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2018 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards This forum is for the 2018 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards.
You can now vote for your favorite projects/products of 2018. This is your chance to be heard! Voting ends on February 12th.


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View Poll Results: Programming Language of the Year
Ada 0 0%
Assembly 4 1.97%
AWK 7 3.45%
C 35 17.24%
C# 1 0.49%
C++ 21 10.34%
Clojure 1 0.49%
COBOL 1 0.49%
Common Lisp 3 1.48%
D 2 0.99%
Dart 0 0%
Erlang 1 0.49%
Fortran 1 0.49%
Free Pascal 0 0%
Go 3 1.48%
Haskell 3 1.48%
Java 9 4.43%
Javascript 4 1.97%
Julia 1 0.49%
Lua 1 0.49%
Objective-C 0 0%
Perl 12 5.91%
Pharo 0 0%
PHP 7 3.45%
Python 66 32.51%
R 1 0.49%
Ruby 6 2.96%
Rust 8 3.94%
Scala 0 0%
Scheme 2 0.99%
Swift 3 1.48%
Tcl 0 0%
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-27-2019, 04:11 PM   #16
Corvette
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Java for me, as I love its flexibility. Yes, it is verbose and may not be "trendy" or "cool" as newer languages, but it is excellent tool to "get the job done". C++ is a language I have been exposed to and would love to learn in-depth, but I really do not have any practical applications for it in my work environment. JavaScript is a necessary evil for me (sorry, JS fans).
 
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:02 AM   #17
Michael Uplawski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette View Post
"get the job done".
Rant. No war intended. And I do not hide the corpses.

Having developed commercial software in Java for years, my own ... I cannot shut up, sorry.
I have to replace “get the job done” by “identify in the community-provided libraries and frameworks which were only part of a monstrous heap of stuff advertised to do too much that I have never asked for, some piece which might respond to my requirements.”.

Sometimes, I got the job done, with Java. Sometimes I found the code which got it done. In any case and even where I consider my own contributions negligible, the results were too complicated and too huge. Especially in Web-development, the way that error-messages where cryptic and often unrelated to the core problem, I cannot but attribute the mischief to an ill-advised choice of programming tools. Alas.., at the time, we did probably not have much of a choice.

And all this, not just the grammar, byte-interpreter and compiler, is called Java. You cannot separate them if you want “anything done”. Wasn't Sun created by Germans? Won't you ever learn... Don't trust me, do not give anything for my words. Thank you!

Last edited by Michael Uplawski; 02-09-2019 at 01:10 AM.
 
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:19 AM   #18
Corvette
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Thanks for your response Michael Uplawski. I probably do not have your experience, but I am a software developer by profession and my experience has been quite different. That being said, Java and its ecosystem have evolved, and I do not think I would care so much for the language in its early days or without the support of tools such as Gradle and Maven. I have used (and sometimes continue to use) JavaScript (including some its popular frameworks and libraries), C#, PHP, Visual Basic (*shudders*), R, and ActionScript (thanks to some coursework); it was only after experience with other language that I settled on Java. Of course which programming language is "right" is partially a matter of opinion and the sum of our experiences, but, (and this a genuine question) what do you use as an alternative? I have a lot of respect and interest for C++ and Rust as languages, but I do not think they would be practical for me in my present work environment.
 
Old 02-10-2019, 03:05 AM   #19
Michael Uplawski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette View Post
what do you use as an alternative?
Great question!

And I even change the keyboard setup from fr to de to type a little swifter. Many people will expect yet another sermon about this being better than that if and when and under certain conditions. We can shorten that. Put the question differently: an alternative for what exactly?

Are you working in a team? - Ask the team what they think about web-centered development in other languages. This needs time and a lot of reading. I have a response and it is based forcibly on my own experience and practice.

Are you working for an enterprise with a “culture” or (worse) “guiding theme”? - You are doomed. Do not ask.

Are you alone? - Try something else, which asks more of your own imagination and be willing to break barriers and break paradigms. My response is actually the same as for working in a team.

I have a proposition: If you do web-development, try Ruby. In any other case, there are languages like D which can be seen as intermediate between Java and C/C++ (not exactly in the middle between them). I do not know the obstacles that you face with C++, but try to attack them directly rather than looking for an alternative language or programming universe.

What is better in Ruby than in Java? You are basically free of all the constraints which are artificially imposed by Java, its community and its tools. Not free of the constraints that are imposed by your project and the necessity for abstraction. Even where you choose or have to choose a web-development framework (like Rails, Sinatra or others) you are always in a position to quickly liberate yourself of their imposed rules, and quite easily so.

Acceleration in development for me is not a value in itself. But it liberates me of boring tasks as I am focusing already on the next one, while I am just typing down code. I know from experience that my Java-code used to call me back frequently, either because some truth had been hidden behind a class or library which became obvious too late or because a modification of the specs asked for a modifications of my components. With all the dependencies and so many external libraries around, these modifications need a lot of thought before you can return to your original developoment tasks.

I do not want to tell stories. But the way that Java code must be nursed and caressed diverted many people from programming useful stuff. And some tend to praise their language for the ease in which they arrive at just modifying stuff that does not work so that it does work. But that is not programming.

Like when OJB ceased to support some database constraints and we were suddenly exposed to the risk of heavy data-loss. It was OUR project, OUR database-design but some community muddled it. Before our customers could notice, we had to exchange OJB by Hibernate. Gain: NONE. Complcation: Arbitrary, as I did not have experience in using Hibernate programmatically and the XML-syntax of the configuration was also completely new to me.
Dumb as I was, I had been proud of the result. Which result..?

I just repeat: All this is a single complex world and it is called Java.

Last edited by Michael Uplawski; 02-10-2019 at 10:08 AM.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:40 AM   #20
Corvette
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Excellent and informative response Michael Uplawski. Sounds like you have been in the industry far longer than I have, so I truly appreciate your taking the time to share your experience.

I am really the only developer at my organization, and my most common task is developing all the layers (client, server, and datastore) of web apps. I think one of my barriers to C++/C is just that. As much as I would love to learn C++, my focus on web development and the fact that taking the time to learn a new language that is relatively complex (compared to something such as Ruby, Python, R, etc.) would probably slow down my development time substantially. Though if WebAssembly matures, I think that would probably just the investment.

That being said, thanks for the suggestion on Ruby. From my experience, people who use it seem to love it. As silly as it seems, the syntax is one of the things that deterred me from learning Ruby previously. When it comes to programming languages, I was born and bred on curly braces and semicolons, so it just seems a bit foreign. However, I believe it is a fairly easy language to learn, so I think it would be worth exploring and trying a bit more.

Thanks again!
 
Old 02-10-2019, 10:21 AM   #21
Michael Uplawski
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I do not hope to tear anyone away from her/his favorite language.

As regards Ruby and its learning curve (which is an off-topic question in the thread as well in the current exchange about Java), I want to compare Ruby to spoken, living languages. You have languages like German which are huge in grammar, hence difficult to learn. Then you have languages like English which are easy to learn. As regards application in actual conversation, it is exactly the inverse: as you have been obliged to master the grammar, you just say what you want in German and it usually fits. Words are made up on demand, that is why German poetry is mostly boring, nowadays. English is difficult to use, as you have to put much thought on phrasing and context, as words do not matter so much and the grammar does not help you either with expressing precise facts or nuances.

Ruby is none of both.

You are quickly using the core language to write running (small) applications... maybe call them scripts. But this shall not lure you into thinking of it like a replacement for the shell. Full-blown multi-tier applications rely heavily on object oriented design. And even more than with C/C++ and Java, Ruby experts, especially Web-developers make use of the meta-programming capacities of the language... you will be able to adapt the language itself to your needs and make it function as you like.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Uplawski View Post
And even more than with C/C++ and Java, Ruby experts, especially Web-developers make use of the meta-programming capacities of the language... you will be able to adapt the language itself to your needs and make it function as you like.
You mean, like a poor implementation of Scheme?
 
Old 02-11-2019, 01:32 PM   #23
Michael Uplawski
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You mean, like a poor implementation of Scheme?
I mean nothing and I know less.
 
Old 02-12-2019, 08:50 AM   #24
BW-userx
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C, most stuff is written in c if it is not written in something else. but yeah C. Even the Kernel is written in C. yeah so C, though I use C++ sometimes just to have it written in C++ because it has a lot of built in stuff, boost is something I exposed myself to.
 
Old 02-13-2019, 11:23 AM   #25
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I'm curious: what was the last year where Perl won?
 
Old 02-13-2019, 03:27 PM   #26
YesItsMe
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All Python and no Perl makes YesItsMe a dull boy.
 
Old 02-14-2019, 02:11 PM   #27
zeebra
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Not sure about python as a programming language, but I really hate having to work with the environment.
 
Old 02-14-2019, 04:42 PM   #28
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Seems funny how Python is way out ahead as the most popular, but nobody has talked it up at all... I really like it (having used most of the languages on that list). It was nice when I moved to Linux and just installed Geany, wrote some code and ran it with zero configuration required.
 
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:02 PM   #29
YesItsMe
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Python has a relatively low entry level. The problem with it is that most of its users won't advance.
 
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:31 PM   #30
Samsonite2010
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Quote:
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Python has a relatively low entry level. The problem with it is that most of its users won't advance.
Advance into what though? I spent most of my career with C, C++, Java & C# (depending on the projects), but have not touched them for a few years. I don't miss them one bit.
 
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