Install Problem with Knoppix 3.4
 

I'm trying to put Debian on my laptop, but without much success. I've never used Debian before, only Slackware and Redhat a little, so I don't know what the problem is. (I'm pretty much a n00b. :o) I've searched the internet and a bunch of other forums, but I can't figure out what's wrong. I thought I would try this forum because it seems like there are a lot of people who really know what they're doing here.

What I want is to do a basic install ("beginner install" it's called in the installation script), with 4GB for / on /dev/hda3, and 4GB for /home on /dev/hda4. The installer won't allow any other partitions other than the root partition, though, so you have to add those yourself manually. After the install I add:
to the fstab, mount the partition manually to create user accounts, and then reboot. But when I try to log in as the user KDE fails to load, giving all kinds of "DCOP" errors one after another. I tried to save them, but I wasn't logged in so I couldn't, and I didn't write them down. I guess I can get those if anyone thinks it would help. I did save one that I got when I tried to remove the account to test something else, though, it said:

a couple of times, and then removed the account anyway! The same thing when I tried to create an account again. But I didn't know I needed RPC portmapper to mount a local filesystem. ???

I had it working once but I redid it, because I thought I had figured out the problem and I wanted to test doing it again. That's where I got that fstab line from -- when it worked it was using that one. But since then I have not been able to get it to work again, and I really don't want my /home directory on the same actual partition as the root partition.

Does anyone think they could help me figure out what i'm doing wrong? I could provide more information if need be, I just don't know what to add. Like I said, I don't really know where else to turn at this point.

Thanks for reading!

You can get the dcop errors when the user id you are trying to log in does not have a home dir or the permissions are screwed up.

Login as root and then umount your second partition (umount /dev/hda4) and mount it under /mnt/hda4, then move anything in the /home/ dir to /mnt/hda4/, now you should avoid the dcop errors. Check in /mnt/hda4 that the user IDs are okay and there are not some numbers listed instead of the user name when you do an 'ls -l'. Also see that the user or group is not root or that the user does have read/write/execute permissiojns to the directory. Check inside the dir also 'ls -la'. If this was not it, repost and someone might have a trickier solutuion.

Exactly! All the home directories are on /dev/hda4, and /dev/hda4 isn't getting mounted at boot up. So my question is: how do i get Debian to mount /dev/hda4 at boot up where I want it to be, at /home?

Thanks for any help.

Interesting! I think I'm getting closer thanks to your suggestion.

The /dev/hda4 partition gets mounted with permissions set for "root staff." There's also some weird s value in the permissions:

Now at least I can log in as root, mount the partition, log out, and then log back in as the user. But I still can't get the partition to mount at boot. I tried to add my username to staff in the /etc/group file, but it didn't work.

What do I do now? Can I add staff to the fstab file instead of user? Or how do I get rid of this staff group and have it be able to mount the partition at boot?

THANKS!

Nope, I guess that wasn't it, either. The staff group is normal for the /home directory. :(

Why won't Debian mount my #@&%$! /home directory????!??!??! It seems like such a simple thing: mount /dev/hda4 at /home. So why won't it do it??? This is really getting me pissed off. :mad:

OK, Cool it, calm down, don't panic.

If Knoppix doesn't work for you, there are other ways to install Debian. Have you tried the latest beta version of the Sarge installer yet?

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

After the initial installation, do "apt-get update" && "apt-get dist-upgrade". (If you haven't created /etc/apt/sources.list, do "apt-setup" first.)

Basically, what you need to install before anything else are 1) the base system, 2) x-window-system-core, and 3) the wm/de of your choice.

After that, just launch Aptitude and install all the software you want. :cool:

I've heard debian can be difficult to install, especially on a notebook. That's why I tried knoppix. I'm a noob, and this is hard enough! Besides, how do I know debian won't do the same exact thing to me after I go to all that trouble? Doesn't it make more sense to figure out why this OS won't mount my /dev/hda4 partition? I mean, that's not normal for it not to mount, is it? :confused:

Just out of curiosity, what other operating systems you have installed on your hard disk, since the debian partition is /dev/hda4? (There are probably at least /dev/hda1, /dev/hda2 and /dev/hda3). Have you made "extended" partitions or are all your partitions "primary" partitions? Is Debian the first Linux distro you've installed on this hard disk, or have you installed Knoppix/Debian on a partition already formatted by another distro? Did the Knoppix installer give you any error messages?

I've heard that the Knoppix installer works in most cases, but it's a quite separate project from the genuine Debian installer:

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

So, even if the Knoppix installer fails to meet your requirements, there's still a good chance that the new Sarge installler does a considerably better job, in this respect.

The base line is: What've you got to lose? [I'm really sorry there's no picture yet for shark's teeth.]


PS. Please remember, that you'll need to boot the Debian Sarge installation disk with the "linux26" command in order to get the latest Linux kernel.

The notebook came with XP, and I have that on a 5GB partition hda1, and then I have a windows fat32 partition to use for data and programs at hda2. But I want to use that mainly for "failsafe" compatability in case I am out somewhere and need windows, or for when I need to fax, and I want to mostly use linux 90% of the time.

Knoppix is the only distro I've tried to install on the hard disk. As I said, I had it working that one time, with the same disk configuration, and then I redid it but it hasn't been able to work since. So I know it can work, I just can't figure out what is preventing the hda4 from mounting. No error messages during install that I could see.

If no one knows the answer, I might just have to try the debian installer and hope I can get that to work. I really don't want to use Fedora or Mandrake because I want to learn how Debian works. I guess I am not making much progress in that respect, though. :p I would just put Slackware on here, but I have that on my home computer and I want to try something new.

What about this: Do you think it would be a bad idea to just make one big partition for linux and use the default /home directory as it is set up by the knoppix-installer?

1.Knoppix is NOT Debian.
It is based on debian, but is a mixture of different versions of debian: stable, sarge, sid and experimental. So stop blaming debian. If you want to install debian, download cd1 and 5 and install Debian.

2. the Knoppix installer is a brand-new beta one, i couldn't use it to install it to the hd. I have knoppix 3.3 installed to my second hdd with the previous installer.

3. If i were you i would go to the knoppix forums at knoppix.net or the #knoppix in the IRC.

Just for the record, I usually use SystemRescueCd (that is based on Gentoo) to partition my disks, because it has BOTH the QTParted and the GAG bootloader (which I use). The partitions it records for my main laptop are:

/dev/hda1 fat16 23,5 MB
/dev/hda2 ntfs 6,50 GB
(these came with the initial installation, although I've shrinked the ntfs partition a bit with QTParted)
/dev/hda3 extended 4,50 GB
/dev/hda5 linux-swap 400 MB
/dev/hda6 reiserfs 4,11 GB
/dev/hda4 netbsd 7,60 GB

My Linux partition is usually for Debian Sid, although sometimes I test what happens in Arch Linux. The BSD partition is mainly for NetBSD current, although sometimes I test FreeBSD current also. The WindowsXP partition usually stays, because I'm currently doing there some wordprocessing with MS Word and I'm getting paid for this stuff. But after my work is done (might take 6 months or so), I'm seriously considering to erase the Windows partition and continuing my writing work either in the Linux partition or in the BSD partition (or maybe in both). But first I need to buy a laser printer that is supported in both Linux and BSD. So, at the moment, this partition scheme stays. This is just for the record.

1. Knoppix is not a Debian system?

2. But I had knoppix 3.4 installed and working perfectly with the new installer. I'm just asking why I can't have that work again.

3. I went to the knoppix forums already. No one knew the answer there, either. The forum says once knoppix is installed to the hard drive it is considered debian and not knoppix, and that if you're having problems you should go to a debian forum. So I came here, to LinuxQuestions debian forum. But it seems that no one anywhere knows what controls mounting the partitions -- which I find kind of strange, but then again, maybe not because I don't know, either. :p

For now, until I can figure out how to get knoppix/debian to mount the partitions in the fstab, I am just logging in as root, manually mounting the partition, logging out again, and then logging back in as the user. That is at least allowing me to run the system until I can fix it. Thanks for the replies.

macondo is correct in making the distinction between Knoppix and Debian proper. Knoppix is primarily a live-CD while Debian is primarily a system installed on hard disk.

That's the difference and the people in the Knoppix forums are also right in saying that you meet different challenges after you've installed Knoppix on hard disk. Knoppix is optimized for working as a live-CD and, although you can use Knoppix as an easy Debian installer, the Knoppix system installed on hard disk is somewhat different from a Debian system installed on hard disk. Your problems are very likely due to this difference. Once you've installed Knoppix on hard disk, your challenge is to make it as much like a genuine Debian system as you can. In this attempt, you need to acknowledge the subtle differences between Knoppix and Debian proper. After you've got your Knoppix installation on hard disk properly working, you've actually got a Debian system.

The main differences, as far as I know, between Knoppix installed on hard disk and Debian are that Knoppix uses heavily modified init scripts and, also, Knoppix uses experimental packages that might break your installed system when using apt-get. The problems you've encountered so far could be, perhaps, corrected by adjusting the scripts in /etc/init.d/ and /etc/rc{number}.d/.

Another approach would be to make a re-install using Kanotix (that is Knoppix modified to be more compatible with the Debian proper) or the Debian Sarge beta installer

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

This is not to say that Knoppix installed on hard disk wouldn't be a viable option, but you should be prepared to meet the kind of problems you describe, because Knoppix is primarily designed to be used from CD.

More specifically, you need to take a closer look at the links in /etc/rcS.d/ and /etc/rc{number}.d/ (that point to the scripts in /etc/init.d/) and to make them Debian-compatible.

So in other words, you don't know, either. :p

No seriously, that's all very interesting. I understand the difference between debian and knoppix better now, thanks. But all I really want to do is find out what script is controlling the mounting process at boot and preventing knoppix from mounting my /dev/hda4 partition at /home. If anyone knows what controls that, I'd appreciate finding out what it is. I'll post back if I find out. Thanks.

Lately, we have been invaded by Slackware trolls, at least three in the past week, the latest 'slacken' and now you, 'slackhack'.

When i installed slackware, i went to their site, read the documentation, google for more of it, went to the newsgroups, and #slackware in the irc. I installed it, no problem, i was ready, if i had problems i didn't go to Arch, College Linux, or Vector, i went to Slackware. Same with Knoppix, go to Knoppix, and this thing that the people in Knoppix do not know is hogwash on your part.

I just went to the knoppix channel in the IRC, and they told me you can partition using the root and swap and add the other partitions later, they were helpful and knowledgeable.

Here's the transcript: my nick is 'macpato'

<macpato> wizzard: if you try to install knoppix to the hd, you can only partition those two partitions, no /tmp /var /home , that's what i meant, now with the 3.4 version you say you can?
<wizzard_> k, now I gotcha. Well you can add them later...
<macpato> wizzard_: how do you do that?
<wizzard_> you create all the partitions you want
<wizzard_> then install knoppix just like you always do
<wizzard_> then move everything in /home to the partition you want /home to be on
<wizzard_> and create an entry in your /etc/fstab so that partition is mounted in /home
<wizzard_> same with the other partitions

Time elapsed: < 5 minutes

Tell me you are not trolling, slacker!