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I think PCLOS can do whatever they want. I personally use Slackware because all the programs function as intended by the author. Vanilla is a good flavor. But then, if a distro truly fixes a bug in a program properly, good for them. They should send it to the developer and not include it till the developer accepts the patch.

Pre-configured-ness to the degree of making VLC the default media player in everything certainly has its advantages but isn't needed.

As for KDE. This is a really large package. It's one of those things that should be installed by default and never removed or touched. It's also buggy on every system that uses it. VLC not playing MP3 could have been a legal issue. MP3 is by no means free or legal to use in any form without paying the licensing fees... at least to my understanding anyway.

Posted 06-29-2011 at 12:16 PM by lumak lumak is offline

Two Browsers, Two Computers, Two Linuxes: Streaming Audio

niche for CrunchBang....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distro watch, Jesse Smith

Nothing really jumped out at me as being great or terrible. Thus far I haven't found any niche CrunchBang fills -- its resource usage, install process and user-friendliness seems to be about on par with plain Debian, so I'm not sure who this project is targeting. My conclusion is CrunchBang appears to be a good tool, I just haven't found any task for it.

Gosh. I have.

CrunchBang is the best distro out there, in my testing, for use as in internet radio station.....

CAI ENG

Posted 04-11-2011 at 01:14 PM by caieng caieng is offline

Change in the testing Algorithm

improving the tables, adding data for C8 PCLOS

Code:

Streaming Web Site........location..................format.......Kbps
(1) Radio Stephansdom.....Vienna, Austria............mp3..........128
(2) VRT Radio Klara.......Brussels, Belgium..........mp3...........96
(3) RTBF Musiq 3..........Brussels, Belgium..........mp3..........128
(4) Cro D-dur.............Prague, Czech Republic.....ogg..........256
(5) Accent-4..............Strasbourg, France.........aac+..........48
(6) BR-Klassik............Munich, Germany............mp3..........128
(7) NDR Kultur............Hamburg, Germany...........mp3..........128
(8) Radio 4...............Hilversum, Netherlands.....aac+..........64
(9)ConcertzenderKlassiek..Hilversum, Netherlands.....mp3..........128
(10)NRK Klassisk..........Oslo, Norway...............mp3..........192
(11)SRO Radio Klasika.....Bratislava, Slovakia.......ogg..........256
(12)Sveriges Radio SR.....Stockholm, Sweden..........aac+.........192

Results:

Code:

#....Distro....version....type....kernel.......Date...Browser.......version....VLC.....Seconds
c1...Win98......SE........M$...................1999...Sea Monkey....1.1.18.....0.8.6f...329
......................................................Opera...........10.10.............157
.....XP........SP-II......M$....................2004..Sea Monkey....2.0.11.....1.1.7....163
......................................................Opera.........10.10...............165
......................................................Chrome........9.0.597.............214

c2...PCLOS.....10.2.......LXDE....2.6.33.7.....2010...Opera..........11.01.....1.1.7....134
......................................................Konqueror......4.5.5..............203
.....Ultimate..2.8.Lite...OpenBox.2.6.35/686...2010...FireFox........3.6.13....1.1.4....230
......................................................SeaMonkey......2.0.7..............224
......................................................Konqueror......4.5.5..............347
....CrunchBang..20110112..XFCE..2.6.32-5/686...2011...SeaMonkey......2.0.7.....1.1.3....161
......................................................Chrome.........8.0.552............129
......................................................Konqueror......4.4.5..............217

#....Distro....version....type....kernel.......Date...Browser.......version....VLC.....Seconds
c4...Win98.....SE.........M$...................1999....Opera........10.10.....0.8.6f....136	
.......................................................SeaMonkey....1.1.18..............287
.....XP........SP-II......M$...................2004....Opera........11.01.....1.1.7.....132
.......................................................SeaMonkey....2.0.11..............132
.......................................................Chrome.......9.0.597.98..........180
.....PCLOS.....10.2.......LXDE....2.6.33.7.....2010....Opera........11.01.....1.1.7.....186
.......................................................Konqueror....4.5.5...............244
....CrunchBang.20110112...XFCE....2.6.32-5/686.2011....Chrome.......9.0.597...1.1.3.....209
.......................................................Konqueror....4.4.5...............293
.......................................................SeaMonkey....2.0.7...............200
.......................................................FireFox......4.0.b9..............256
....Ultimate...2.8 Lite..OpenBox..2.6.35/686...2010....Konqueror....4.5.1.....1.1.4.....441
.......................................................FireFox......3.6.13..............368
.......................................................SeaMonkey....2.0.11..............369

#....Distro....version....type....kernel.......Date...Browser.......version....VLC.....Seconds
c8...XP........SP-II.......M$..................2004....Opera........11.01......1.1.2.....80
.......................................................SeaMonkey.....2.09................82
...CrunchBang..20110112...XFCE..2.6.32-5/amd64.2011....Chrome........9.0.597...1.1.3....129
.......................................................SeaMonkey.....2.07...............145
.......................................................FireFox.......3.6................146
.......................................................Konqueror.....4.4.5..............172
....PCLOS.......10.2......LXDE....2.6.33.7i686..2010...Konqueror.....4.5.5..............205
.......................................................Opera.........11.01..............138

Comments re: XP and PCLOS, both 32 bit OS, outperforming 64 bit Linux???

Posted 03-06-2011 at 04:20 PM by caieng caieng is offline

	"Lint" Quote: Originally Posted by rich_c I cut 'n' pasted the relevant urls into VLC. oops... haha. made me laugh. Thanks for that. Hope you will give CrunchBang a try, to see the difference!!! Cheers, CAI ENG
	Posted 01-26-2011 at 02:08 PM by caieng

"Lint"

I cut 'n' pasted the relevant urls into VLC.

Posted 01-26-2011 at 10:17 AM by rich_c

"Lint"

Thanks rich_c.

I went to another PIII computer, this one a year newer than my usual test device, and the DVD booted up!!!

As I already had another Linux version installed on that hard drive, I decided to run a quick test from the DVD itself.

I confirm your findings, from the "live" version, i.e. that music is heard with LMDE, very clearly, from all three formats, mp3, ogg, and aac+.

However, none of them uses VLC.

LMDE does NOT use VLC to play the music.

Are you sure that you heard music via VLC, as you wrote above, at 12:06 pm on 25 January 2011 ???? On the live DVD of LMDE, the OGG format uses "movieplayer", and the remaining two use some other, unidentified, embedded device, contained within Firefox, so that if one wishes to explore some web site, with that instantiation of the browser, then one loses the music, quite different from employing VLC, which has no attachment to the browser.....

CAI ENG

Posted 01-26-2011 at 08:13 AM by caieng caieng is offline

"Lint"

1. No, I didn't test mp3. I noted your comment about testing non proprietary formats. My understanding is mp3 is proprietary.

2. Yes, that's what I'm running.

3. I did perform a post install upgrade using the Mint upgrade tool, not Synaptic. I can't imagine that minor point would make any difference as it'd all be front end for apt-get upgrade anyway.

The Guest Additions thing is to do with Virtualbox rather than anything else. You can install an OS in Virtualbox without Guest Additions, but installing them using the virtual CD provided by VB gives you better screen resolution etc. Here's the manual entry if you want to read further.

Posted 01-26-2011 at 05:24 AM by rich_c rich_c is offline

"Lint"

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich_c

If I were you, CAI ENG, I'd re-install VLC.

Thank you rich_c. Glad to read that you were successful.

I again sought to install the DVD on my principal test computer, a PIII, some twelve years old now, and the DVD would not boot.

I will try again, this weekend, on another computer....

Questions:
1. You did not mention mp3, did it work as well?
2. I should have specified, and failed to do so, that I was using the 32 bit version of LMDE (Gnome). I suppose you were also using that version?
3. My notes from the test don't indicate it, and I cannot recall whether or not I performed an upgrade, post install, by invoking the synaptic package manager to download from the central Debian repository, of the most recent changes. Maybe I did not...
How about your test? Did you perform that post install upgrade?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich_c

For example, I had to spend a good few minutes Googling to get guest additions installed successfully.

Sorry, I cannot understand what you are trying to explain here. What are "guest additions"? Why did you need a search engine, rather than use synaptic manager?

CAI ENG

Posted 01-26-2011 at 04:47 AM by caieng caieng is offline

"Lint"

I installed Linux Mint Debian Edition in Virtualbox yesterday. I'm currently listening to the aac+ feed from London Classic FM using the pre-installed VLC, while posting this. So as far as that test goes, success! I also tried an ogg feed from one of the other links, which worked fine!

I have to say, LMDE does seem (As per the info on the Mint site!) a little rough around the edges. For example, I had to spend a good few minutes Googling to get guest additions installed successfully. Based on what I've seen in Virtualbox so far, I'd happily recommend LMDE to anyone who has a reason to want a pure Debian based distro. I'd even go as far as to say I'd install it for a noob wanting a Linux distro installed for them. The only issues I've hit have been installation related and quite minor ones at that.

If I were you, CAI ENG, I'd re-install VLC.

Posted 01-25-2011 at 11:06 AM by rich_c rich_c is offline

Updated 01-25-2011 at 11:07 AM by rich_c (BTW.)

"Lint"

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich_c

You know, I might just take the opportunity to install LMDE on my test machine.

OK!! GREAT. Once installed (if it will boot at all--haha, on my old PIII test machine the Lint DVD does not boot, thought other distro's boot just fine on that machine, and the same Lint DVD will boot on my newer machines...)
please confirm that VLC has been installed. You should see an icon for it. Then, please go to this URL:
http://www.listenlive.eu/classical.html
There, click on any non-proprietary icon, i.e. OGG, mp3, or aac+. Each has a unique symbol differentiating it from the two proprietary icons (M$ and Real Audio).
Let us know if you (a) hear music, and (b) if VLC is playing the music.

CrunchBang uses the SAME Debian sources as Lint, and ALSO installs VLC directly, something which neither Puppy nor PCLinuxOS do, they both require the user to install VLC, post-installation, not a very smart idea, in my opinion. Where those two distros excel, in my opinion, is in their video resolution capability. NO PROBLEMS, at all, with either of these two excellent distros, something I cannot write, for the Debian/Suse/Fedora/Slackware groups or their offshoots. Sure, I can adjust Slackware, for example, to display the correct resolution, but WHY must I still pretend that it is 1998, again, fooling around with creating and editing a configuration file? I have finally been relieved of the task of issuing the MNT command, every time I want to read a dvd, it is the 21st century, hello? Linux, anybody home? Seems not. Only Puppy and PCLinuxOS (and other Drake config based distros) have solved that issue satisfactorily, in my opinion.

I urge you to give CrunchBang a try, since you will experiment with Lint....
If you measure the installation times of these two distros, I think you will be pleasantly surprised to learn that CrunchBang installs faster than Lint. If you measure the boot up times, you will again find CB faster. However, I would use CB, in any event, even if it were slower, simply because clicking on one of those icons produces music played by VLC with CB, but not with Lint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumak, writing about Midori

WOW! how did that make it into the reply? nobody said anything about it... either way, I think Midori has a long way to go before being useful for everyday use.

Midori has improved, dramatically, in the past twelve months. I am optimistic that in another six months, it may become usable. It is not bad, just missing some important features.
I cited Midori, to answer your question, because I sought to illustrate to rich_c the idea of offering criticism of a review, based not on superficial, subjective factors, but rather on the basis of TESTING. One ought not, in my opinion, conclude, as distrowatch has done, that a particular OS, or browser, or any other component of a computer system is defective, or praiseworthy, without some sort of objective evaluation. I could never imagine suggesting Lint as the distro of the year. It can't even play streaming audio with the best audio player available, VLC, which is installed automatically, by Lint--i.e. they recognize the utility of VLC, they simply don't implement that utility. VLC simply sits there, in a Lint distro, like an ornament on a Christmas tree.

CAI ENG

Posted 01-25-2011 at 06:00 AM by caieng caieng is offline

"Lint"

@ Midori

WOW! how did that make it into the reply? nobody said anything about it... either way, I think Midori has a long way to go before being useful for everyday use. Personally, I use it on a really old machine with 256mb ram because it's the most light weight browser that supports most webpages. It's nice to still be able to have 5 tabs open without bringing the old machine to a stand still. I could barely handle firefox with one tab!

Posted 01-24-2011 at 03:21 PM by lumak lumak is offline

	"Lint" You know, I might just take the opportunity to install LMDE on my test machine. Partly because there seems to be the embryo of some co-operative projects between LMDE and Mepis...
	Posted 01-24-2011 at 07:49 AM by rich_c

"Lint"

Quote:

Originally Posted by "rich_c

You clearly don't like Mint then. That's fine! Others can read this blog post and the comments that go with it and make up their own minds. I have to say, this is the first time I've heard Mint described as an unmitigated disaster. Most other reviewers are almost always highly impressed.

1. Wrong approach, friend. In my opinion, you ought, instead, test LINT yourself--a. with your own metric, and b. with mine, and then, having challenged my conclusions which are based upon DATA, not opinion, report back to us, on YOUR FINDINGS.

2. I don't give a rat's ass what ANYONE else thinks about Lint. I know people who like Midori, because of the green symbol used to represent that browser. I know others who like Midori, because it is "LIGHT", i.e. supposedly faster than other browsers. I know still others, who appreciate the NAME, because it is Japanese.
I dislike Midori, not because I hold a philosophical opposition to those who dropped bombs on Pearl Harbor, nor because I am a person who likes the color RED, nor because I like HEAVY browsers. No, I dislike Midori because it lacks the user capabilities of Konqueror, and is brain dead when it comes to transferring data to VLC, insisting on asking the user EACH time the user invokes a particular command, i.e., Midori has no ability to REMEMBER THE USER's preference.

You need, I think, to learn the distinction between subjective and objective testing.

Try to construct a simple test, something related to your own interests, and then measure a variable, then test the different distros, or different browsers, or different keyboards, etc.... Maybe then you will acquire a different viewpoint, when it comes to assessing the relative merits of ANY review: Is the review purely subjective, or does the review actually test the material, finding fault, or praise, as is warranted by the RESULTS of the testing.

CAI ENG

Posted 01-24-2011 at 05:45 AM by caieng caieng is offline

	"Lint" You clearly don't like Mint then. That's fine! Others can read this blog post and the comments that go with it and make up their own minds. I have to say, this is the first time I've heard Mint described as an unmitigated disaster. Most other reviewers are almost always highly impressed.
	Posted 01-24-2011 at 05:27 AM by rich_c

"Lint"

Thank you rich_c. I disagree.

The fault is not with Debian.

Debian may not be perfect, and may not be to everyone's liking, but, it certainly beats the pants off Ubuntu and Mint, (and Fedora and Suse, for that matter).

Debian is used by my de facto standard, CrunchBang. The poor video resolution is also seen with CrunchBang, yes, it is a Debian FLAW.

Everything else works PERFECTLY with CrunchBang. It is an outstanding accomplishment. FAR SUPERIOR to anything resembling LINT.

PCLinuxOS remains my favorite, why, because of Drake, the configuration tool, dating from Mandrake days.

It allows the user to achieve a video resolution, without EXCUSES.
PCLinuxOS is SLOW. It is exasperatingly slow, compared with CrunchBang. I don't know why.

Some of my computers run CrunchBang, some run PCLinuxOS. None at present use Puppy, because I am too stupid to figure out how to get VLC to work with Puppy, notwithstanding the fine effort of TTUUXXX.

Lint is an unmitigated disaster. Please don't make excuses for it, citing the conversion to Debian sources, instead of Ubuntu.

CAI ENG

Posted 01-23-2011 at 08:32 PM by caieng caieng is offline

	"Lint" I'm not a Mint user myself, but in the intrests of fairness... The Dedoimedo distro of the year award went to the Ubuntu flavour of Mint 10 'Julia'. If you go to linuxmint.com and look at the FAQ on the LMDE page it says: Quote: # Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.
	Posted 01-22-2011 at 11:36 AM by rich_c

"Lint"

Resolution is a driver issue. Mint doesn't include NVidia drivers or other proprietary graphics drivers. PCLinuxOS Does. Yes there is a 2d Nvidia driver 'nv' but I don't believe that's auto loaded by xorg. That's an xorg issue if it isn't.

What graphics card do you have? If you have an NVidia, that is why YOU have a resoltuion problem. Personally, PCLinuxOS is wrong for including Proprietary NVidia drivers, but hey, that's their choice.

Posted 01-20-2011 at 09:13 PM by lumak lumak is offline

"Lint"

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumak

Some people just want their OS to configure every little setting for you without understanding why it works.

Yes.
Exactly.

I don't WANT to know, or to understand, HOW Windows 98 can offer the user a resolution of 1280 x 1024 x 32 bit at 76 Hz.
I am satisfied that it offers the user this capability.

When Lint is described as the BEST distro, and it cannot even do what Win 98 does, then, I have to ask a simple question: How much is Lint paying those folks at distrowatch?

What I want, is simple: I want the computer to work as it ought to work. I don't have any interest in learning how an internal combustion engine works, I simply want to step on the gas, and move forward.

CAI ENG

Posted 01-20-2011 at 06:08 PM by caieng caieng is offline

"Lint"

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich_c

Just a thought but did you try Mint and/or LMDE? (Linux Mint Debian Editioin.)

Hi, yes, I should have been more precise. LMDE is what I used, because of my familiarity with the Debian family, especially CrunchBang Statler, the de facto standard, in my opinion.

Lint is not less performant than many, many other Linux distros, when it comes to video resolution. What is discouraging, however, is the combination of hype about how glorious Lint is supposed to be, on the one hand, and Lint's inability, on the other, to offer even the simplest adjustment of the video resolution, so as to attain a resolution comparable to that achieved by Windows 98, something handily accomplished with either of three very UNDERSTATED, underestimated, and underappreciated distros, all of which, in my experience, blow LINT right out of the water: Puppy, PCLinuxOS, any version (I prefer LXDE), and Ultimate LXDE 2.8 December 2010.

As I had explained, the user's inability to adjust the video is not the main problem with Lint. The main problem with Lint, is the fact that VLC is installed, but NOT AVAILABLE to the user to choose for streaming audio, at least, not with FireFox. It is obvious to me, at least, having compared about 50 different Linux distros, that Lint is NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE, with the best distros. I deny that this is a matter of OPINION. This is data, and anyone can confirm it:

here's the web site:
ttp://www.listenlive.eu/classical.html
try it yourself, click on OGG, or mp3, or aac+ icons, and you will observe that VLC does not appear. Then, try to compel Firefox to use VLC, by clicking on Edit, preferences, applications, sound: mpegurl. With Lint, the user CANNOT ASSIGN VLC to mpegurl. This isn't a matter of my opinion.

I have abandoned Lint, and am now back to further testing Salix LXDE.

Cheers,
CAI ENG

Posted 01-20-2011 at 06:03 PM by caieng caieng is offline

"Lint"

Some people just want their OS to configure every little setting for you without understanding why it works. Forget the reasoning of their choices to not include binary blobs such as Commercial Nvidia Drivers or choosing not to pre configure 3rd party binaries like Firefox.

That's fine if PCLinuxOS does those things. I don't agree that it should be standard nor do I think it's right for the OS to pre define user settings. A lot of people believe that it's up to the group that makes the program to ensure that the defaults are adequate for its intended use. Either way, a lot of linux OSes only have large repositories of packages because of individuals willing to work for free and compile packages. It takes a lot of knowledge and care to create an auto compile script and place it in the repository. It takes even more time for the real OS developers to make sure everything works. But after looking at the about page of PCLinuxOS, they choose to look through the build scripts of all the other major OSes and use patches and tips from them. I suppose that's fine to. Some other OSes choose to include the most stable and complete version officially released by the software developer.

Posted 01-20-2011 at 11:28 AM by lumak lumak is offline

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