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Old 09-23-2004, 05:21 PM   #1
michapma
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"discover" -- now no more apt-get


With much reading, discussion, anticipation, enjoyment, planning and... work, I've gotten Debian 3.0r2 installed. The basics, no software selected other than the base package.

So I set about getting an X server and some window and desktop managers going. I think I'll run Gnome as default, hmm. So I read section 9.4 of the "Debian Reference", and find that I should install discover, mdetect and read-edid before installing the server. So, I launched dselect and found "discover". It listed some other dependent packages, and I agreed by hitting Enter. I then installed them and also ran configure the packages. Next I returned to select "mdetect". I found it and went to install it. Here's where the problem comes: I can no longer read from the CD-ROM. This seems to be the result of having installed and configured discover. (I did that before installing x-window-system if that makes any difference.)

I now have no idea how I am to be able to get back the ability to read packages from the Debian CD. I can't mount it.

I've done a lot of research on my own to get Debian installed and configured, but the manuals and the Debian "Bible" don't seem to help. Can any of you?

Please? (making pathetic Bambi eyes)

Thanks,
Mike

EDIT: I didn't think it had anything to do with it, but I suppose it may -- I'm using the default kernel, I believe that would make it 2.2.

Last edited by michapma; 09-23-2004 at 06:27 PM.
 
Old 09-23-2004, 07:15 PM   #2
macondo
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"I can no longer read from the CD-ROM."

hmm, read what? the installation is over.

"This seems to be the result of having installed and configured discover. (I did that before installing x-window-system if that makes any difference.)"

Discover got nothing to do with it, it is there for auto-detecting. You are supposed to do that before installing x-window-system, so you did it right.

Pull the cd out and reboot, you should get xdm, login your username and password, you should get to your window manager if you have it installed; stay away from tasksel and deselect at this point in the game.

OR

Do a re-install and this time install the kernel 2.4

at the boot prompt type:

bf24

and follow the instructions from the article.

The Very Verbose Debian Installation Walkthrough by Clinton De Young
http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2016

easy reading and non-tech, it will save your installation.
 
Old 09-23-2004, 07:20 PM   #3
amyloid
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Go through the /proc/ide directory. See if you can find a device with a cdrom driver. Maybe it was moved (or your fstab was misconfigured).

I've never used 2.2 does it have modules
(lsmod | grep cd should pull out something)?

There is a 2.4 kernel option. I could be more helpful with that.

or

The sarge installer works really well (if that is an option/alternative).
 
Old 09-23-2004, 07:42 PM   #4
michapma
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Glad I got a reply tonight before I head to bed.

macondo, I can no longer read anything from the CD-ROM. I know that discover is not meant to have anything to do with this, only the auto-detection. But since I installed it and ran configure from the dselect menu, I just can't use the CD-ROM to load the rest of the packages -- say for instance, you think I might want x-window-system in addition to mdetect and read-edid? If I try for example this:

> apt-get install mdetect

Then it tells me what to expect in terms of space and so on (can't recall info and I'm posting this from SUSE), and prompts me to install the official i386 binary-1 CD. With that CD in there, I hit Enter and it tells me I can't read from the CD. This goes on endlessly until I ctl+c out. So essentially I can continue to select packages to install, but cannot get them from the source to install them.

To make things more clear: I was in the stages of prepping X installation. I don't have any X software installed or read from the CD yet. If it helps, I noted that the version of discover is 1.1-6, and I installed its dependent packages with it (ash, libc6 or libc6.1, and libdiscover1 according to the docs, and that seems pretty familiar). This problem appeared exactly after I: 1) selected discover and its dependents with dselect, marking them with + and then Enter; 2) selecting to install selected packages from the dselect menu; 3) selecting to configure packages from the dselect menu. I then proceeded to try to load mdetect -- next on my list -- and then I couldn't read it from the CD.

I am unable to mount the CD. (I may be doing it wrong, tried to copy the info from fstab though) Rebooting didn't resolve anything. (Feel like a Windows user on that comment...)

amyloid, I'll try that, but I don't see how/why installing discover would mess with fstab. The entry is definitely present in fstab, and /cdrom exists. Can't tell you much more yet as I don't know all that much about how Linux mounts the hardware. The Debian Bible isn't too helpful so far, but maybe I'll find help. There's a guy who's quite experienced with Debian at work, so I can hopefully ask him tomorrow.

If I can't get this resolved, I'll probably reinstall Debian for the 3rd time. Re-installing seems to be akin to rebooting Windows at this stage of the game. (No that's not an intentional insult, it's just due to my lack of knowledge.)

I don't think I'm ready to move to 2.4 or Sarge until I can get at least X and the Internet working on 3.0r2.

Thanks for the ideas,
Mike
 
Old 09-23-2004, 07:45 PM   #5
michapma
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Quote:
Originally posted by macondo
and follow the instructions from the article.

The Very Verbose Debian Installation Walkthrough by Clinton De Young
http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2016

easy reading and non-tech, it will save your installation.
Good article. But it doesn't address my question, just guides through the normal process, which I seem to have slid out of...
 
Old 09-23-2004, 08:15 PM   #6
macondo
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Pay attention: you missed the point, forget about your present problem, you are wasting time, you installed the wrong kernel and used deselect/tasksel.

instead of re-inventing the wheel, install the 2.4 kernel, still is woody, sarge is better, uptodated apps, follow the instructions from the article, and you will have no problems, instead of wasting a couple of days, you can have Debian in 45 minutes.

Sarge will be the 'stable' version in a few weeks, anyway.

Last edited by macondo; 09-23-2004 at 08:21 PM.
 
Old 09-24-2004, 05:29 AM   #7
michapma
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Hi macondo,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

For the record, I am very much paying attention. So much so that it's not just about getting Debian installed as quickly as possible. I'm trying to learn how things work, so I don't mind so much if I have to solve a problem -- having problems is one of the best ways of learning to deal with them. But I'll admit that it would be easy for me to miss something.

There are some things I don't understand or am missing about your suggested approach.

Quote:
Discover got nothing to do with it, it is there for auto-detecting.
You are of course correct in saying that discover is irrelevant. It just so happened that I discovered that my CD-ROM is no longer being read when I tried to use dselect. So the packages I was trying to install had nothing to do with anything. The question I should have been asking is why my CD-ROM isn't working, or perhaps what is wrong with the CD itself.

It doesn't make sense to me that the CD is messed up, since I installed the system very recently with the same CD. It makes sense to me that, in contrast to what was before, something is now wrongly configured regarding the drive.


Quote:
hmm, read what? the installation is over.
The installation of the OS is over, but installation of all of the packages I'd like -- from X server to TeX to possibly a new kernel or any package I could think of that isn't already on the hard-disk -- are not.

Quote:
Pull the cd out and reboot, you should get xdm, login your username and password, you should get to your window manager if you have it installed; stay away from tasksel and deselect at this point in the game.
I am past the initial use of tasksel and dselect during the normal installation process. I did reboot, I did pull out the CD and a number of other things to see why I can't read from it. The X server and window manager are both not installed. That's why I need dselect, but the problem with the CD-ROM prevents my installing of anything else than the base packages (since I didn't select anything with tasksel or dselect during the installation).

Quote:
OR

Do a re-install and this time install the kernel 2.4

at the boot prompt type:

bf24

and follow the instructions from the article.

The Very Verbose Debian Installation Walkthrough by Clinton De Young
http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2016

easy reading and non-tech, it will save your installation.
Now this is something I really don't understand. Why, if I can't read from the CD-ROM although I could previously, should I need a new kernel? Woody 3.0r2 is a stable distribution; why should I not be able to install Debian from it as normal? Okay, you elaborated on it in your next post.

Quote:
Pay attention: you missed the point, forget about your present problem, you are wasting time, you installed the wrong kernel and used deselect/tasksel.

instead of re-inventing the wheel, install the 2.4 kernel, still is woody, sarge is better, uptodated apps, follow the instructions from the article, and you will have no problems, instead of wasting a couple of days, you can have Debian in 45 minutes.

Sarge will be the 'stable' version in a few weeks, anyway.
But I still don't see the point. Why is having used the default 2.2 kernel that 3.0r2 "installing the wrong kernel"? What's wrong about using the default kernel of a distribution? But I guess that you're not addressing the problem of the CD-ROM at all -- the kernel has nothing to do with that -- I think you're saying that I should forget any and all problems that I have now and start from scratch again, this time using a newer and better system. So the point that I seem to have "missed" is this: stop screwing around with the current standard distribution, get on board and use the system everyone is already using anyway. (Btw, I am not 100% sure what kernel I actually have, not being used to fooling with OS kernels. I chose the default, and as I recall that was 2.2. I wouldn't have chosen 2.4 unless it were the default.)

That's fine and dandy, I guess I'll go do that then. I'll have to up on how to do that. (You make it sound trivial to use the testing version; well maybe it is.) But I'd still like to learn how to fix my CD-ROM in the situation I have now. Not for the purpose of reinventing the wheel, but I think it would teach me a lot about how the CD-ROM system and mounting drives in general work. I'm a newbie after all, I should be learning stuff. Guess I should ask around somewhere else about that though.

But for what it's worth, and since amyloid gave me some suggestions, I stayed up late trying to figure things out and wrote down some stuff. The message that apt-get (called by dselect when trying to install discover, mdetect and read-edid) returns is something like this:

Code:
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following <packages that are waiting, blah blah>
<more stuff about prompting me to enter Official Woody 3.0r2 Binary-1>

0%[Working]cdrom: open failed.
Media change: Please insert the disc labeled '<blah blah>' in the drive '/cdrom' and press enter
So the message indicates that something is up with the CD-ROM drive or the disc itself. Okay, with the drive in the CD-ROM, I enter

> mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /cdrom

and get the response

Code:
mount: block device /dev/cdrom is write-protected, mounting read-only
cdrom: open failed.
mount: no medium found
Sounds like he finds the device, but the CD is bad? Again as above, that doesn't make sense. (But see below.)

Following amyloid's advice, I entered:

> lsmod | grep cd

It just returned to the prompt without showing any results. The contents of /proc/ide are:
* drivers;
* directories ide0 and ide1
* the following links: hda, hdb, hdc, hdd, which point to ide0/hda, ide0/hdb, ide1/hdc and ide1/hdd.

The contents for example of /proc/ide/ide1/hdc is the file driver, which as listed by "cat driver" is:
ide-cdrom version 4.58

It looks like maybe I need to test the CD-ROM to see whether it is somehow corrupted. I thought I had brought it to work today to check out, but I had an empty case, looks like I left it on the desk or in the CD-ROM drive. Shouldn't stay up so late! Anyway it got to be too late last night by the time I realized this, so I haven't tried reading other CDs or testing this CD on another machine or with another system.

Thanks again,
Mike
 
Old 09-24-2004, 09:17 AM   #8
macondo
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"Now this is something I really don't understand. Why, if I can't read from the CD-ROM although I could previously, should I need a new kernel? Woody 3.0r2 is a stable distribution; why should I not be able to install Debian from it as normal? Okay, you elaborated on it in your next post."

kernel 2.2 does not support certain things, although, i have never had any trouble with it.

The point is, we don't know what you did wrong, nor do you for that matter.
So, my suggestion was to start from scratch, install the kernel 2.4, use apt-get instead of deselect/tasksel, keep it simple, later on, move to sarge that will be the official 'stable' version.

that's all, good luck!

Last edited by macondo; 09-24-2004 at 01:27 PM.
 
Old 09-24-2004, 09:32 AM   #9
michapma
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Thanks again.
 
Old 09-24-2004, 10:12 AM   #10
Slack_Master
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Use the new installer. It cuts a lot of time, it works great too.

Again, don't use taskel or dselect, which now comes under the guise of "pick your own packages". Choose desktop environment, plus if you need SQL/DNS/Web servers, check those off.

However, once you get up and running, make sure to apt-get devel libraries and compilers since these will not be added.

HTH & Good Luck
 
Old 09-24-2004, 10:26 AM   #11
michapma
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After reading several different pages, I'm only 90% sure: is this the correct location to download full-CD images for sarge, with the 2.4 kernel?

http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/cd-images/debian-weekly/i386/

Thanks,
Mike
 
Old 09-24-2004, 10:30 AM   #12
michapma
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Hi Slack_Master,

I read about the installer. Not sure if I understand it or it saves a lot of time, as I can download a full CD image in under 4 minutes. Plus, I'm not yet sure I understand all what the installer should do. It loads the installation kernel I guess (sorry if I've got the concept wrong), and then points to a source, be it CD or Internet. Since I can burn a CD and then boot from it, why not go with the .iso?

Also, I notice there are 14 Sarge .iso images, significantly more than the 7 of Woody. What's with that? Do I still just need the first CD and then can download the rest once I have the Internet configured?

Thanks again all,
Mike
 
Old 09-24-2004, 11:32 AM   #13
joesbox
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i have no idea of what may of happened or didn't not happen when installing woody but here is what i suggest. (and to let you know i totally believe in figuring out a problem instead of finding a work around, but since you have worked on it for a day and have not gotten any real advice on how to fix it i suggest you move on)
any way, i have two links listed in my sig that will help and make the debian install easier until you get your feet wet with this distro. one is the install that you already got the link for. this makes the install very easy and hard to make mistakes if you go step by step. http://news.net-hub.com/linux/ is a blog that i listed that will give you a very general walkthru of my install on the laptop. since you are not working on a laptop (i am assuming here) then some of it will not pertain to you. but it will give you a general idea of where i deviated from the install instructions. the other link listed below will walk you thru upgrading from the default 2.2.20 kernel moving to the latest 2.4.x or 2.6.x (which ever you wish) and make it very easy also.
if for any reason the links do not work i have a hard copy (i use the walk thru everytime i install deb on a system) of both the install and kernel upgrade. i can just scan them in and email them to you. i hope that this helps. i know it isn't a fix to your cd prob and it isn't getting sarge or sid installed but it is a work toward getting there.
 
Old 09-24-2004, 01:06 PM   #14
jsmarshall85
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i would either reinstall with what you have using the 2.4 kernel, type bf24 at the first prompt you get or go here and get the net-installer. you can install the even newer 2.6 kernel with this (typing linux26 at the first prompt). this installer puts down a base debian install of sarge (testing, which like macondo said is going stable very soon). the iso file is about 114 meg. you can choose packages to put down or none at all and do everything via apt-get using your sources.list file----which brings me to your problem of installing things from the cd, can you not just edit the sources.list file and comment out the cdrom line and put other lines in to pull packages off the internet? for example here is my sources.list file:

Code:
#deb file:///cdrom/ sarge main

deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free

#deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main
of course change unstable in both lines to testing to get sarge (unstable would be sid)
that should let you get packages from the net. type this first before you install anything

Code:
apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
that will update your install to sarge, but you might need an updated kernel first, not sure how well sarge stuff runs on the 2.2 kernel

hope i didnt confuse the issue further
 
Old 09-24-2004, 01:32 PM   #15
amyloid
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Well, everyone has given reasonable options about how you can do the install by starting from scratch.

There is nothing wrong with using the 2.2 kernel, but the newer 2.4 and 2.6 kernels have more capability and support more hardware.

That being said:

lsmod | grep cd
producing no output means, there is no cd driver module loaded.

I have no idea if that means anything in a 2.2 kernel! In a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel most drivers like this are compiled as modules in Debian by default (of course one could always change that).

You can look at /boot/"config-2.2something" This is the configure file for the kernel you have loaded on your box.

grep IDECD /boot/"config-2.2something" and you should see
ALLCAPSSTRING_IDECD=y (meaning compiled in kernel, versus m meaning compiled as module). If it is set to m and you don't have the module loaded you would type
modprobe cdrom
But I don't think that's the case here, just extra info.

I would check /dev/cdrom

ls -l /dev/cdrom it should be a symlink (or series of symlinks) that ultimately should point to hdc (which is the drive that has the cdrom driver associated with it - you got that from /proc).

If that's fine, my guess is your media is messed up.

Take any other CD that has data on it (not an audio music cd)
and mount it. See if that mounts and look in /cdrom.

Good luck.
 
  


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