LinuxQuestions.org
Review your favorite Linux distribution.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Blogs > hazel
User Name
Password

Notices


  1. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Yes, I learned about that „integration” in the BSD world long ago, and... I realized it actually doesn't that matter! As long, as everything works as intended — who cares?
    Posted 07-15-2022 at 02:36 PM by SlackWar SlackWar is offline
  2. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Maybe, but there is one enormous difference between Slackware and any kind of BSD. All BSD variants that I know of are made up of a fully integrated binary core plus additional ports and packages. Gentoo is constructed in this way but Slackware is not. The Slackware "full install" philosophy seems to me to be the antithesis of BSD.
    Posted 07-15-2022 at 02:26 PM by hazel hazel is offline
  3. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distribution and also one of the most distinctive. People who come freshly to it, after perhaps having used another Linux distribution for a couple of years, often experience a degree of culture shock

    To put it another way: Slackware is „the most BSD-ish” Linux distribution. Slackers can find themselves „at home” when having a need to use FreeBSD or any other xBSD.
    Posted 07-15-2022 at 07:54 AM by SlackWar SlackWar is offline
  4. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Hi,

    thanks for your relpy.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hazel View Comment
    With regard to the "filleting out" of libraries, what I had in mind was the Debian practice of extracting a library such as libcups from the package to which it properly belongs so that it rather than the whole package becomes a dependency for the other packages that make use of it. It also of course then becomes a dependency for its mother package.
    Ok, I missunderstood that part of your blog. Thanks for clarifying. What you are describing is that there is not a necessarily a 1-to-1, but often a 1-to-many mapping between a source (upstream) package and binary package(s). This is a feature that I really like, it gives more fine-grained control over what is installed.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hazel View Comment
    And it's not just libraries. For example findutils has been split up so that locate is now a separate package. All this just complicates the package management system and provides further points at which something can go wrong.
    For sure. There are many of these sorts of packages. One that springs to mind is a very simple terminal emulator called foot which is split up into three separate packages in Debian.

    However, I think a strength of Debian is the amount of effort that is put into making sure that packages meet a certain level of quality to minimise the chance that things are broken. As I see it, the problems occur with poorly crafted packages, and when packaging low quality or unstable software. I think this is what is seen in many Debian derivatives. Almost a sort of cargo cult way of doing things. Just copy what they think Debian is doing... but pull packages from the unstable repositories and add their own "secret sauce".

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hazel View Comment
    I don't know how Slackware deals with genuine overlap such as those utility programs which are found in both shadow and util-linux. I assume the same way that LFS does: by simply not building the duplicate programs.
    Ok.

    Cheers,

    Evo2.
    Posted 02-27-2022 at 06:45 PM by evo2 evo2 is offline
  5. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Thanks for updating me about Debian. I was not aware that the Debian database was distributed in this way.

    With regard to the "filleting out" of libraries, what I had in mind was the Debian practice of extracting a library such as libcups from the package to which it properly belongs so that it rather than the whole package becomes a dependency for the other packages that make use of it. It also of course then becomes a dependency for its mother package.

    And it's not just libraries. For example findutils has been split up so that locate is now a separate package. All this just complicates the package management system and provides further points at which something can go wrong.

    I don't know how Slackware deals with genuine overlap such as those utility programs which are found in both shadow and util-linux. I assume the same way that LFS does: by simply not building the duplicate programs.
    Posted 02-26-2022 at 05:42 AM by hazel hazel is offline
  6. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Hi,

    this provides an interesting insight to Slackware for me. However, there seem to be some misconceptions about how other distros do things. Eg

    Quote:
    Debian releases come out every two years
    While this has been approximately true for the last 10 years or so, there is not a fixed release schedule like there is for Ubuntu.
    Quote:
    A Slackware release comes out when it is ready
    This is also true for Debian.

    Quote:
    For example, most modern Linux distros have package managers that explicitly handle the dependency relationships between packages, usually by means of a central dependency database.
    I'm not sure if this is accurate. In debian packages the dependencies are declared in the "control" file of each package. Not in a central database. apt reads the dependency information for the package control file and acts accordingly.

    Quote:
    If a certain package contains a library that several other packages make use of, it gets filleted out and turned into an independent package, which then becomes an additional dependency for the parent package. You do not get that kind of fragmentation in Slackware.
    Interesting. So when a security issue is found in a library that is replicated across multiple Slackware packages, how is it addressed? Is it patched by Slackware developers in each package? And if so, the "You get vanilla builds" idea seems to not be really the case. I'm genuinely curious about this. Sorry if this information is readily available online - if so, I'd appreciate being pointed to it.

    Thanks for the enlightening reading.

    Cheers,

    Evo2.
    Posted 02-26-2022 at 03:31 AM by evo2 evo2 is offline
  7. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Comment

    This being said, as-is its content is interesting: maybe you could use it to expand https://docs.slackware.com/slackwarehilosophy so that it gets the exposure it deserves.
    I think hazel's style is too different from the style of the philosophy page for him to have a good time editing it. I am not sure the end-result of that "frankenpage" would be very good either. I do find this blog to be very good though and imho, would deserve its own entry in the wiki.
    Posted 02-24-2022 at 12:09 PM by MightyBaba MightyBaba is offline
  8. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    I have nothing to add or complain about, but I've been finding your journals quite informative.
    Posted 02-16-2022 at 04:58 PM by Reziac Reziac is offline
  9. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    Thanks for spotting the nits! I've corrected them.

    If you look at my original post (no.31 in the "sticky" thread) you will see that what I envisaged was from the beginning a more philosophical introduction and not an installation guide because I'm not qualified to write that. I have never done a proper Slackware installation! But I was getting rather tired of all the misunderstandings between slackers and non-slackers; the forum is clogged up with threads of that kind.

    If there was a proper up-to-date installation guide, someone else would have to write it and imho it should be a sticky in the Slackware Installation subforum, not the main Slackware forum.
    Posted 02-10-2022 at 06:05 AM by hazel hazel is offline
  10. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    To me this blog post looks more like "what makes Slackware special" (which distinct it not only from Debian but also from other distributions) than a guide for new slackers.

    If I were a new slacker I would rather look first for practical information to quickly find my way: how to install, what are the main tools, what main packages are included, where is the documentation... As partially found in the links listed in https://docs.slackware.com/ under the title "Getting Started" with Slackware but all in a single page.

    As an aside I have tried to provide something like that long ago in https://docs.slackware.com/howtos:mi...with_slackware but the editors refused to put a link to it on the front page so probably few people came across it).

    This being said, as-is its content is interesting: maybe you could use it to expand https://docs.slackware.com/slackwarehilosophy so that it gets the exposure it deserves.

    Small nitpicks:
    1. The sentence "all the packaging tools are simple POSIX-compliant Bourne shell scripts" is inaccurate, as they contain many "bashisms" (constructs available in bash but not defined by POSIX sh) so running them in other shells than bash will often fail.
    2. Maybe it is worth mentioning that in Slackware 15.0 the packages database is in /var/lib/pkgtools (notwithstanding the handy symlinks to the previous locations).
    Posted 02-09-2022 at 04:39 PM by Didier Spaier Didier Spaier is offline
    Updated 02-09-2022 at 05:26 PM by Didier Spaier
  11. Old Comment

    Why Slackware is not like Debian: a guide for new slackers

    "Linux has always been about choice", yes, at least in the past, but less so these days sadly. Corporatism and "easyism" has affected GNU, whom is the principal behind choice and freedom. I'm not complaining that you say Linux, marely stating the driver behind freedom and choice, which some or many corporate sponsors want to suppress or get rid of (thus the attacks on GNU in various forms, but not attacks on Linux). Thus the corporate sponsored "open source" movement etc etc.

    Great post by the way! Thanks
    Posted 02-09-2022 at 12:26 PM by zeebra zeebra is offline
  12. Old Comment

    Disks, partitions and filesystems

    I just now noticed you're doing the blog thing... my goodness, these are excellent articles. Carry on!

    (I also see there's an RSS feed for my convenience!)
    Posted 01-05-2022 at 12:24 AM by Reziac Reziac is offline
  13. Old Comment

    Building software from source

    Not to mention meson/ninja. Seems there's another new build system almost every other week.

    Personally, I stick with simple, hand crafted makefiles. I have held the belief for a while now that GNU autotools is a case of "cure is worse than the disease", primarily owing to the additional complexity it introduces.

    Unfortunately, you have to use whatever the upstream developers decided when you're building other folk's software.
    Posted 05-12-2021 at 10:46 AM by GazL GazL is offline
  14. Old Comment

    Building software from source

    Thanks for the heads-up. I've rewritten that section a bit.
    Posted 05-11-2021 at 04:57 AM by hazel hazel is offline
  15. Old Comment

    Building software from source

    You forgot to mention CMake. It's being used a lot now instead of configure.
    Posted 05-10-2021 at 06:08 PM by kermitdafrog8 kermitdafrog8 is offline
  16. Old Comment

    Everything's a file

    Hi Hazel,

    I enjoyed reading this.

    Thanks!
    Posted 03-27-2021 at 03:06 PM by firefli firefli is offline
  17. Old Comment

    So what is Unix?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mulsimine View Comment
    Can you explain how systemd moves Linux further away?
    Systemd replaces plain text startup scripts with binary programs. It also provides a binary journal instead of plain text logs. This is very un-Unix-like, which is why a lot of people hate it to the point of obsession.

    One of the revolutionary things about the original UNIX was that the shell which the users used to launch commands was also used by the system to launch itself. That is no longer the case for Linux.
    Posted 02-27-2020 at 10:52 AM by hazel hazel is offline
  18. Old Comment

    How to read man pages

    Thank you, Hazel. This is a good start at shining a light on the man pages.
    Posted 01-11-2020 at 10:52 PM by Mikech Mikech is offline
  19. Old Comment

    How to read man pages

    Thank you for making the Man Page more understandable.
    Posted 01-10-2020 at 09:43 PM by greencedar greencedar is offline
  20. Old Comment

    So what is Unix?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cynwulf View Comment
    Nowadays with most Linux distributions adopting systemd, they are certainly moving further away from this.
    Can you explain how systemd moves Linux further away?
    Posted 12-10-2019 at 02:39 AM by Mulsimine Mulsimine is offline

  



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration