Ugh ...
This is really getting old. Just click on on the link in "NO" and read the full argument.
NO, YOU DON'T HAVE CHOICE TO DECIDE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE CHOOSE TO WORK ON!

We all have different opinions/goals and YOU DO NOT have the choice to enslave us to do whatever YOUR choice is.

Stop being so selfish.

Go ahead and do it, nobody will stop you from doing that. As I said already in a different thread, ranting on a forum will not change anything, either change the distribution you use to something you deem to be acceptable or step up and do the work yourself.

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Bdale just made it official: systemd wins.

D systemd
U upstart
O openrc
V sysvinit (no change)
F requires further discussion

* Bdale Garbee: D U O V F
* Russ Allbery: D U O V F
* Steve Langasek: F U D O V
* Don Armstrong: D U O V F
* Keith Packard: D U O V F
* Colin Watson: U D O F V
* Ian Jackson: F V O U D
* Andreas Barth: U F D O V

Casting Vote (Bdale Garbee):
https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte.../msg00405.html

1 members found this post helpful.

Yes I do, by not using it, using better alternates, giving money to people that produce better alternatives and by actively talking about why I dislike the crap that is being forced on a particular distribution or projects.

It is called freedom of choice, it is also pretty closely related to capitalism, I am sure you've heard of the concepts.

Edit:
Also this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._distributions

So many distros to choose from, probably a number of them will work the way I want them to work, don't you think.
It is sad though, that such a large branch just got infested by that garbage.

I officially despise these people more than I despise Gates:

* Bdale Garbee: D U O V F
* Russ Allbery: D U O V F
* Don Armstrong: D U O V F
* Keith Packard: D U O V F

You forget to add that you can also choose to get the kernel, any version thereof, from any point in time and build from there.

All the tools and applications supported by the FSF are all free software which you can do with as you wish as long as you maintain the original authors signatures and so forth.

In the case of both Red Hat and Debian, organizations that are taking a lot of heat here, that is what someone did 20 years ago. Exactly what they did.

To be surprised that they may have, in the ensuing time, become somewhat "mainstream" seems a bit silly to me. They are doing what they think is best for the future of their projects.

Very similar in many ways with capitolism.

We can, as always, choose to go with them or something else.

We could start a new distro right now with people on this thread. I think, reading this thread, that we may have some problem coming to a concensus of what to use as an init system.

2 members found this post helpful.

sheer truth!


Was. But not anymore, it evolves its own way since long ago

excellent news, thank you

Yes, many distros is good, no doubts here.

But many different ways to configure them is awfully bad.

For more than 18 years of using Linux platform professionally I've been sick of this zoo!
My greatest dream has always been to find the basic configuration structure to be exactly the same across various distros.

If I have, say "/etc/something/my.conf" on my office servers that running Debian, then for god's sake - I also want it to be there on my development station in Arch, and in my Slackware servers, and on my wife's PC running Ubuntu as well.

Finally, thanx to Kay, Lennart and team, this dream seems coming true and I couldn't care less if it is "non-unix-way" or whoever else ways, as long as it works and uniform across different platforms.

Don't forget that systemd does have it's own share of problems and it's implementation will be a very hard hit or miss at first with service starts, custom re-tunings, and other issues that right now are still not completely ironed out. Some stuff does start up, but sometimes, some things don't always start properly and things get improperly loaded resulting in a non-viable environment.

I can only hope that they don't just push sysvinit out without any consideration and leave it and it's scripts unmaintained.

I don't see this as good news really. I just hope they use some level of sanity and thoroughly test it before pushing it out public, even in Jessie.

Double-edged sword here. While I too would like to see more consistency across distributions, at what point would people become unhappy their distribution is becoming too much like another?

I guess I should make sure system is up to date and take a snapshot of it. I'm running Sid. Hopefully the transition won't break my system.

Exactly, although I was talking about the more general case of disliking a product or service, FOSS of course gives us even more options.

I didn't give a damn how small a market share Linux and FreeBSD had 10 years ago, when I installed them for the first time(thus whiping my WinXP install, well I was still very inexperienced then.Ah, good times)
I don't give a damn now either, and my opinions on software extend to all other aspects of my existence, everybody is entitled to an opinion, but I will neither take other people's idiocy lying down, nor will I refrain from calling them on their bullshit.
Live free or die is after all the UNIX philosophy.
Well now it is not like we can't use multiple init systems now, can we.
We colud just have a few polls to see how everybody stands I suppose, we can each form our small groups and spawn not one but several distros, and may the best ones thrive and gain more users and developers
Every train has its passengers, but just for fun lets use javascript for our boot scripts



Ah, well even a broken clock tells time right twice a day I suppose.


Oh, it has stopped to use the octal ugo permissions, it does not use ttys, / as the absolute path to everything, indoes, all the various UNIX instruments, and that is just skin deep of course.
There are also things like IPC, system calls, NFS,ACLs, UNIX signals and system calls, the entire process model with things like groups and sessions, the SLAB allocator from Solaris, just to name a few.
But I agree, Linux should stop being UNIX, that is why I suggest that all the companies involved in commercial UNIX, the SUS, and the owners of the traemark sue Linus and the other developers and withdraw their commercial support for Linux until every single unix bit is truly removed from it(sarcasm)


Translation, you are lazy and so averse to learning new things, minor cosmetic differences really, or migrating to one distro or a set of closely related distros(scientific/RHEL/CENTOS/Fedora for example) that you need to force every single Linux distro and user to depend on systemd rap exclusively.
Not to mention the fact that all the desktop-friendly distros have had a perfectly user-friendly network anager for years now, but obviously the ability to look kool in front of your wife by doing something via the console on her Dumbuntu laptop is more important that freedom of choice, diversity, simplicity and competition among distros/tools/evelopers/philosophies of doing things.

You know if you crave uniformity so much there are two OSes that might fit your needs perfectly, one uses binary files and special config tools to do stuff, the other is a BSD clone with a lot of slick config tools of its own, they are called Windows and OS X.

As to my opinions of Sievers, Pottheadering and all those who lick their boots and think their shit is the next best thing after the wheel and sliced bread, well my opinions on them pretty closely echo those of the Zaporozhian cossacks as regarding the Turkish Sultan read here

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Sadly many modern day GNU/Linux admins don't even know how to setup a system without resulting to shortcut tactics, but even more want GNU/Linux to be the next Windows. Too many people have been spoiled by Windows to the point they expect GNU/Linux to work and behave exactly like Windows and too many wanna-be developers want it to work the same way when it was never designed to do that.

As I stated, I hope Debian thoroughly makes sure this works right and sysvinit remains truly optional or they'll experience on hell of an exodus.

3 members found this post helpful.

Don't forget the lusers that come from Windows and Mac-land not because they understand how much better Linux and the other UNIX-like OSes are, but because they wish to be quel

That's a bit strong...

But I find the support for systemd bewildering... a few years ago I would have said that Debian would be the last distro to make this crap the default. But things have obviously changed a lot in the Debian camp over the last several years. I'm pretty sure I won't be revisiting Debian any time soon.

What I especially dislike about systemd and it's creators, before you even even get into criticising the concept/design, is that it's creators set out to dominate and proliferate their 'product' at the expense of everything else.

Thank the gods for Slackware.

Hey, with Gates at least I know where I stand, he and his company want to make lots and lots of money out of users and control as much of the market/sell as many bundled and inter-dependant services and products as possible.
M$'s products might be meh, but so are those developed by many other companies, some of which are being ran by people who make Bill G. look like a tame lsmb by comparison IMO,
and at least in part the levels of suck can be attributed to the mentality of Windows users and Admins, because in the end you do get what you paid for, and sometimes that pay might be in the form of research, time and ignorance, not just money.
There is also the pointy-haired boss going to a presentation of Microsoft products/playing golf with an old friend or freind's kid that is now a sales rep fro MS(Or Oracle, IBM, Red Hat, Novell, HP, etc.)
There is also the fact that before DOS Microsoft actually had its own UNIX implementation, however due to AT&T's copyright MS was forced to dump it, the few veteran admins I've asked about it actually think that it was pretty good.

And those people were supposed to be UNIX and Linux veterans worthy enough to be entrusted with the safeguarding of the UNIX philosophy, what they did is IMO equivalent to high treason.

You said it, sadly all it takes for evil to succeed...


Don't forget Gentoo!