a better system. Debian can install the same package as gentoo in much less time on the average. Compiling every package does not give you the performance boost that many may think. It does help, but overall it's mainly a waste of my time to do that. Compare identical machines, each with the latest versions of Debian, Slack, Gentoo and other verison and test them. You'll see for yourself that it's a waste of time. We did that at work and now no one uses Gentoo anymore.

When Debian says 14K packages, that's 14K of packages that are currently designated for that particular release you are using. If Gimp-1.2 is the package designated for that release, then that is the only version of gimp that is being counted as a package for that release. When you use apt to install gimp you'll only get Gimp-1.2. To get other versions you have to tell it just where to get them because it's not counted as a package for that release. You usually need to give it another source, i.e. another versions package, and then specify a different version specifically to get that different package. Since it's not counted as a package for that release.

"so I'd have to say YOU need to do more reasearch before you post :-P"
 
Old 10-09-2004, 12:20 AM   #8
comp12345
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Re: Gentoo Portage

Quote:
Originally posted by Gent00_OwnZ
ATM gentoo's portage contains 7787 different packages, thats not say gimp-1.2.* and gimp-2.*, that just counting gimp-* as one package. For debian to have 14K packages, then you must be counting gimp-1.2.* and gimp-2.* as 2 entirely different packages, and if you wanna get into that, then gentoo's portage has 16274, beating your debians 14K, so I'd have to say YOU need to do more reasearch before you post :-P
I doubt that. Although you may have a package with two different versions in the same branch(i.e. in your example gimp-1.2.*, gimp-2.*), you will also find the same thing in portage. You have gimp 2.04, 2.02, 2.0.0, 1.2.5. So would that count as four? It's pretty useless to make a comparison because they package the software differently. In Debian, gimp is separated into smaller, more manageable packages (i.e. gimp, gimp-data, libgimp, etc.) In Gentoo, it might not be split up into smaller subsystems. but maintained in that one package called gimp. The packages available on Gentoo and Debian are about equal. Just about any package that you can find on one, you will also find on the other.
 
Old 10-09-2004, 12:49 AM   #9
muxman
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Re: Re: Gentoo Portage

Quote:
Originally posted by comp12345
I doubt that. Although you may have a package with two different versions in the same branch(i.e. in your example gimp-1.2.*, gimp-2.*), you will also find the same thing in portage. You have gimp 2.04, 2.02, 2.0.0, 1.2.5. So would that count as four? It's pretty useless to make a comparison because they package the software differently. In Debian, gimp is separated into smaller, more manageable packages (i.e. gimp, gimp-data, libgimp, etc.) In Gentoo, it might not be split up into smaller subsystems. but maintained in that one package called gimp. The packages available on Gentoo and Debian are about equal. Just about any package that you can find on one, you will also find on the other.
Don't forget as with any version of linux you can always get the source of a package that is not offered with the package manager, compile and install it yourself and there by having even more packages.

I like apt just so I don't have to hunt dependancies like with most distros and I don't have to complile everything like with others. This makes installs easy without the dependancies and faster without compile times.

 
Old 10-09-2004, 01:22 AM   #10
Gent00_OwnZ
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Re: Re: Re: Gentoo Portage

Quote:
Originally posted by muxman
Don't forget as with any version of linux you can always get the source of a package that is not offered with the package manager, compile and install it yourself and there by having even more packages.

I like apt just so I don't have to hunt dependancies like with most distros and I don't have to complile everything like with others. This makes installs easy without the dependancies and faster without compile times.


Ok, i think you guys misunderstood me, when I said there are 7000 some odd packages, I wasn't counting gimp-1.2.* and gimp-2.* as seperate packages, I was counting all version of gimp as ONE package. Therefore meaning that there are 7000 some odd unigue packages in portage. The 16K some add packaes is the count were gimp-1.2.* and gimp-2.* are counted seperatly as 2 different packages. And with gentoo I don't have to hunt dependanciies. And I sure don't have to compile everyhitng either, thats what gentoo's USE flags are for. I don't have a prenter, don't need nls stuff, or documentation, and so on, so none of the programs I compile will have support for cups, nor will it build the nls stuff, nor documentation as well as the other option I supply with my USE flags. And yes, you might get your programs installed faster, but the binaries in your .deb packages won't run faster then the bianires I compile for myself. And the reason is, all your .deb binaries your fetching with apt-get are compiled with -mcpu=i386 and whatever other flags the deb roller decided to compile the package with. Whereas my binaries are compiled with -march=k6-2 -pipe -O2 -mmmx -m3dnow and a few other choice flags, resulting in a binary finely tuned for just my system, not 20 million other systems, and utilizinf special instructions supported by my cpu. Where your .deb's don't ahve any support for the mmx 3dnow, sse or sse2 instructions your cpu may be able to utilize.
 
Old 10-09-2004, 04:21 AM   #11
muxman
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Gentoo Portage

Quote:
Originally posted by Gent00_OwnZ
...resulting in a binary finely tuned for just my system, not 20 million other systems...
As I said, Compare identical machines, each with the latest versions of Debian, Slack, Gentoo and other verison and test them. You'll see for yourself that it's a waste of time. We did that at work and now no one uses Gentoo anymore.

I've seen various systems running side by side and Gentoos "custom" binaries are a joke. Most of the time the gain, if any, offered by the so called finely tuned binaries are so small that they are not even noticable. That's only if there is a gain at all. Unix veterans, people I work with who have decades of unix experience agree with the results we saw in testing various distros. These are people with much more experience than I have and I bet than most people on this forum.

Linux distros are all about 98% the same thing. Some useful utils and other programs are what really make them stand apart. The methods of doing certain tasks differ, but the tasks are the same and the results are the same.

If Gentoo works for you then great. It's a waste of my time to use it. Quick and simple things that need not take any time at all gentoo turns into time wasting jokes that I don't want. I'd rather have a quick install whose binary has a runtime that takes 0.0000235 seconds longer than a fine tuned gentoo binary.

http://www.funroll-loops.org/
 
Old 10-09-2004, 05:19 AM   #12
Dead Parrot
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Quote:
And yes, you might get your programs installed faster, but the binaries in your .deb packages won't run faster then the bianires I compile for myself. And the reason is, all your .deb binaries your fetching with apt-get are compiled with -mcpu=i386 and whatever other flags the deb roller decided to compile the package with. Whereas my binaries are compiled with -march=k6-2 -pipe -O2 -mmmx -m3dnow and a few other choice flags, resulting in a binary finely tuned for just my system
Debian not only installs programs faster than Gentoo, but also upgrading programs is faster. It might even turn out that Debian binaries actually run faster than Gentoo binaries, and here's the reason why: http://linuxgazette.net/104/misc/ecol/ecol-161-e.png
 
Old 10-09-2004, 06:51 AM   #13
Gent00_OwnZ
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Ok, I'll have to admit, that was slightly funny. But most "sane" gentoo users do their compiling while they sleep. That way the box is fully responsive when the user is actually trying to do things. At least this insane gentoo user compiles while she lseeps.
 
Old 10-09-2004, 07:55 AM   #14
muxman
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That was a good one. Funny stuff.
 
  


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