Doh!

Thanks augamecock.

Debian
 

Hi there, Its time for the 2 Cents from Londonboi :D

Debian is the Best OS on the Face of the Planet.......... Opps sorry i meant in the universe

I had many many problems the very first time i installed it, I mean 2 years ago i was happy with RH and suse and mandrake. I thought rpms were the way to go......

But in the end i got sick and tired of rpm dependcy problems most of the software i wanted installed would not install because other dependencys need to be installed and then the dependecy i downloaded would not install because it depended on something eles..... Anyway i could go on about that for ages so i wont bore you to death....

So anyway I spent 3 days trying to work out how to install debian, Then on the 3rd day, it worked, it installed and downloaded everthing i needed.

I did not use dselect or aptitude, I just typed the command "apt-get update" then "apt-get install gnome x-windows-system xmms mozilla xchat xine w32codecs" And that was that

A fully installed system..... I have not needed to reinstall my computer since.

I use the unstable brance and once a week i pass the command apt-get dist-upgrade to grab all the latest stuff and upgrades.

Apt-get sorts out ALL dependencys and i have NEVER had ANY problems atall.

All I want to say is "Hail to the creaters of Debian, I nbow before you ;)"

Anyway that is that, and if you dont like debian then dont use it, and dont rant about it :tisk:

There is a reason why its no.1 OS in my books :D :D :D :D :D

Re: Debian
 

Now I know what Nu-Bee meant by "The Cult Distro".

:D

Debian isn't hard to install but you may have to configure stuff and know a little bit about your hardware. If you've got trouble installing it, you may have to read a little bit about linux and debian online manual before installing it that's it.
I'm using only debian as my only os and i don't have trouble with it. I have been using it for 3 years without regret.

At install , i just took the monolitic kernel 2.2 and loaded the module for my network card, i didn't care to get sound working,etc...
I never used dselect or taskel at install.
do you want to use dselect - no
do you want to run tasksel - no
I installed just the minimum with the first cd and after i edited the sources.list files to prepare the upgrade to testing.

*apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade;
*apt-get install fluxbox gkrellm mozilla etc...
*apt-get install kernel-source-latest and yop so fresh so clean brand new kernel

*apt-get remove lilo --purge && apt-get install grub

Xfree isn't well configured, well i don't really mind. XFree86 -configure and follow the instructions.
Before using debian, i was using mandrake and then redhat, slackware, gentoo,etc... I used redhat and mandrake most for almost 3 years and i decided to switch to debian/freebsd.

i* don't really like rpm dependencies, to wander and go to seek for rpms at freshrpms or rpmfind, so apt and bow down :-)
apt-get install xxx && apt-get clean
*Easy upgrade and maintenance, all about apt, no redhat rhn applet disappearing, no mandrake bugs to solve, i hate rpm distros.
*i learned more from Unix/linux when i switch to debian and learned even more from freebsd.

You know what i think, :-) it is the best linux out there, it doesn't mean it has to be difficult or too friendly, it is quality and stability you get and lazzy administration/installation with apt.

Many Debian developers would agree
 

It's been around two years since I've attended a Debian conference, but I receive various Debian mailings. I'd say that many, if not most, of the Debian developers realize that while, on one hand, the default Debian installer is very flexible, it is incredibly outdated, not very easy to use, and could stand improvements, even for the people who understand it well. There are projects to improve the situation that are part of the main Debian project; in fact, issues with modifying the installer are among several reasons delaying the next major Debian release from being finalized.

The Debian installer that is undergoing testing is vastly improved from what the current "stable" installer offers, but given the fact that it's not ready for prime time, it might not be ready for the typical consumer either.

There are a number of alternative ways to get into Debian software that make the initial entry point much easier. For me, someone sent me a copy of Libranet. I installed it easily, then gradually learned how to use apt-get to install new software. More recent versions of Libranet include a GUI package installation tool, synaptic, which further simplifies software installation. Libranet is commercial and it costs money for the most recent version. However, in the spirit of freedom, Libranet almost always makes an older version of their software freely available for download at no cost. If you have a broadband network, downloading older free Libranet ISO images, then upgrading the system once installed is an easy way to get into Debian software.

Other easy ways include installing Xandros or LindowsOS, both commercial, but very easy to install complete systems.

The most recent wave of Live CDs are widely available for Debian. Quite a number of Debian based Live CD systems exist, the most famous of which is Knoppix. Numerous special purpose Live CD implementations have emerged from Knoppix; I can recommend several of them; my personal favorite happens to be Mepis; Morphix has some interesting special purpose Live CDs.

Debian software, to me, offers an excellent compromise between speed, ease of use, and maintainability. Though the default installer is cumbersome, the software packaging is excellent, especially the core underpinnings of the package management software. For me, I find it much faster to get into a Debian system than, for example, the increasingly popular Gentoo Linux. For me, any speed gains of the Gentoo approach are modest, and I can build pieces of Debian from sources, too, if I really need speed. If I really wanted the Gentoo like approach, I'd be more inclined to spend time with FreeBSD and OpenBSD (which I've also done). The BSDs also take a lot of time to build and rebuild, but their stuff tends to be significantly more stable than Gentoo Linux. All of those arguments aside, I continue to find Debian easier to maintain, once installed, faster to initially install (especially with the help of any of the prepackaged Debian systems), reliable, flexible, and able to handle any tasks that the other systems we've discussed can handle - I use a Debian based system for my routine desktop system, and I've been extremely satisfied with it.

Just my opinion.
I had tons of problems with Mandrake on my assembled laptop (the bells and whistles and its decision to do everything itself, without telling me what it was doing were among the least of my problems). Red Hat was not much better. I tried Debian and it is working perfectly - sure it took me sometime to figure out what files to edit, but it is working perfectly and that is probably the best tribute to Debian. I have now come to love the apt and the distro is extremely stable and secure.

My two cents:

I used the standard Debian Woody installer on two machines, one I was able to get to work, the other I never was able to get X working. The problem with Woddy is it is *so* far behind the times. It's got a 2.2 kernal, KDE 1. something, everything is hopelessy outdated, so even after a successful intstall, you're still going to spend a considerable amount of time updating.

There are several distros out there based on Debian that are MUCH easier to install. I've done it both ways, and I will never use the standard woody installer again, it's just not worth it. Why not use the best tools available? If you want to dig a hole, would you use a shovel or a backhoe if you had one?

I agree with previouis posters, Debian is the best distro I've tried. Even the "unstable" version is incredibly stable. I rarely have a problem. I use Knoppix exclusively now to install Debian, even on other people's computers. I just don't see *any* reason to use the woody installer. I haven't tried the new 100 meg Sarge installer yet, so I can't comment on that.

Apt-get makes upgrading software so easy. I always smile when I see others talking about their dependency problems when upgrading. I've seen several posts about upgrading to the new KDE 3.2 and what a pain it's been. I use Synaptic, which is a graphical front-end to apt-get, so I just click a couple buttons and all software packages on my distro are updated. Cool as snot!

try libranet, mephis
 

for those of you wanting to use Debian, the best installer i have tried for Debian so far has been Libranet...yeah i know it's not an installer, but after the very newbie friendly Libranet installer, you have a mixed Debian system and an upgrade to Sid (called 'unstable' but arguably more stable then other so called stable distro's out there) is just an apt-get -t unstable dist-upgrade away.

i have heard quite a few good things too about mephis linux. based on Debian and also a live CD installable to the HD...

...once you join the cult, it's hard to turn back... ;)

Before you give up completely on debian, you could try making a Knoppix live CD and using it. You can install it on your HD after you boot it, then apt-get works like a champ. It is less trouble than some other ways, and it does get the job done...

Lets see now, where is that website...

Oh yeah, take a look at: http://www.hostclub.net/reviews/knxinstall.html

It's not the guide I used, but the instructions are more or less the same...

Have a beer. It helps.

I recently installed debian for the first time. I had downloaded and attempted to install MANY of the other distros mentioned in this thread, and in the end it was Debian that worked for me.

I used the new sarge installer, and the only advice I can give is to NOT install ANYTHING using dselect or any of the other option-adding programs that the installer offers. Just go with the base system. Then, once it's installed, do an apt-get update, and then apt-get upgrade.

When you go the upgrade, it will download everything you need to get all of the latest goodies. AFTER that is complete, then again run dselect and pick anything else you want. Or, just use apt-get if that tickles your fancy.

I found the debian install to be an absolute breeze (well, I *did* have to get a few pointers from the good people over at linuxhelp.ca), and this is my first linux system EVER.

Gentoo was far too complicated for my newbie mind, and contrary to what I've heard some people say in this thread, the documentation on their site, though verbose, doesn't answer many of the questions that came to my mind as I did the install - it definitely assumes that you have previous linux knowledge.

Anyway, I read this thread yesterday and I wasn't going to reply, but tonight I stumbled across this page and thought that some of you might find it useful.

Oh, and if you're a newbie looking to get a non-GUI linux experience, I definitely recommend using Midnight Commander (apt-get install mc). It's a kickass program that allows you to easily navigate your filesystem, read documents, edit files, search for files and folders, ftp, etc etc etc. It's been invaluable to me as I get accustomed to the linux OS and folder structure.

I can see how Linux can be frustrating to a newbie. Especially Debian. Not getting good information., the sound doesn't work since all the newbie wants is to listen to his mp3s and go on the net...;-).
Listen to the other people here and get KNOPPIX. It's 1 CD only. I'm running Debain from a KNOPPIX install and I just upgraded my system with apt-get update. Took about 38 minutes but that's only because I am on a modem. The apt system is great. I already installed 2 apps.

This is a completely rediculous statement, and it tends to make me think you don't really know what you are talking about. If the original poster had problems with Debian's install, they will find the gentoo install almost impossible. It is harder, there is infinately more command line stuff, and it will take them about 8 hours to complete.

Where on earth did you come up with this rediculous FUD?

First time I ever installed debian - it was slink on an m68k (SE/30 to be precise) - it was my second linux distro (first being MKLinux DR3 on my G3). It was not too difficult to install.

A few years later - I installed it briefly on my IBM Thinkpad. I think it was either Potato or Woody - whatever stable was in late 2000. It worked - but was a PITA because either console mouse worked OR x11 mouse worked - but not both.

Anyway - I'm no newbie to installing Linux. I just tried installing Sarge (the 3/27/04 test snapshot). What a pain.

I'm installing from CD's I burned. I tell it not to worry about ppp and it gives me a dialog box saying that it has commented out some stuff in /etc/apt/apt.conf and I say OK and it stays there - hung.

Tried again - same thing.

Now I do have a dialup ISP - just in case I'm in a situation where I have to connect and my dsl is down. So I go ahead and feed it that info. It can't find my modem - so I tell it /dev/ttyS4 - 'cuz that's where it's at. Still can't succeed in dialing. So I switch to another console - and there is no /dev/ttyS4. MAKEDEV ttyS4. Now I'm in business - it dials - and I get the same freaking message.

Switch to a console again. ping yahoo.com - no response. Take a gander in /etc/resolv.conf - nothing there despite me having specified that info when it requested it. So I vi the file and enter the dns - now I can ping yahoo - now I can get past that step.

So anyway - it reads the data off of the CD to make its apt list or whatever - and then asks me to insert the CD and press enter when done. The CD is in there. I press enter. It asks me for the CD.

I switch to other console - the installer has neglected to put my cdrom in the /etc/fstab file. I fix that - and now it seems that everything is peachy. Or so I thought.

It boots into gdm and I get a nasty message about not being able to find my hostname. It set my /etc/hostname file to the hostname that the PPP connection it insisted on having gave me. I didn't set up any networking. So I chmod 000 /etc/init.d/gdm (easiest way to temporarily disable it), fix /etc/hostname (change it to localhost - which is in /etc/hosts) and reboot.

Got a console - type startx. KDE starts - I get through the configuration part - and then the KDE splashscreen starts. And stops at the wrench thing - and never gets any farther.

Just in case it was a permissions issue - I try startx again as root. Same thing. So I create a .xinitrc file to try twm to see if it has better luck. It starts just fine - opens my xterm and everything - but Mozilla will not work from within twm. In my LFS build - I have no issue with starting mozilla from within twm. Then the mouse goes berzerk and no matter what I do wants to shoot to the lower left hand corner.

I try again - despite using the same engine, epiphany works better in twm - but still doesn't fully work (it does from within a LFS environment) - and again, the mouse goes crazy.

Understand - this is a 3 button PS/2 mouse. It's not a fancy new technology mouse.

Let's just say I am not very impressed with Dabian Sarge. Could I fix the issues? Sure - but XF86Setup or XF86Config don't seem to be installed - and to be honest, I have better things to do than futz around fixing what should not be broken in the first place.

They need to focus more on getting a distro that installs properly and sets up properly - rather than having 12 binary CD's worth of packages.

KISS

I can see how Debian can be frustrating to a human.

I can see how Debian can be frustrating to anyone but a debian expert. Far cry for just saying "not for newbies". The phrase "not for newbies" has become an excuse for Debian's problems.