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Old 02-19-2014, 01:46 PM   #106
Soderlund
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Is it possible to choose an init system when installing?
 
Old 02-19-2014, 02:11 PM   #107
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At least for Jessie there will be compatibility with sysvinit scripts, so it should be possible to run Jessie as a sysvinit system, but soon afterwards likely that compatibility will be dropped in the then new testing, unless their will be a new decision to support multiple systems (or a GR overrides the CTTE decision).
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:09 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
That's mostly the result of a bigger question:
Is it still possible/useful to support everything inside a single distribution?

IMHO Debian would greatly benefit from a less modular design.
First of all. You're not some of those guys that think that eliminating The Bad you're really simplifying, are you?

In general to support everything is not a good strategy. That's why I like
Unix. But community driven development model falls in that state naturally, it's not the result of a strategy.

The issue here is that "to support everything" is not "to make everybody happy". In a world made of people that think and choose, perhaps. But in this world "to make everybody happy" is as easy as imitating big monkeys. Make Linux behave like Windows and everybody will be happy. That's the strategy we are suffering today.
 
Old 02-21-2014, 07:21 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloi View Post
First of all. You're not some of those guys that think that eliminating The Bad you're really simplifying, are you?
You guys stop talking about good vs. bad, that is not the point here, the point is design, more specifically a design with KISS, having each program do one thing but do it well, and be as loosely coupled as possible.
THe OS should implement various facilities like IPC and file ownership and make it easy to access network resources and implement security measures, but that is about it, everything else should be optional, configurable and the ability to choose between alternatives should exist.

In a nutshell this is it, and the UNIX design principles and philosophy have provided it for almost half a century.

systemd is a clear deviation from those design principles and a step in the wrong direction for all Linux.
 
Old 02-23-2014, 06:14 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vl23 View Post
You guys stop talking about good vs. bad, that is not the point here, the point is design
Please, read carefully and try to understand what the other said before quoting.

What you state has been said a hundred of times. Even the defenders of systemd know that. Why systemd wins anyway? Fashion. That's why any technical (or political) discussion about systemd is pointless.

Last edited by eloi; 02-23-2014 at 06:24 AM.
 
Old 02-23-2014, 08:20 AM   #111
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloi View Post
First of all. You're not some of those guys that think that eliminating The Bad you're really simplifying, are you?

In general to support everything is not a good strategy. That's why I like
Unix. But community driven development model falls in that state naturally, it's not the result of a strategy.

The issue here is that "to support everything" is not "to make everybody happy". In a world made of people that think and choose, perhaps. But in this world "to make everybody happy" is as easy as imitating big monkeys. Make Linux behave like Windows and everybody will be happy. That's the strategy we are suffering today.
I mostly meant the black & white view on dependency coupling in the ctte debate (meaning I essentially agree with you on this)..

It's (IMO) neither desirable or necessary to have every single package in main for all architectures/kernels/user-cases.
Calling that "less modular" was bad usage of the English language from my side (apologies if that caused some confusion).

Last edited by jens; 02-23-2014 at 08:42 AM.
 
Old 02-23-2014, 10:10 AM   #112
vl23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloi View Post
Please, read carefully and try to understand what the other said before quoting.

What you state has been said a hundred of times. Even the defenders of systemd know that. Why systemd wins anyway? Fashion. That's why any technical (or political) discussion about systemd is pointless.
I did, good vs. bad is purely abstract, furthermore writing shell scripts is neither that hard nor that time consuming as some people might have you think.
Your entire point was terrible, although I give you points for calling systemd the result of fashion.

Last edited by vl23; 02-23-2014 at 10:11 AM.
 
Old 02-23-2014, 01:52 PM   #113
eloi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vl23 View Post
I did, good vs. bad is purely abstract, furthermore writing shell scripts is neither that hard nor that time consuming as some people might have you think.
Your entire point was terrible, although I give you points for calling systemd the result of fashion.
Transparent. From now I'll agree with you in all to get more "vl23 points".

Thanks
 
Old 02-24-2014, 08:08 PM   #114
Knightron
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I hear that vl23 points have a good exchange rate on the market. Wise move.

In all seriousness i do agree with vl23. My knowledge on init systems is very noobish though, so my agreement is really not worth much.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:29 AM   #115
vl23
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Originally Posted by eloi View Post
Transparent. From now I'll agree with you in all to get more "vl23 points".

Thanks
Hey, when I like a post that has a good idea, like the systemd is fashion one, I give it my +1
 
  


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