[SOLVED] CentOS 7 with SB Audigy FX

rdeflavia · 04-26-2016, 09:44 AM

Good Day All,

I am running CentOS 7 on an IBM x3550 m2 with an SB Audigy FX PCIe card that uses the Realtek ALC898 chipset. The system "sees" the card as does the ALSA tools, etc.; however, there is no sound.

I have been researching this for weeks to no avail. I noticed that there are no definitions within any ".conf" file in the /usr/share/alsa/cards directory to support the ALC898 chipset.

I am considering the purchase of an ASUS Xonar DX card that has the AV100 chipset which is defined in the CMI8788.conf file. Has anyone had luck with this card?

Any advice would be certainly appreciated!

Regards,
Russell

ardvark71 · 04-27-2016, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdeflavia

I am running CentOS 7 on an IBM x3550 m2 with an SB Audigy FX PCIe card that uses the Realtek ALC898 chipset. The system "sees" the card as does the ALSA tools, etc.; however, there is no sound.

I have been researching this for weeks to no avail. I noticed that there are no definitions within any ".conf" file in the /usr/share/alsa/cards directory to support the ALC898 chipset.

Hi Russell...

Welcome to the forum

Not sure I can help here but out of curiosity, please post the results of the following commands...

Code:

lspci -nnk | grep -i -A7 audio

Code:

lsmod | grep snd

Code:

aplay -l

Please also include the section concerning your sound card (if any) using this command...

Code:

dmesg

You could try this command to make it easier but I'm not sure if it will work...

Code:

dmesg | grep -iC 3 "snd"

Last but not least, what does alsamixer show? Please include a thumbnail of that, if you could. Thanks!

Regards...

rdeflavia · 06-24-2016, 01:59 PM

Hi Ardvark71,

Thank you so much for your reply!
Sorry, it took me this long to reply.

I will get all the information you requested and post it here.

Thanks and regards,
Russell

rdeflavia · 06-24-2016, 06:09 PM

Hello again Ardvark71,

Here is the audio-card information you originally requested.

I hope this helps you and hopefully, my "sound" issue can be resolved.

As you can see below, the OS "sees" the audio card; but, I do not hear anything through the speakers or headphones.

At the very end of this post is the text output on the terminal from the "aplay" and the "play" commands.

Once again, thank you so much for replying to my original post and thank you in advance for looking at this post!

Regards,
Russell

[pika@yeti ~]$ cat audio-info-for-ardvark71.txt

Fri Jun 24 17:15:20 EDT 2016
[pika@yeti ~]$ uname -a
Linux yeti 3.10.0-327.13.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Thu Mar 31 16:04:38 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

[pika@yeti ~]$ cat /etc/centos-release
CentOS Linux release 7.2.1511 (Core)

[pika@yeti ~]$ lspci -nnk | grep -i -A7 audio
15:00.0 Audio device [0403]: Creative Labs SB Recon3D [1102:0012] (rev 01)
Subsystem: Creative Labs Device [1102:0010]
Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
1a:00.0 USB controller [0c03]: Fresco Logic FL1100 USB 3.0 Host Controller [1b73:1100] (rev 10)
Subsystem: Sonnet Technologies, Inc. Device [16b8:5603]
Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
fe:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Xeon 5500/Core i7 QuickPath Architecture Generic Non-Core Registers [8086:2c40] (rev 05)
Subsystem: Intel Corporation Device [8086:8086]

[pika@yeti ~]$ lsmod | grep snd
snd_hda_codec_realtek 80757 1
snd_hda_codec_generic 74126 1 snd_hda_codec_realtek
snd_hda_intel 35779 4
snd_hda_codec 137386 3 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_intel
snd_hda_core 57760 4 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_intel
snd_hwdep 13608 1 snd_hda_codec
snd_seq 66691 0
snd_seq_device 14356 1 snd_seq
snd_pcm 105835 3 snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_core
snd_timer 29639 2 snd_pcm,snd_seq
snd 83425 17 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hwdep,snd_timer,snd_pcm,snd_seq,snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec,snd_hd a_intel,snd_seq_device
soundcore 15047 1 snd

[pika@yeti ~]$ aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: Creative [HDA Creative], device 0: ALC898 Analog [ALC898 Analog]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

[pika@yeti ~]$ dmesg | grep -iC 3 "snd"
<no output>
note: I tried "sound", "audio", etc. and other arguments to the grep command.

ASCII Screenshots of "alsamixer"
lqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq AlsaMixer v1.0.28 qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqk
x Card: HDA Creative F1: Help x
x Chip: Realtek ALC898 F2: System information x
x View: F3:[Playback] F4: Capture F5: All F6: Select sound card x
x Item: Master [dB gain: -19.50] Esc: Exit x
x x
x x
x x
x x
x lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x x xaax xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax xaax x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax xaax x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax xaax x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax xaax x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x →
x x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x →
x x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x →
x x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x →
x x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x →
x x x x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x →
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x x x →
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x xaax →
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x xaax →
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x xaax →
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x xaax x
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x xaax x
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x xaax x
x xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x xaax xaax xaax x x x x xaax x
x tqqu tqqu mqqj tqqu tqqu mqqj tqqu tqqu tqqu tqqu mqqj tqqu x
x xOOx xMMx xOOx xOOx xOOx xOOx xOOx xMMx xOOx x
x mqqj mqqj mqqj mqqj mqqj mqqj mqqj mqqj mqqj x
x 43 0<>0 100<>100 97<>97 70<>70 0<>0 97<>97 100 100 0<>0 0<>0 37<>37 x
x< Master >Headphon PCM Front Front Mi Front Mi Surround Center LFE Line Line Boo Beep x
x x
x x
x x
x x
mqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqj

lqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq AlsaMixer v1.0.28 qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqk
x Card: HDA Creative F1: Help x
x Chip: Realtek ALC898 F2: System information x
x View: F3: Playback F4:[Capture] F5: All F6: Select sound card x
x Item: Front Mic Boost [dB gain: 0.00, 0.00] Esc: Exit x
x x
x x
x x
x x
x x
x lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk lqqk x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x x x x x xaax x x x x x x x
x mqqj mqqj LmqqjR mqqj mqqj Front Mic Front Mic Front Mic mqqj x
x CAPTURE ------- ------- x
x 0<>0 0<>0 100<>100 0<>0 0<>0 0<>0 x
x<Front Mic B>Line Boost Capture Capture 1 Capture 2 Input Sourc Input Sourc Input Sourc Rear Mic Bo x
x x
x x
x x
x x
mqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqj

[pika@yeti alsa]$ aplay Noise.wav
Playing WAVE 'Noise.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 48000 Hz, Mono

[pika@yeti alsa]$ play Noise.wav

Noise.wav:

File Size: 135k Bit Rate: 768k
Encoding: Signed PCM
Channels: 1 @ 16-bit
Samplerate: 48000Hz
Replaygain: off
Duration: 00:00:01.41

In:100% 00:00:01.41 [00:00:00.00] Out:67.6k [ -=|=- ] Clip:0
Done.

ardvark71 · 06-24-2016, 06:34 PM

Hi Russell...

Thank you for your reports and for going above and beyond, however, I'm not good at reading ASCII. Would you upload a screenshot (or image) of what you see from this command...

Code:

alsamixer

Also, for the "dmesg" command, you could also try...

Code:

dmesg | grep -iC 3 "snd_hda_intel"

Thanks!

Emerson · 06-24-2016, 07:06 PM

Actually, amixer produces full output. Please use code tags when pasting.

rdeflavia · 06-25-2016, 02:05 PM

Hi Emerson and Ardvark71,

Thanks again!

I am working on the screenshots (using "gimp" create screenshot). They create an image file with a ".xcf" extension.
There are 3 screenshots--can I upload those directly or should I "zip" them and upload the zip file?

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by using "code tags when pasting" and by "system - no", "pulseaudo - no".

Please advise.

The dmesg | grep -iC 3 "snd_hda_intel" command produced no output.

Thank you again Ardvark71 and Emerson!
This means a lot to me and I really appreciate your time and effort in trying to help me!

Best regards,
Russell

ardvark71 · 06-25-2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdeflavia

I am working on the screenshots (using "gimp" create screenshot). They create an image file with a ".xcf" extension.
There are 3 screenshots--can I upload those directly or should I "zip" them and upload the zip file?

Hi Russell...

I'm sorry, in terms of uploading them directly using the "Attach Files" feature, none of those options will work. These are the only file formats accepted: gif jpeg jpg log pdf png txt. You should be able to use the "printscreen" (or "Prt Sc") button on your keyboard to create a screenshot. You might need to use one or two other keys in conjunction, such as "Ctrl." There also might be another program that you can use to do this mentioned in post #2 here. Another option would be to create an account at a free image hosting site, such as flickr or imgup, if you don't already have one and then upload the screenshots there and post a link to the shots. You would just need to make sure the file format you want to use, such as .xcf, is supported on the site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdeflavia

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by using "code tags when pasting" and by "system - no", "pulseaudo - no".

Please advise.

When you create or reply to a post in advanced mode, directly above the text window you write in, you will see a button that looks like this: #

You will then something close to this: [ CODE ] [ /CODE ]

Put the results of the commands between those two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdeflavia

The dmesg | grep -iC 3 "snd_hda_intel" command produced no output.

No problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdeflavia

Thank you again Ardvark71 and Emerson!
This means a lot to me and I really appreciate your time and effort in trying to help me!

You're welcome!

Regards...

Emerson · 06-25-2016, 07:53 PM

It is possible something is muted or tuned down, that's why I recommended looking at amixer output. You can paste it here, using code tags, as I did.

Code:

Simple mixer control 'Master',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Limits: Playback 0 - 64
  Mono: Playback 59 [92%] [-5.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Headphone',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 64
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
  Front Right: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'PCM',0
  Capabilities: pvolume
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 255
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 102 [40%] [-30.60dB]
  Front Right: Playback 102 [40%] [-30.60dB]
Simple mixer control 'Front',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 64
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 60 [94%] [-4.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 60 [94%] [-4.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Front Mic',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 31
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 0 [0%] [-34.50dB] [off]
  Front Right: Playback 0 [0%] [-34.50dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Front Mic Boost',0
  Capabilities: volume
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: 0 - 3
  Front Left: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]
  Front Right: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]
Simple mixer control 'Surround',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 64
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
  Front Right: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Center',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Limits: Playback 0 - 64
  Mono: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'LFE',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Limits: Playback 0 - 64
  Mono: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Side',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 64
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
  Front Right: Playback 64 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Line',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 31
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 0 [0%] [-34.50dB] [off]
  Front Right: Playback 0 [0%] [-34.50dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Line Boost',0
  Capabilities: volume
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: 0 - 3
  Front Left: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]
  Front Right: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]
Simple mixer control 'Capture',0
  Capabilities: cvolume cswitch
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Capture 0 - 46
  Front Left: Capture 46 [100%] [30.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Capture 46 [100%] [30.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Capture',1
  Capabilities: cvolume cswitch
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Capture 0 - 46
  Front Left: Capture 0 [0%] [-16.00dB] [off]
  Front Right: Capture 0 [0%] [-16.00dB] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Auto-Mute Mode',0
  Capabilities: enum
  Items: 'Disabled' 'Enabled'
  Item0: 'Enabled'
Simple mixer control 'Digital',0
  Capabilities: cvolume
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Capture 0 - 120
  Front Left: Capture 60 [50%] [0.00dB]
  Front Right: Capture 60 [50%] [0.00dB]
Simple mixer control 'Input Source',0
  Capabilities: cenum
  Items: 'Front Mic' 'Rear Mic' 'Line'
  Item0: 'Rear Mic'
Simple mixer control 'Input Source',1
  Capabilities: cenum
  Items: 'Front Mic' 'Rear Mic' 'Line'
  Item0: 'Rear Mic'
Simple mixer control 'Loopback Mixing',0
  Capabilities: enum
  Items: 'Disabled' 'Enabled'
  Item0: 'Enabled'
Simple mixer control 'Rear Mic',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 31
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 21 [68%] [-3.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 21 [68%] [-3.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Rear Mic Boost',0
  Capabilities: volume
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: 0 - 3
  Front Left: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]
  Front Right: 0 [0%] [0.00dB]

ardvark71 · 06-25-2016, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerson

It is possible something is muted or tuned down, that's why I recommended looking at amixer output. You can paste it here, using code tags, as I did.

Hi...

Yes, that was a thought I had, too. It's easier for me to see the actual image in this case, hence my suggestion of "alsamixer."

Regards...

Emerson · 06-25-2016, 10:01 PM

With alsamixer you can be never sure all mixers are on the screen, if there is more than fits the screen one needs to scroll right with arrow key, a still image won't be good any more.

You need a video for that.

ardvark71 · 06-26-2016, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerson

With alsamixer you can be never sure all mixers are on the screen, if there is more than fits the screen one needs to scroll right with arrow key, a still image won't be good any more.

You need a video for that.

Ah, thanks. I didn't realize that.

Regards...

rdeflavia · 06-26-2016, 02:16 PM

Hello and Good Day Ardvark71 and Emerson!

Here is more output and my attached screenshots that I converted to "jpg" files.

This is so confusing to me. The system "sees" the card and the chipset: Card: HDA Creative, Chip: Realtek ALC898
Note: when testing, I moved the sliders up for headphones, etc. -- still, no sound.

amixer output

Code:

[pika@yeti ~]$ amixer
Simple mixer control 'Master',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right - Rear Left - Rear Right - Front Center - Woofer
  Limits: Playback 0 - 65536
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 16462 [25%] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 16462 [25%] [on]
  Rear Left: Playback 16462 [25%] [on]
  Rear Right: Playback 16462 [25%] [on]
  Front Center: Playback 16943 [26%] [on]
  Woofer: Playback 16943 [26%] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Capture',0
  Capabilities: cvolume cswitch cswitch-joined
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Capture 0 - 65536
  Front Left: Capture 22379 [34%] [on]
  Front Right: Capture 22379 [34%] [on]

Here is something I read about; but, have not rebooted to test:
So, if you think there is any value to this approach, I can reboot and test again.
If not, I will comment out the "options" line.

Code:

[pika@yeti ~]$ cat /etc/modprobe.d/snd-hda-intel.conf
options snd-hda-intel model=auto
#options snd-hda-intel model=acer-aspire

Again, thank you so very much for everything!

All the best,
Russell

p.s. I'm starting to get the hang of how to post things properly. Thanks for your patience and grace! This is an awesome site!

ardvark71 · 06-27-2016, 12:57 AM

Hi Russell...

You're welcome! Assuming there is nothing I missed from your reports, which looked ok to me...

After a bit of research, it appears there are issues with your card and few others in that line. There has been a patch released but, from what I understand, you will need to recompile your kernel to include the patch. That I can't help you with, that's a bit beyond my knowledge and ability.

However, if you want to give it ago, please see these threads for more information and the patch...

https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109191

https://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachme...31&action=diff

http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=741501

I can't guarantee it will resolve the issue but if you know how to do this kind of work, it might be worth a shot.

However, if not and/or the potential loss of your current copy of CentOS is not feasible, then you might want to give the ASUS Xonar DX (that you mentioned in your first post) or another card a try.

Hope this helps. Let us know how it goes.

Regards...

rdeflavia · 06-27-2016, 11:15 AM

Hi Ardvark71 and Good Day to you and Emerson!

I certainly appreciate everything that you and Emerson have done in trying to help me out!

In your last response, you mentioned that maybe I should give the ASUS Xonar DX or another card a try.
That's just what I was thinking of doing--rather than rebuilding the kernel--and here's what I discovered:

The Xonar DX uses the AV100 (CMedia Oxygen HD chipset) that is defined in the "aliases.conf" and the "CMI8788.conf" files under the /usr/share/alsa/cards subdirectory.
Note: My current SB Audigy card with the ALC898 chipset is not defined in any of the "conf" files as shown below by "grep"--this may be the problem.

Link to the ALSA Vendor Matrix for ASSUS: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/ind...ix:Vendor-Asus <--- verified that the Xonar DX is supported by ALSA

Code:

[pika@yeti cards]$ pwd
/usr/share/alsa/cards

[pika@yeti cards]$ grep -i AV100 *.conf
aliases.conf:AV100 cards.CMI8788  <----<<< this seems promising :)

[pika@yeti cards]$ grep -i CMI8788 *.conf 
aliases.conf:AV66 cards.CMI8788
aliases.conf:AV100 cards.CMI8788
aliases.conf:AV200 cards.CMI8788
aliases.conf:CMI8786 cards.CMI8788
aliases.conf:CMI8787 cards.CMI8788
CMI8788.conf:# Configuration for the CMI8788 chip
CMI8788.conf:CMI8788.pcm.front.0 {
CMI8788.conf:CMI8788.pcm.default {
CMI8788.conf:CMI8788.pcm.surround40.0 {
CMI8788.conf:CMI8788.pcm.surround51.0 {
CMI8788.conf:CMI8788.pcm.surround71.0 {
CMI8788.conf:CMI8788.pcm.iec958.0 {

[pika@yeti cards]$ grep -i ALC898 *.conf
<no output>

The ASUS Xonar DX needs Auxiliary Power
Please see the attached "Auxiliary Power for PCIe" and the "ASUS Xonar DX PCIe Sound Card" images.

Code:

The system is an IBM x3550 m2 that has an 8-pin molex connector on the system board to support an optional video card.
I have worked out a series of cable connections that would begin with an 8-pin molex connector ending with a 4-pin floppy disk connector.
I just have to verify that the voltage the on-board 8-pin molex connector provides is the correct voltage required by the Xonar DX.

Please let me know if this approach seems logical.

I have been trying to find a card that is known to work with CentOS 7.x that would be plug-and-play.

If you know of such a sound card, a low-profile PCIe card, especially one that *does not* require auxiliary power, please let me know

With much appreciation and best regards,
Russell
p.s. God Bless you and Emerson!