2006 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice AwardsThis forum is for the 2006 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards.
You can now vote for your favorite products of 2006. This is your chance to be heard! Voting ends February 18th.
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View Poll Results: Desktop Environment of the Year
I don't understand why people keep saying KDE is Windows like. KDE was in existence long before WinXP copied a lot of it's look and features. I also don't understand why Gnome Fanboys think Gnome looks any different. All of them let you move your task bar to your location of choice. Top, bottom, side, doesn't really matter. A taskbar is still a taskbar....
You're absolutely right, and the arguments are laughably immature. Personally, I've never tried KDE, XFCE, Mac, or anything else. I switched from Win98 to Ubuntu, which installed Gnome. And I continue to use Gnome because it works. Period.
The whole idea behind Linux is freedom (as in liberty, freedom of choice, or however you wish to say it), and the "Choice Awards" are mostly for fun. It's not a Presidential Election... the "losers" will not disappear.
I've until just now been running on KDE. I installed Compiz (Dec 31 build or something) on my machine, and I tried GNOME as it seems to be the "home" enviroment for that program. Both desktops are pretty darn good. For anyone who wants to gripe about KDE looking too much like Windows, GNOME is almost the spitting image of quite a few older Mac's I've seen. KDE bears some resemblences to Windows, I'll admit, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Really, what is so bad about the taskbar and Start menu?
I voted KDE. I really do enjoy the look of GNOME, especially the tango based icons/themes. I just don't like many gnome/gtk apps besides gnome-terminal. I sometimes feel frustrated when trying to configure a gnome-based application because of the minimal options. The KDE-based applications IMHO are simply more functional than the gnome counterparts. Amarok is heads and shoulders superior to other audio apps out there. I find I like working with Kmail much more than evolution. Finally, konsole is a really functional and configurable terminal.
I do like Xfce 4.4 quite a bit and will be taking a closer look at it on my Slack box (thanks to Robby Workman's slack pkgs.)
yeah kde isan't bloated just has lots of apps .I Like the util apps better easy to used but I still like to know how and do it from cli too .love konsole with the tabs . 16 or so open mmmmmmm good
now artd chmod -x ;D .So many times I here that flux seamonkey ff etc run faster and less resources. I tried and thats not true at all. It works just the same in both .
My favourite is Gnome. Its appearance is much tidier than that of KDE and it's second to none in terms of usability IMHO. The work on Gnome's human interface guidelines has paid off.
KDE users-GNOME and XFCE users are also living here!
^^ I completely Agree.GNOME bashing should be stopped for the growth of FOSS-mostly from KDE fanboys.
after Windows Users bashing Linuxers,now the ghost of Windows is coming up with KDE-and its users famous for intolerance and GNOME bashing service.I mean,How can you tolerate posts made in tux magazine flaming other DE users than KDE are.
Quote:
The KDE project is famous for its funded and organised trolling of
weblogs and message board associated with Linux and Free software/open
source. Outrageous newbie impressing claims are made for the software
and huge quanities of FUD are spread to destroy competitors. If this
sounds familiar, then you are correct, most of these tactics were
lifted straight from Microsoft's arsenal of dirty tricks. The Windows
look and feel is not the only thing the KDE project has copied! In
this short article I will address some of the lies and FUD spread by
the KDE trolling teams. It is my hope that this, in some small way,
will redress the balance and re-introduce two things almost eradicated
by the KDE project: Honesty and facts.
Myth #1 - KDE is more integrated than GNOME
The oft-heard cry of the noisiest KDE advocates. No explanation is
given, the reader is expected to simply grok the wholesomeness of KDE
and the lack of this mystical quality in GNOME. It is nonsense of
course. Neither desktop is particularly "integrated" compared to
Windows XP, and certainly not compared any version of the Apple Mac.
Whatever "integrated" actually means.
Myth #2 - KDE is easier to use
Again, such nebulous arguments are never explained, and the reader is
expected to simply understand the truth of the zealots statement. Both
KDE and GNOME have user-interface irritations (all systems do), but
"ease of use" is not a simple thing to measure. KDE has never been
subjected to detailed user testing, unlike GNOME [gnome.org]
[gnome.org], and the claims of user-friendliness are from crazed
supporters and not average users. Furthermore, the KDE faithful rarely
look beyond simple-minded copying of Windows, and forget that
administering a desktop system is just as important as having widgets
in the correct place on the toolbar. For example: What about
application installation and removal? GNOME has the excellent
RedCarpet by Ximian [ximian.com] [ximian.com], which makes the
installation, removal and updating of applications trivial. KDE users
are expected to fend for themselves with brutal command line driven
systems. GNOME also has the excellent Ximian setup tools to handle
various tricky cross-platform and potentially risky system
configuration operations. KDE offers none of this, only a few small
half-assed Linux-only tools, which make no attempt at check-pointing
to return to known working configurations.
Myth #3 - KDE is more popular
In what sense? Arguably more people use KDE, but it is a close run
thing. Most KDE zealots use the results of online polls as proof of
their superior userbase - which is, quite frankly, complete and utter
nonsense. Online polls are the joke of the century; it doesn't even
require a motivated script kiddie to render then worthless. A single
post alerting the faithful on a zealot-ridden site can skew the result
so much it makes American presidential elections look fair and well
organised. Popularity is also difficult to measure when *both* GNOME
and KDE are frequently installed on the same system. The systems can
co-exist and even run at the same time, except for certain
applications such as panels. Many KDE users actually run GNOME
applications for their superior features and stability, not realising
that by doing so they are barely running KDE at all.
One of the few solid measures of popularity is commercial use of a
desktop, and here, GNOME is far ahead with both Hewlett Packard and
Sun committing to using GNOME as the desktop for their Unix systems.
This also ties in with the previously mentioned ease of use. Sun's
major contribution to the GNOME project is in the areas of
user/developer documentation, testing, accessiblity and user-testing.
Three of the less glamourous parts of desktop development. The arrival
of the GNOME 2.x series will see these contributions reach fruitition
and allow GNOME to make a quantum leap ahead of KDE in most of the
basic computer/user issues.
Myth #4 - Konqueror is the best Linux browser
Oh for a penny every time this lie is told in any KDE story! Konqueror
not a bad piece of software. It's authors deserve praise for the work
done on it. However, the sheer amount of orgasmic gushing by the KDE
faithful is completely out of proportion to its actual quality. It is
quite unreliable and even simple standards compliant pages can crash
it quite comprehensively. It is also lax in its support of basic web
standards compared to either Mozilla or Opera. It is also extremely
slow - much slower than the latest incarnations of the GNOME Nautilus
filemanager/browser (a target of much KDE FUD during its development).
Myth #5 - KDE applications are better/more advanced than GNOME ones
due to the ease of developing in C++ using the Qt toolkit
See also: Qt/TrollTech. This is the most common wail heard by KDE
developers, and yet it is easily disproved by looking at the actual
applications for GNOME/GTK and KDE/Qt. KDE applications often have
larger version numbers than GNOME ones... an old trick played by
commerical software developers. Most KDE apps seem to jump for 1.x
releases long before they are ready - KOffice being the best example.
None of the components in Koffice are worthy of a 1.0 release, let
alone 1.1 or 1.2.
GNOME applications get much more testing in their 0.x stages and
despite shorter development phases they mature and reach stable
featureful release states much more quickly. Some examples of this
are: the superb Evolution (groupware/email), Gnumeric (spreadsheet),
Pan (newsreader), The GIMP (image manipulation), Abiword (word
processing), RedCarpet, X-Chat (IRC client), XMMS (media player),
Galeon (web browser), and for developers: Glade and Anjuta. All of
these packages ooze quality, and far outclass their KDE counterparts.
It is no understatement to say that GNOME is at least 18 months ahead
of KDE in applications, and pulling still further ahead.
It's not only in the area of user applications that GNOME is vastly
more advanced. With the forthcoming 2.x release, a number of
impressive behind the scenes technologies will finally mature:
component technology (bonobo), media (Gstreamer), internationalisation
(pango). As a developement platform, GNOME 2.x is, conservatively, 2-3
years ahead of KDE. And what is more, because it is not tied to a
lowest common denominator cross-platform bloat-fest like the Qt
toolkit, the lead (as with applications) can only increase further.
It is also worth noting that GNOME also develops code for use outside
the project (see the XML libraries as one example) - the KDE project
rarely (if ever) engages in this kind of work. KDE developers ensure
that all software must link with Qt, and hence tie it closely with the
Qt toolkit preventing re-use and enhancing the value of TrollTech
intellectual property.
Yet despite all this, we are still regularly fed the lie that Qt and
C++ makes application and desktop development easier. Judge for
yourself.
Myth #6 - KDE is faster and takes less memory than GNOME
KDE is written in C++. While this is not necessarily a problem, it can
be when Visual Basic reject programmers (which the KDE project is
overrun with) do not know enough to avoid important pitfalls that
plague C++ software projects. Stupid use of autoincrementing operators
and iteration with C++ objects; and masses of unnecessary allocations
and deallocations of memory are two of the most common. KDE suffers
badly from both problems.
Perhaps the most cretinous of all problems is blaming the extremely
slow startup times of KDE apps on GCC. The GNOME 1.x releases were
hardly svelt (2.x fixes many of these issues), but GNOME is a fashion
cat-walk superwaif when compared to KDE's 500lb fat-momma
cheese-burger scoffing trailer trash. One need only look at the recent
fuss over ugly KDE hacks (such as prelinking) used to bandage up the
design and coding flaws in the decrepit KDE architecture to see the
truth.
Myth #7 - GNOME development is slower. KDE releases faster.
Fundamental misunderstanding. The KDE project releases as one big lump
of code due to its use of C++ and the many problems this causes with
libraries. The project bumps the version number of the entire KDE
system for the smallest modifications. GNOME, on the other hand is
componentized and each component releases on a (almost) separate
schedule, bumping it's own version number but not the main GNOME
version (1.4, for example). Occasional releases of the entire GNOME
system happen, and that's when the GNOME version number is bumped
(currently it is at 1.4). To see this in action, use RedCarpet and you
will regular updates to GNOME components. GNOME development is not
slower, it is in fact faster and more advanced. Lamers and newbies,
however, fail to understand the advantages of this method and just see
KDE 1.1.1 followed a few weeks later by KDE 1.1.2. Wow! KDE roolz.
I'd like to give this post link for My GNOME DE Users on How to cope up with this GNOME bashing from kde users/fanboys,companies and the DEAD(ly) tuxmagazine! Discussion On How To Deal With Inflammatory Posts
the anti gnome flamage on not only KDE, but "neutral" forums like Linux Today and Slashdot in particular is immense (and very often, especially on Slashdot pro-gnome comments get moderated to oblivion by KDE see :
^^ I completely Agree.GNOME bashing should be stopped for the growth of FOSS-mostly from KDE fanboys.
after Windows Users bashing Linuxers,now the ghost of Windows is coming up with KDE-and its users famous for intolerance and GNOME bashing service.I mean,How can you tolerate posts made in tux magazine flaming other DE users than KDE are.
Hypocricy, anyone?
You can't claim to be an advocate of freedom if you then use that supposed status to tell people that they cannot do something. That's _not_ freedom.
Personally, it makes little difference to me how open source my software is. I'm not the kind of person who fiddles with the gubbinses, nor do I tend to do much compiling. I like open source software because it makes better code than closed source. I use binary drivers, I even use MS software occasionally when it's the right tool for the job. More often than not, the best tool is an open source one (and working under Linux is obviously a major contributor to 'good for the job')
I do like the freedom aspect of it, too. Which is why i _never_ tell people what they can and cannot do with their PC (even if it includes using Windows - it's their PC not mine). Surely that's what MS is almost universally hated for?
I'm not sure how KDE is the ghost of Windows, but you've been devoid of reason thus far, so i'm not expecting that comment to be grounded in reality.
I don't like Gnome because it's completely non-intuitive by default, and i'd rather not have to reconfigure it to work how I like it every time I install or boot a liveCD. Why is there no address bar in the file browser? Why do I have to click so many times to change a save path? Sure, some people get along with that. I don't, so I don't use it. Same reason I don't use Windows or firefox or left-handed scissors.
But, like I said, you've got the freedom to install and use Gnome, so I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong on that front. Just that if you're using gnome for the freedom aspect, you've surely got to respect other people's rights to their freedom to choose their DE?
^^ that freedom to choose our fav de was devoided from us,once u read tuxmagazine;I am a GNOME user and I dont want to hear any KDE fanboys bashing my fav DE GNOME.how is it if i bash/say ur crappy KDE/qt bloated $h!t?-the same provocation is what which formed when doing GNOME bashing.Half of the DE users cannot be wrong(GNOME).I mean how can you bash a project pioneered by GNU itself for the sake of a company(trolltech?)...think independently -is it good?I already explained why KDE fanboyism harms foss.just read the rants thrown out by kde fanboys against other DE's and GNOME in particular.DEFINITELY this sort of KDE fanboyism doesnt help FLOSS growing.also this stands true as windows fanboys once somehow changed their platform to GNU/Linux,they are searching for the windows GHOST(yes!kde) and then their fanboyism is motivated against GNOME.poor GNOME users,KDE users are the biggest problem FLOSS is facing.(am not saying all kde users are fanboys!)
read some anti gnome quotes from the mag itself. Tux and the anti-Gnome sentiment
also:
Quote:
People hate being preached to. Just like KDE users hate being preached to about the virtues of GNOME and vice versa, most Windows users dislike being preached to about how much Windows sucks in comparison to Linux. So, rule #1: be objective - no dissing the other side. It’s one thing that I noticed when glancing through TUX Magazine[1] out of curiosity and interest in what seems to be a great idea. There’s a certain Q&A column in this mag, authored under the handle of “Mango Parfait” that I have to say really pulls strings. She is blatantly pro-KDE and anti-GNOME, with no objectivity whatsoever. Not to mention she pulls off the stereotypical ditzy female quite well! We don’t need that. Biased preaching triggers anger. Logic and objectivity are so much more effective. We’re defensive a lot of times; our often jaded position has bred this reaction. We’re better than that.
A tip from TUX Magazine Issue #12, April 2006, and guess from who? From Mango Parfait, the professional GNOME basher!
A reader asked a hint for setting a a working directory for applications launched with WINE, because... "Some Windows programs require the setting of a working directory when the program is started."
The all-mighty, all-kindly MANGO was unable to answer without the usual opening:
« ... GNOME is designed for people who do not know about things like working directories. GNOME is for people who are so confused by options like working directory that if they see an option like this in a dialog, they become stiff from fear and maybe have a seizure and need to go to the hospital. The GNOME designers do not want their users to go to the hospital, so they do not put options like working directory in the settings. This is very thoughtful. ... So if you are too stupid for KDE, GNOME is perfect for you. If you are too smart for KDE and do not like the fact that KDE makes options simple, GNOME is perfect for you. If you are anywhere in between these two types of people, you should use KDE or something else. »
But the real answer is to add a line "Path=<path>" to the <application>.desktop file.
see the truth for urself.we GNOME users are not that hard,we dont want kde fanboyism for the sake of FLOSS and accept other DE's to let their growth for eg:XFCE
just think independently,and make it the new year resolution although late "I never hate and propaogate hate against GNOME and other non-KDE DE's"
infact if GNOME is not there,then these kde fancraps will start bashing any other opposition from other superior competent DE for eg:XFCE.so ALL WORLD Desktop ENvironment Users!wake against the FUD ing from QT/KDE and its fanboys!Let GNU/Linux grow without KDE!not a problem at all
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KDE users-GNOME and XFCE users are also living here!
