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Old 05-03-2017, 03:02 AM   #1
hd_scania
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Needs to ask before trying Debian


The UbuntuForums.org has told slightly, which the official Debian forums are HOSTILE to the Linux novices, here I have been WELL EXPERIENCED to LMDE and Ubuntu, finally few rpm distro. Will the official Debian forums still be HOSTILE to me? If so what to be prepared thanks? This issue has been also asked to UbuntuForums.org and the LMDE forums.

Last edited by hd_scania; 05-03-2017 at 03:19 AM.
 
Old 05-03-2017, 04:12 AM   #2
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No, they will not be hostile. That is my prediction.
 
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:16 AM   #3
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Long ago in a century far removed, I was looking to get into Linux. I visited the Debian fora.
Once - and I never even asked a question.

Simple questions drew vitriol on the unfortunate novice. I have never installed Debian on any of my machines. I wonder how many others similarly thought "fsck the lot of 'em".
 
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:29 AM   #4
Keltonix
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The official Debian forums are not HOSTILE to GNU/Linux novices. However, you might perceive the denizens of the Debian forums as being hostile if you think (or make them think that you think) they're your slaves. To mitigate that possibility, you might try incorporating the following into your personal knowledge base:

Often (nay, USUALLY) the way in which a person presents questions in forums has a lot to do with the kind of feedback one gets from forum contributors who answer questions in those forums. Despite what some folks may say, using proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization for the language in which one is posing one's questions in a forum will usually set the tone for the responses one receives.

Next, it is usually important to those who answer questions and help to solve problems in support forums to know that the person asking a question or looking for a solution to a problem has made at least some sort of effort to search the forums (or to do a Google search containing terms about a particular problem for which a solution is being sought) for previously reported glitches that come close to matching the problem he or she is having. Software is hugely complex, and programs are going to have glitches. It's likely that a problem that you may be having has already been reported, and in the mind of a problem-solver in a forum, you should at least make the effort to find out what you can about a problem before demanding help with that problem ... because folks who help out in forums are usually doing so for free (as in no-cost or gratis).

There's a jerk inside everyone. But most people do not lead with their inner jerk, in my opinion. Denizens of support forums who are there because they want to help usually aren't hostile. They're there to help because they WANT to help, not because they're obligated to help. So, if you believe that you have encountered a "hostile" response to a request for help with a problem, read the response carefully to find clues as to what has elicited that response, then eradicate whatever you discover has caused (what you perceive as) a "hostile" response.

If you believe that someone is being hostile to you, your first response (as a person who needs help with a problem) is not to believe that the intention of that person was the intention you perceive. Don't give back what you believe you're receiving. Instead, assume that you're wrong about the intentions of the person whom you believe is being hostile to you. It's possible that your perception of hostility is not wrong, but go ahead and ignore your first instinct to strike back, because it's likely that your perception of hostility IS WRONG. [Don't forget this factoid: Hostility breeds hostility. So you should try to nip hostility in the bud before it becomes a war.]

Here is a little list of responses that you might perceive as hostile, but which are not hostile:

(1) RTFM
(2) Google it
(3) Search the forums
(4) Spelling corrections
(5) Grammar corrections
(6) Punctuation corrections
(7) Aggravated responses to conflated issues

1, 2, and 3
If someone in a forum believes that you have done zero work in trying to find a solution to a problem, you may receive a reply to RTFM or to do a Google search for the problem or to search the forums for the problem. People who solve problems in forums have often seen lots of problems solved, and have read the solutions. If one of those people remembers that there is already a solution to your particular problem, he or she may find it annoying that you have not found that solution on your own. Pointing out the solution in a way that coddles your inner child is not likely to be the first response of someone who is annoyed by your lack of effort. Not coddling your inner child (or your inner snowflake) ≠ hostility.

4, 5, and 6
Interpreting gibberish writing to get at a problem that a forum user is having should not be a duty that is foisted onto someone who is providing free help. Not everyone gives a hoot about language errors. But plenty of people do give a hoot, and you may encounter someone who corrects your lazy grammar, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization errors. Native English speakers can generally tell the difference between errors that a non-native English speaker makes and the errors that a lazy native English speaker makes. And, in my experience, the former are given leeway that the latter are not. So, if English is your native language, make an effort to use it correctly. A single typographical error is likely to be overlooked, but lots of errors that are obviously the result of laziness are likely to earn you a public correction reply. Correction ≠ hostility.

7
Don't conflate problems. Separate problems that you're having so that helpful folks don't need to sift through your inability to find your own solutions. Why should a person helping you for free need to get at the heart of your conflated issues? Treat every glitch as a separate issue when you're posting in support forums for help. Each glitch deserves its own post in a support forum.

GNU/Linux-based systems provide heaps of information. Much of that information is useful (or at least pertinent) to solving problems. CPU type, RAM quantity, GUI version, kernel version, QT version, GTK version, the version of the application that you're having issues with, and error-log entries pertaining to that application are all pertinent when you're seeking help in a forum. You should not throw your problem into a forum (especially a Debian forum or an Arch Linux forum) without including as much pertinent information as you can about your computing environment and the particular software with which you are having difficulty. This will also make you seem to be actively trying to help yourself, which in Debian and Arch forums may be more important than in other forums.

= = = = = = = = = = = =

Despite all efforts that you may make to reduce the likelihood that you will receive "hostile" treatment in any GNU/Linux support forum, you will sometimes encounter a critter commonly known as a troll. Trolls enjoy being bad. You can do nothing about that. You cannot fight trolls using good manners, perfect adherence to the grammatical, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization rules of the language you use, or utterly thorough adherence to the rules and usage suggestions of a forum where you post your questions. Trolls exist to ensure that no one ever forgets that civilization is always on the precipice of destruction. Honor them for that, and then be on your way. You cannot win any kind of battle against a troll, so you shouldn't try to do so.

Last edited by Keltonix; 05-03-2017 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Correcting various flubs and adding some thoughts.
 
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:57 AM   #5
hd_scania
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Code:
Every people are needed to be followed (compiled / matched) under A.
Code:
Everyone needs to follow (comply / match) A.
Will Debian forums see it for: plural nouns overuse and passive voice overuse?

Code:
aptitude and dselect are NOT seemed to be wrought for apt-rpm, and it should be BEST if Debian teams follow this up.
Code:
Aptitude and DSelect are not seemed to work for APT-RPM, and it should be the best if Debian teams follow this up.
With facing codes should I follow the case ssensitivity for Unix coding or human speeches? And if to highlight in CAPITAL cases will I be fed back harshly and needed to amend into bold higihlight? Finally do they think it is a responsibility for the rpm vendors themselves to maintain apt-rpm instead of Debian together, hence for Slackware itself to maintain slapt-get instead of Debian together? Finally are articles needed in maximum relative adjectives?

Code:
These distro (OS) arent the best Debian derivatives to be sustainably used & w/o hesitations.
Code:
These distros (OS’es) aren’t the best Debian derivatives to sustainably use and without hesitations.
Will they require the plural suffixes AND the prime points dealing with acronyms? Also do passive and active voices matter nothing for infinitives behind which you have planned to act it? Finally are formal wordings required?

Finally...

If I have observed online for mostly LOW-QUALITY but RECENT solutions OUTSIDE the Debian forums, so will I be still fed back harshly inside them?
Where to ask for supports of the Debian derivatives inside the Debian forums? I have seen NO areas for the Debian derivatives and an area for Debian ITSELF only.
I have found the issues up to here which the Debian wiki (hence manuals inside) MAY NOT tell us..

Last edited by hd_scania; 05-03-2017 at 06:59 AM.
 
Old 05-03-2017, 08:02 AM   #6
hydrurga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keltonix View Post
Despite what some folks may say, using proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization for the language in which one is posing one's questions in a forum will usually set the tone for the responses one receives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keltonix View Post
Denizens of support forums who are their because they want to help usually aren't hostile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keltonix View Post
If you believe that someone is being hostile to you, you're first response (as a person who needs help with a problem)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keltonix View Post
So, if English is your native language, make an effort to use it correctly.


Interesting post otherwise.
 
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Old 05-04-2017, 05:32 AM   #7
hd_scania
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Thanks all and I have planned to start testing Debian since this weekend, but I still rather ask here of my Debian errors.

Last edited by hd_scania; 05-04-2017 at 06:14 AM.
 
Old 05-04-2017, 07:01 AM   #8
hydrurga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_scania View Post
Thanks all and I have planned to start testing Debian since this weekend, but I still rather ask here of my Debian errors.
You're more than welcome to do so - hopefully we'll be able to help you out.

Good luck with the testing!
 
Old 05-04-2017, 07:24 AM   #9
syg00
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Ditto. I hope it all goes well.
 
Old 05-06-2017, 08:15 PM   #10
hd_scania
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Finally, there have been SIX spins under the Debian Tested distro, but Cinnamon and GNOME are well practiced and I have been a hater of SOMEWHAT two, LXDE and XFCE remaining, but which is better to me? Here I am a less is more SuSE community developer and I just can't wait for 2 years for the upcoming Debian Stable distro.
 
Old 05-07-2017, 03:55 AM   #11
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My experience of the Debian forums isn't that they're hostile but that people aren't as keen to attempt an answer as they are here. That is, when asking questions I have only had a couple of replies and not seen the "I haven't seen this so tried to install it to help you" that I've seen here.
The Debian IRC channel, on the other hand, I've had somebody practically help rebuild my system after issues with meta packages and dependencies. I'd say the couple of times I've used the Debian IRC channel it has been the most useful resource I've used.
 
Old 05-07-2017, 04:14 PM   #12
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There are jerks everywhere. Ignore the jerks. Keep going.
 
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:25 PM   #13
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Arrow

Hi.

Testing you say : https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/u...y-live-builds/

Have fun!
 
Old 05-07-2017, 04:27 PM   #14
jamison20000e
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Can still learn from the "jerks" tho++‽
 
Old 05-07-2017, 07:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
I have OF COURSE bookmarked it, here I need to ask is LXDE or XFCE better, which Cinnamon and GNOME have been well used, finally MATÉ and KDE are too bloatsome to me.
So do I download BOTH LXDE and XFCE in flavour of a flexibility which I need to finally install? Thanks commenting them to me.
 
  


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