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Old 07-21-2019, 12:43 PM   #1
walker
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sistemd garbage antiX 17.4.1 core i386


I'm a little bit exposed so I did an emergency installation of antiX core with only openbox lxde xfce-screenshooter and netsurf as browser.

Looking for DVB-T kernel drivers in /lib I found the directory systemd, looking at the file inside it's created by programs like i.e. ufw and lightdm.

So I run find / -iname systemd and it give as result
/etc/systemd
/lib/systemd
/usr/lib/systemd
/var/lib/systemd

Maybe it's my fault, I'm Taliban but I don't like systemd garbage, the installation is on a 4GB SD which includes home so space is precious.

I deleted all the systemd directories and system works flawlessly anyway.

Isn't it possible to remove such garbage directly with a post install script in the installer?

Thanks a lot anyway!

Last edited by walker; 07-21-2019 at 12:44 PM.
 
Old 07-21-2019, 01:55 PM   #2
Ztcoracat
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You could write a script if you want to or you could disable systemd all together.

Sorry I can't help you write the script, I'm not a developer:-

https://www.google.com/search?client...YwDCNAQ4dUDCAo
 
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:53 PM   #3
walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
You could write a script if you want to or you could disable systemd all together.

Sorry I can't help you write the script, I'm not a developer:-

https://www.google.com/search?client...YwDCNAQ4dUDCAo
Don't worry!

It was, to say the plain truth, not only for me but a more general question say we for not so experienced.
To me it's not a problem, issue already solved it's for who doesn't have 17 GNU/Linux experience, why claim to be sistemd free and keep systemd garbage?
Why keep using deb src packages which should be heavily modified with waste of time instead of starting from plain vanilla source code?

What makes the difference is apt not deb IMHO
 
Old 07-22-2019, 12:38 PM   #4
Ztcoracat
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Got it:-

I'm not a fan of systemd and a lot of folks here at LQ aren't fond of it either.

I've been running Slackware (systemd free) for 8 years and never had any issue's.

Agreed, APT is an excellent command line utility:-

Can you link where you found the vanilla src code?
 
Old 07-22-2019, 03:14 PM   #5
freemedia2018
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I've been wondering about this for 5 years myself. There are times I wish someone explained why the systemd-free distros (which I've used all this time) leave this stuff present.

I figure "it's needed" but if so, why? And if not, why leave it?

I actually just got done talking to one of the systemd-free developers for a few hours. I mentioned it, but I don't push hard since I need to go and try a bunch of things before I can even ask an up-to-date question about it. Also he isn't with Antix so he can't answer a question for them--

I'd love to know why systemd is still here-- the specifics, because I think most of us can guess the generalities. I think waiting half a decade for a good answer is pretty patient, too.

Incidentally, on the machine where I use Void Linux, grep on every file on the system for "temd" yields this:

Code:
/run/cgmanager/agents/cgm-release-agent.systemd
/usr/share/mime/text/x-systemd-unit.xml
Two files. NOT BAD! Compare to others.

Is it just packaging?

I've not always deleted these file without problems, even when systemd isnt running as init.

P.S. systemd is never running as init.

Last edited by freemedia2018; 07-22-2019 at 03:16 PM.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 03:35 PM   #6
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
I've been wondering about this for 5 years myself. There are times I wish someone explained why the systemd-free distros (which I've used all this time) leave this stuff present.

I figure "it's needed" but if so, why? And if not, why leave it?

I actually just got done talking to one of the systemd-free developers for a few hours. I mentioned it, but I don't push hard since I need to go and try a bunch of things before I can even ask an up-to-date question about it. Also he isn't with Antix so he can't answer a question for them--

I'd love to know why systemd is still here-- the specifics, because I think most of us can guess the generalities. I think waiting half a decade for a good answer is pretty patient, too.

Incidentally, on the machine where I use Void Linux, grep on every file on the system for "temd" yields this:

Code:
/run/cgmanager/agents/cgm-release-agent.systemd
/usr/share/mime/text/x-systemd-unit.xml
Two files. NOT BAD! Compare to others.

Is it just packaging?

I've not always deleted these file without problems, even when systemd isnt running as init.

P.S. systemd is never running as init.
Those harmless files are there to trick the program into thinking that systemd is present. Many people are now writing programs assuming systemd is present, even if the program has no or little use of systemd. So one trick is to have the empty files present and since computers still cannot "think" they are easily fooled. Make sense.
 
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:03 PM   #7
freemedia2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Those harmless files are there to trick the program into thinking that systemd is present. Many people are now writing programs assuming systemd is present, even if the program has no or little use of systemd. So one trick is to have the empty files present and since computers still cannot "think" they are easily fooled. Make sense.
Thank you.
 
Old 07-22-2019, 04:12 PM   #8
Ztcoracat
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If it helps, systemd is installed in MX Linux however; it's disabled:-
 
Old 07-27-2019, 03:24 AM   #9
walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Those harmless files are there to trick the program into thinking that systemd is present. Many people are now writing programs assuming systemd is present, even if the program has no or little use of systemd. So one trick is to have the empty files present and since computers still cannot "think" they are easily fooled. Make sense.
I know exactly the cause but there's also a more easy solution.
My surprise is that the Real community does't avoid programs written by systemd friendly programmers i.e. ufw
Is it so hard for a billion people community join and run for the true GNU/Linux as it was in principle?
Why we should have Big Corps binaries in our systems?
Linux is not RED HAT to me they can also stop to "contribute".
If a program without "tricks" doesn't work to me that program can, sorry, piss off.
 
Old 07-27-2019, 04:50 AM   #10
walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
Got it:-

I'm not a fan of systemd and a lot of folks here at LQ aren't fond of it either.

I've been running Slackware (systemd free) for 8 years and never had any issue's.

Agreed, APT is an excellent command line utility:-

Can you link where you found the vanilla src code?
I use antiX as I said but I wasn't able to find ufw in antiX packages repository, maybe they use the debian package directly without modification and cause this it comes systemd garbage
https://packages.debian.org/stretch/ufw

In the original source makefile the creation of the systemd garbage is not stated
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archiv...35.orig.tar.gz

Even if, even worse, ufw seems a Canonical or Canonical fan boy program and the makefile highlight that ufw is programmed with Snap in mind.

It's already proved that the use of snap compared to deb and rpm due to load of each library at the start of every program (I suspect that the same problem affects FlatPak AppImage aso) slow down system and IMHO also increases hardware requirement
https://snapcraft.io/blog/snap-start...e-improvements
Use of shared libraries it's a lot less resource hungry.

We are billion.
Are we not able to swim away from Big Corps which want to impose their Linux getting virtually rid of GNU and also Big Corps bootlickers as Debian seems now?

Why programmers keep using the newest library, prones to not yet discovered bugs?

The problem is that too much freedom brings anarchy and anarchy is letting Big Corps eating the true dear old GNU/Linux
 
Old 07-27-2019, 05:03 AM   #11
walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
If it helps, systemd is installed in MX Linux however; it's disabled:-
That's why I don't use and won't never use MX-Linux
 
Old 07-27-2019, 05:14 AM   #12
walker
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Talking

P.S. Don't care if sometimes appears macos near the penguin in some posts.

I faked my daily driver browser's headers to make a little harder to find a way to attack me
 
Old 07-27-2019, 02:24 PM   #13
rokytnji
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Whatever

Code:
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1
 
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:27 AM   #14
walker
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Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Whatever

Code:
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1
This is a forum for every one not only for GNU/Linux gurus it's better to explain that the file shown is stored in /etc/apt/preferences.d/

cat /etc/apt/preferencens.d/00systemd
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

and it's useless if there's still systemd garbage in the system.
This garbage is keep using Debian src package cause as we have seen previously ufw source doesn't contain that garbage included cause inserted instead by Debian in its src package.

At this point it's better to let Debian sink hanged to systemd.
IMHO

Last edited by walker; 07-28-2019 at 07:34 AM.
 
Old 07-28-2019, 11:12 AM   #15
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walker View Post
This is a forum for every one not only for GNU/Linux gurus it's better to explain that the file shown is stored in /etc/apt/preferences.d/

cat /etc/apt/preferencens.d/00systemd
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

and it's useless if there's still systemd garbage in the system.
This garbage is keep using Debian src package cause as we have seen previously ufw source doesn't contain that garbage included cause inserted instead by Debian in its src package.

At this point it's better to let Debian sink hanged to systemd.
IMHO
I'm no longer seeing your point in this thread. You were told why the files are there, you were shown how to run the system without systemd, there are plenty of distros that do not use it, but may include those empty files/folders. Use it or don't use it, but ranting and having a digital tantrum will not change anything.
 
  


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