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Old 02-01-2005, 09:22 AM   #1
pingu
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A last chance for Debian?


At last I have a job which provides me with a fast internet-connection.
Now I want to change my home-distro from Mandrake (which was good up to 9.1) to something else, my main problem has been installation of programs.
With only a modem-connection I have to install every new program I want from CD, I quickly realized apt is completely useless for such tasks. urpmi isn't very good, but usable.
But now I can carry my home-puter to my office and install whatever I want!

So I installed Libranet 2.8 on a test computer at work, then issued
# apt-get update
# apt-get dist-upgrade (taken from memory, upgrading started anyhow)

I was asked if I wanted to change language/locales, answered 'yes' and the terminal died.
I had to kill all processes on that terminal and restarted upgrading.
This time I didn't change language, things went on - but gdm no longer works, system can't read files with Swedish special characters.
I tried to fix it, but no success.

The 'apt-get update' command listed some resources/url's as not existing, but obviously didn't remove them.

Now I have tried Libranet, Debian, Ubuntu and a few other Debian-based distro's and I can't say I'm impressed by apt.
Also no Debian-based distro can use my modem, but I might get ADSL at home instead.

But before completely giving up Debian, for some reason I want to give it a last chance.
So what do you say, folks? When apt works it's great, but for me too often it doesn't.
Also, I hope I can convince people at the school where I now work to try Linux on some clients. When the time comes I have to know which distro to use, I don't think I'll get a second chance!
 
Old 02-01-2005, 09:49 AM   #2
ShakyJake
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You should give Gentoo a try, as long as you have a relatively fast processor. Software installation (after the initial OS install) is a snap and, in my experiences, always works.
 
Old 02-01-2005, 10:10 AM   #3
PBSchmidt
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First: in a dist-upgrade, there are several things replaced. If a new locale system got into your system, its setup script maybe has started to replace something - very bad it died on the way, so there might be incompletely installed locales on your box.

If you have missing apt sources, I can imagine that not all dependencies will be met properly - but I am not sure about that. Try apt-get with --fix-missing.

Your locales could be fixed by dpkg-reconfigure locales, this resets all the stuff modified manually by the distribution given default configurations (+ what you select in the dialogs following).

A dist-upgrade is always a tricky thing to do, I always make sure before when to do it, why to do it and if the apt sources are responding.

Sorry if this is no great help or solace, but maybe this helps you.

My EUR 0.02

Peter
 
Old 02-01-2005, 01:04 PM   #4
Mara
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Moved: This thread is more suitable in Debian forum and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves. It seems it's the best forum for apt-get question.
 
Old 02-01-2005, 02:44 PM   #5
macondo
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Re: A last chance for Debian?

Quote:
Originally posted by pingu

But before completely giving up Debian, for some reason I want to give it a last chance.
So what do you say, folks? When apt works it's great, but for me too often it doesn't.
Also, I hope I can convince people at the school where I now work to try Linux on some clients. When the time comes I have to know which distro to use, I don't think I'll get a second chance!

There is no easy way out...

1. Read sections 1,2,3, and 7 of the APT-HOWTO
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ap.../index.en.html

2. Install Sarge using the instructions from:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hreadid=261506

3. Configure Sarge with the instructions from the sticky at the top of this page:

Debian Configuration Post-Install

Read it ALL, it will save you time, and you might even learn a thing or two.

Last edited by macondo; 02-01-2005 at 02:46 PM.
 
Old 02-01-2005, 10:28 PM   #6
ironwalker
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Never saw apt-get dist-upgrade as being hard or tricky.



Reading the apt-get how to is key
I use some tools with apt
Debian does not come with all available locales pre-compiled. Check /usr/lib/locale to see which locales (besides the default "C") are compiled for your system. If the one you need is not present, you have two options:

* Edit /etc/locale.gen to add the desired locale, then run locale-gen as root to compile it. See locale-gen(8) and the manpages listed in its "SEE ALSO" section.
* Run dpkg-reconfigure locales to reconfigure the locales package. Or if it is not already installed, installing locales will invoke the debconf interface to let you choose needed locales and compile the database.

I choose only the us locales.
Excellent readme for post debian install;
http://qref.sourceforge.net/Debian/r...h-tune.en.html

I use netselect or apt-netselect to generate a apt/sources.list file what it does is choose the debiaon mirrors fastest for you and where you are.Apt-netselect uses ping which isnt a great way of decideing fast mirror.

apt-listchanges
apt-listbugs
I use clean and autoclean
I make sure only unstable are the only mirrors in my sources.list I do not use kde-cvs pakages.
If you dont want experimental or unstable just # them out.

Understanding apt entirely is key.
Sometimes understand an update site can go down as did this past weekend.
 
Old 02-02-2005, 05:00 AM   #7
pingu
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Hmmm...
Sure, I'll continue to read about apt.
But this is not the first time apt-get screws up, it feels a bit fragile...
And I have tried update, --fix-thisandthat etc, with no success. Will give apt another try for home, though.

Concerning distro for school - I can't install a system that requires a Debian/apt expert. If installing applications/updating system needs comprehensive knowledge then I will have to go for some other distro. You have to realize that this system will be compared with Windows, where installling programs can be done by a child and Winupdate does work (not many things work in Windows, not even the XP-computers work that well, but installing & updating does work easily.)
Any opinions?
Fedora/SuSe/other Novell/ ? - or maybe Gentoo, I think I'll try that one next!
 
Old 02-02-2005, 07:28 AM   #8
macondo
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"Concerning distro for school - I can't install a system that requires a Debian/apt expert."

I agree, doing:

#apt-get update
#apt-get install <package>

it's a bitch, you might get a mental hernia. Try gentoo.

He who doesn't read due to laziness, is bound to fail.
-- macondo
 
Old 02-02-2005, 07:35 AM   #9
macondo
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"I use clean and autoclean"

Use one or the other.

'auto-clean' will leave the app in the system with its original configuration.

'clean' will clean/purge it completely from the system.
 
Old 02-02-2005, 09:23 AM   #10
pingu
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Well, macondo...
Quote:
I agree, doing:
#apt-get update
#apt-get install <package>

it's a bitch, you might get a mental hernia. Try gentoo.
He who doesn't read due to laziness, is bound to fail.
That's just what I did. It didn't work.

And I don't mind reading, as I said I will give it another try at home after reading more about it.

But apt is obviously not easy to use, read the posts including yours and you'll find almost everybody says things like:

"Understanding apt entirely is key"

"There is no easy way out...

1. Read sections 1,2,3, and 7 of the APT-HOWTO
....
Read it ALL, it will save you time, and you might even learn a thing or two."

"A dist-upgrade is always a tricky thing to do"

So for the school, where the other admin never tried Linux (though a bit interested!), I need a distro where installing & updating just works. Then I can concentrate on showing him the nice parts of Linux - and maybe next year this school will have lots of Linux clients.
Next try: Gentoo - starting monday (too many malfunctioning computers to take care of rest of this week!)
 
Old 02-02-2005, 12:29 PM   #11
ironwalker
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First of all Gentoo is balls ass nowhere near debian at handleing dependancies,

Second...make sure you only have what you want in /etc/apt/sources.list uncommentted.
I use "unstable" therefore eperimental,testing,and stable are commented out...meaning there s a # infront of the ip line.

Once thats done
do apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
if any errors post them here and I will show ya how to fix.


The man did not ask for a better distro when he posted.
 
Old 02-02-2005, 09:58 PM   #12
greenmeanie
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Re: A last chance for Debian?

i wouldnt try gentoo just beacuse of their forum nazi's!

Quote:
Originally posted by pingu
At last I have a job which provides me with a fast internet-connection.
Now I want to change my home-distro from Mandrake (which was good up to 9.1) to something else, my main problem has been installation of programs.
With only a modem-connection I have to install every new program I want from CD, I quickly realized apt is completely useless for such tasks. urpmi isn't very good, but usable.
But now I can carry my home-puter to my office and install whatever I want!

So I installed Libranet 2.8 on a test computer at work, then issued
# apt-get update
# apt-get dist-upgrade (taken from memory, upgrading started anyhow)

I was asked if I wanted to change language/locales, answered 'yes' and the terminal died.
I had to kill all processes on that terminal and restarted upgrading.
This time I didn't change language, things went on - but gdm no longer works, system can't read files with Swedish special characters.
I tried to fix it, but no success.

The 'apt-get update' command listed some resources/url's as not existing, but obviously didn't remove them.

Now I have tried Libranet, Debian, Ubuntu and a few other Debian-based distro's and I can't say I'm impressed by apt.
Also no Debian-based distro can use my modem, but I might get ADSL at home instead.

But before completely giving up Debian, for some reason I want to give it a last chance.
So what do you say, folks? When apt works it's great, but for me too often it doesn't.
Also, I hope I can convince people at the school where I now work to try Linux on some clients. When the time comes I have to know which distro to use, I don't think I'll get a second chance!
 
Old 02-03-2005, 01:22 AM   #13
pingu
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Maybe it could be that apt just has to be configured once, then can be handled easily?
If so, I could take the time to get it functional.
Maybe I should take a look at Synaptic as well, I guess that is better for Win-admins.

But I do wonder, running apt-get update should remove any non-existing sources. It didn't. Is this a common thing, or is it this version of Libranet (2.8.1)?

And if I install a debian-based distro like Libranet, is it safe to have ftp.se.debian in sources.list or should I stick to the distro in use only (Libranet in this case)?
 
Old 02-03-2005, 01:39 AM   #14
slayerboy
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apt-get will not modify sources.list file. You need to manually edit that yourself. If you use Synaptic, you can select which sources you want to go through with the click of a button in the Repositories dialog box.

Trust me, I've used RH/Fedora, Mandrake, Debian, and Suse. Apt-get is the best thing in the world. I can have either full-control over installs, or I can use Synaptic to do everything. To update, I just open Synaptic, refresh the list, mark all upgrades with the defaul selection (I've had problems with the smart upgrade), and then apply the changes. Pretty darn easy. Ever try installing software with any variation of an RPM? There's a reason why it's called "dependancy hell", and apt-get is about the only thing that cures this problem out of ANY distro.

If you install Libranet, Ubuntu, Xandros, Mepis, or any other variation of Debian besides the actual Debian distro, you should go through the indiviual distro's repositories. Sometimes they tweak their software enough to make the system unstable if you wree to use it from Debian. Most of the time you should be fine, but to be on the safe side, I'd go with the distro's site. Mepis, for example, uses a little bit of Debian Sarge testing/unstable.
 
Old 02-03-2005, 04:46 AM   #15
pingu
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Quote:
apt-get will not modify sources.list file
Nooo???
Then I surely misunderstood both the manpage and an article in a swedish mag about apt! That could be an explanation to my problems!
Quote:
Ever try installing software with any variation of an RPM?
Yes. That is probably why I still wanted to give Debian/apt another chance...

So here we go for another try!
 
  


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