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I've been using Arch for the last year or two, and have become very accommodated to it.
Recently I got a new laptop and decided to install Bodhi (a stripped down Ubuntu) instead of Arch. So far I'm pleased except that I can't get used to aptitude. The differences are subtle, yes, but they still don't feel right. I understand I can't just take pacman and install it on Debian, but is there any way I could install another package manager? Possibly something more pacman-like?
It's hard to come up with suggestions when you don't say what exactly you don't like about aptitude. You could try apt-get and see if that suits you. If not try to explain what exactly you're looking for.
jdk
Synaptic is not a different package manager. It is a GUI for apt that is supposed to make package management easier. Is it similar to pacman? I do not know.
Pacman is a command line tool, and I'm not a personal fan of necessary components being GUI.
As to what I like about it, it's a little hard to explain. It's like switching to a different keyboard after a few years, you get so used to the old one, the new one just feels wrong.
I guess if I had to name specifics, I like how the arguments are all one letter abbreviations and the way it displays information (aptitude feels very crowded to me).
Also, I looked at cupt and as far as I can tell, it's more or less the same as aptitude.
The bottom line is that different systems are, well, different. Different systems also use different package managers. If you switch to something different, be it a different OS, file manager, whatever, the best approach is to learn how to use the new thing and get accustomed to it. It will not take long to become accustomed to apt. It is easy to use with few commands necessary to know. (For most people.) The best advice is to just use it, until you become used to it.
The bottom line is that different systems are, well, different. Different systems also use different package managers. If you switch to something different, be it a different OS, file manager, whatever, the best approach is to learn how to use the new thing and get accustomed to it. It will not take long to become accustomed to apt. It is easy to use with few commands necessary to know. (For most people.) The best advice is to just use it, until you become used to it.
I actually thought about that before posting this, but then I thought, for an operating system that more or less exists on the idea of "It is whatever you want it to be!" the "Get used to it" philosophy didn't really hold water.
Moreover, I found something fairly promising: pacapt.
Basically, it's a pacman-like wrapper for apt-get, and while I'm still doing some initial tests, it looks promising.
for an operating system that more or less exists on the idea of "It is whatever you want it to be!" the "Get used to it" philosophy didn't really hold water.
The same could be said about mixing Testing and Unstable with Stable repositories and using Buntu/Mint repos. Do whatever you want, but if you do something unwise, you get to keep the pieces. In other words, there is a limit to "whatever the user wants."
I guess if I had to name specifics, I like how the arguments are all one letter abbreviations and the way it displays information (aptitude feels very crowded to me).
If I understand correctly, you are unhappy using commands like
Code:
aptitude update
aptitude safe-upgrade
and would prefer something like
Code:
aptitude -u
aptitude -su
If you are after the "It is whatever you want it to be" I'd suggest you download the source code and modify aptitude to your liking. That's how aptitude will be "whatever you want it to be". Problem solved.
The second part of your complaint: "the way it displays information (aptitude feels very crowded to me)." reminds me of the dialogue between Emperor Joseph II and Mozart. The emperor says, "My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect." to which Mozart replies, "Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?" So if aptitude is too crowded, what exactly would you like to see removed. And why not do it yourself instead of complaining about it? "It is whatever you want it to be." does not mean that someone else will do the work for you.
jdk
If you are after the "It is whatever you want it to be" I'd suggest you download the source code and modify aptitude to your liking. That's how aptitude will be "whatever you want it to be". Problem solved.
Wouldn't that be even more unstable and untested than the solution I found? I know you didn't say that yourself, but you posting this reply seems to indicate that you disapprove of the solution I found.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkaye
The second part of your complaint... And why not do it yourself instead of complaining about it? "It is whatever you want it to be." does not mean that someone else will do the work for you.
My intention was never to complain. I understand many people like aptitude the way it is. Notice how I never say anything like, "Aptitude should work like pacman." I'm simply looking for a way to make myself more comfortable.
I never asked anyone to modify the aptitude source code on my behave, I was asking more along the lines of whether or not something like this existed already; and as it turns out, one does.
If you're happy, then that's fine. Nothing more to say. As a service to others you could mark this thread as [SOLVED] using the Thread Tools menu above your initial post.
Have fun.
jdk
Distribution: Debian Testing, Stable, Sid and Manjaro, Mageia 3, LMDE
Posts: 2,628
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dornith
Pacman is a command line tool, and I'm not a personal fan of necessary components being GUI.
As to what I like about it, it's a little hard to explain. It's like switching to a different keyboard after a few years, you get so used to the old one, the new one just feels wrong.
I guess if I had to name specifics, I like how the arguments are all one letter abbreviations and the way it displays information (aptitude feels very crowded to me).
Also, I looked at cupt and as far as I can tell, it's more or less the same as aptitude.
Package managers are developed by distros to deal with installing packages in an automated way rather than having the user compile from source. They also deal with depends for you.
Pacman is a fine tool. pacapt may be. It is not in the Debian repo and should therefore be looked at dubiously simply from a security stand point. That said it will probably work but will only be a type of emulator. It will not do some things that pacman would and it certainly will not do things that dpkg, the backend of apt-get, will do if you run into problems.
You would be much better off to either stick with Arch or learn to use the APT (Advanced Packaging Tool) system.
Aptitude is a wonderful tool too. It is actually not the one recommended by Debian anymore though. They recommend the use of apt-get. I am not trying to start an arguement about the relative value of aptitude and apt-get and will not participate in such a thing. For one thing it is hard to argue on both sides of an issue. I like them both very much. Just pointing out the policy of Debian.
Aptitude will give you a lot more options to go with the base command of "aptitude whatever". To get similar performance with apt-? you will need to use apt-get, apt-cache, apt-mark and so forth.
PCLos uses the RPM package (Red hat Package Manager) system but uses Synaptic and apt-get to run it. This is simple to use and works great until someone gets a screwed system and needs to straighten it out. They then have no knowledge for the underlying system they are using and the APT tools are not present. This leads to Windows like reinstall scenarios rather than getting the system back in shape, perhaps with only one or two cli commands.
I am not trying to start an arguement about the relative value of aptitude and apt-get and will not participate in such a thing. For one thing it is hard to argue on both sides of an issue. I like them both very much.
+1
I use aptitude for normal updating and apt-get to fix aptitude when the dreaded hash mismatch messages start to appear during an update.
jdk
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