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2003 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards This forum is for the 2003 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards.
You can now vote for your favorite products of 2003. This is your chance to be heard!

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View Poll Results: Web Development Editor of the Year
Quanta 233 49.26%
Bluefish 215 45.45%
Ginf 3 0.63%
FCKeditor 1 0.21%
Screem 21 4.44%
Voters: 473. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 12-31-2003, 07:50 PM   #61
jknacnud
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Utah
Distribution: SuSE 9
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Quote:
Intuition is educable. Unfortunately it's also often context dependent as you discover once vi is 'intuitive' to you and you find yourself in a non-modal editor typing a bunch of j's as you try to scroll down.
HA! Good call. That far into VI I have been. I have at least learned some basics including the very important, "when in doubt, press escape multiple times".
 
Old 01-03-2004, 04:49 PM   #62
abysser
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Czech Republic, Brno
Distribution: Fedora Core I
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Go BlueFish go... you're superb... sometimes less is better than more ... quanta is kde, not gnome and screem is fine but little bit "overloaded" to many functions .... bleeh ...
 
Old 01-08-2004, 04:13 PM   #63
alfie
Debian Developer
 
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Vienna / Austria / Europe / Earth / Milky Way
Distribution: Debian
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Vim??

Where is the problem? I can understand that vim isn't listed under Word Processors for it is about .doc and not LaTeX or similar -- but I can't really understand why vim (and yes, even Emacs) aren't listed here. I am quite sure that the users of those editors for doing Web Development aren't a minority in any sense...

Please add vim and emacs, or something like "plain text editors" or such... Although both vim and emacs have quite powerful html modes and support for doing html in them. Otherwise I guess quite some people are going to refuse to vote on this.
 
Old 01-11-2004, 01:10 PM   #64
abysser
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Location: Czech Republic, Brno
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vim?

Well you're right ... they ar very good, but i think, that this question is based on finding the best user-friendly web editor!.
 
Old 01-20-2004, 08:50 PM   #65
PR0T0N
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Serbia
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All these programs are very poor... I think that Web dewelopment is the poorest area when talking about availible aplications on linux system. I really dont see why is that.. The only reason I still use windows is because Dreamveawer...
I wait for the dreamveawer-like aplication on linux...
 
Old 01-20-2004, 09:16 PM   #66
fyoder
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 111

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"All these programs are very poor... I think that Web dewelopment is the poorest area when talking about availible aplications on linux system. I really dont see why is that.. The only reason I still use windows is because Dreamveawer...
I wait for the dreamveawer-like aplication on linux..."

That's a matter of opinion I suppose. Once upon a time in *NIX land developers knew what they were doing and did it with a powerful text editor like vim or emacs. As Linux becomes more popular I expect we'll see more dreamweaver type stuff for ex-windows users. There's room for both *nix techies and windows artistes.
 
Old 01-20-2004, 09:22 PM   #67
jknacnud
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Registered: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by PR0T0N
All these programs are very poor... I think that Web dewelopment is the poorest area when talking about availible aplications on linux system. I really dont see why is that.. The only reason I still use windows is because Dreamveawer...
I wait for the dreamveawer-like aplication on linux...
So write one. Quit complaining and do something about it. Linux is open source as are most of the programs running on it, which means that they are written by people who don't get paid for it. Count yourself blest that you even have what you have in an OS other than Windoze or Mac.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 01:15 AM   #68
slakmagik
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Registered: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by jknacnud
So write one. Quit complaining and do something about it. Linux is open source as are most of the programs running on it, which means that they are written by people who don't get paid for it. Count yourself blest that you even have what you have in an OS other than Windoze or Mac.
Maybe you've written lots of programs and so this doesn't apply to you, but I *know* half the people who say that haven't even written a shell script. And they say it to people who may well *have* written 37 apps already and don't have the time or specialized knowledge to write the Great HTML Editor for project #38. That's just passing the buck, anyway. All these guys have already taken it upon themselves to 'do something about it' and if they suck we really don't need yet *another* alpha-level HTML program, written by someone who's only coding it out of deperation and an inability to find something good, to add to the pile. Criticism is valid - it lets the coders who are already coding know they have work to do - IF their objective is to make users happy. And IF not, then it doesn't freaking matter if people criticize their work because they don't care.

I happen to think wysiwyg editors are demon spawn and that Linux has several excellent html editors but I still think that just telling people to 'write one' is cheap.

And this isn't so much directed at you as the hundreds of people who say it as well.

(Disclaimer - I've written nothing *but* crappy shell scripts, but someday I hope I will 'write one' - and even then I don't see my attitude changing and expecting everyone to be a full-time coder.)

-- edit cuz I forgot to note: "Count yourself blest that you even have what you have in an OS other than Windoze or Mac." I definitely agree with that. I just don't think that means to 'shut up and be happy'. I still think criticizing something you love and appreciate to make it better, so you love and appreciate even more, is valid. Otherwise, it's just a kind of open source fascism where we can't speak our feelings against the powers that be.

Last edited by slakmagik; 01-21-2004 at 01:19 AM.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 01:55 AM   #69
jknacnud
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Utah
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First, thank you for your comments and for forcing me to elaborate. Ok, let me defend my post.

Quote:
"do something about it"
This could mean more than just write your own, it could mean anything that is helpful. From listing all the specific points that could be worked on (Instead of just saying "All these programs are very poor"), and then offering your ideas and suggestions, to organizing a programming effort.


Quote:
Criticism is valid - it lets the coders who are already coding know they have work to do - IF their objective is to make users happy. And IF not, then it doesn't freaking matter if people criticize their work because they don't care.
A slight correction, "[Constructive] Criticism is valid". Just whining about how something is lame or not as cool as such and such is not helpful to anyone.


Quote:
I just don't think that means to 'shut up and be happy'.
I agree. If we all were to shut up and be happy then nothing would ever happen and there would be no Linux or any Linux apps.


Quote:
I still think criticizing something you love and appreciate to make it better, so you love and appreciate even more, is valid. Otherwise, it's just a kind of open source fascism where we can't speak our feelings against the powers that be.
"Feelings are irrelevant." "[Feelings] are things for cattle or loveplay..." Feelings don't make programs better. Facts make programs better. Telling me that a program is poor, or broke, or dumb, or any other non-descriptive term is not helpful. As for being "against" the "powers that be", I would think that you would want to be on the same side as those powers that are making your apps. No?

Last edited by jknacnud; 01-21-2004 at 01:58 AM.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 02:16 AM   #70
slakmagik
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 4,113

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Quote:
This could mean more than just write your own, it could mean anything that is helpful. From listing all the specific points that could be worked on (Instead of just saying "All these programs are very poor"), and then offering your ideas and suggestions, to organizing a programming effort.


Absolutely, but that wasn't really what came across with the first post.

Quote:
A slight correction, "[Constructive] Criticism is valid". Just whining about how something is lame or not as cool as such and such is not helpful to anyone.


I'd grant that, but that depends on technical knowledge and being articulate. Some people don't have even those skills and yet they are still users of the application. For instance (not to speak for the previous poster at all and not to imply it was inarticulate) but English may not be the speaker's native language. His 'feelings' (I'll get to that) are still valid.

Quote:
I agree. If we all were to shut up and be happy then nothing would ever happen and there would be no Linux or any Linux apps.


Yep.

Quote:
"Feelings are irrelevant." "[Feelings] are things for cattle or loveplay..." Feelings don't make programs better. Facts make programs better. Telling me that a program is poor, or broke, or dumb, or any other non-descriptive term is not helpful. As for being "against" the "powers that be", I would think that you would want to be on the same side as those powers that are making your apps. No?
Now time for me to thank you for forcing me to elaborate. I don't mean 'feelings' in the sense that people 'feel' colors are pretty or ugly. I just meant 'feelings' in the sense of the disposition of the user while using the program. He may not know why he finds himself unproductive with a particular program or he may be and be unable to express or any number of things. While I absolutely agree that 'it sucks' is *almost* valueless in that the programmer can take no action to modify the 'suck bug' he can still consider that a user has expressed disatisfaction and maybe not put the app in maintenance mode just yet. He can still strive to make it better and maybe have the side effect of making the user happy. It's still data.

But, more importantly, it just hit on an issue entirely apart from coding. People can just speak their minds. Which is what we're all doing.

On the last part, I don't exactly mean users and I don't exactly mean coders. And maybe 'against' and 'powers that be' aren't the way that put it. I just mean that any 'community' runs the risk of becoming a 'herd' (Ooh. Totally unintended GNU pun there.) I just don't favor a 'community orthodoxy' of any kind where there's a concept of 'dissident' and 'outcast' and all the socio-political-religious crap. So the dude doesn't like Linux editors? Everybody's entitled to their opinions. I prefer the 'Well, I like 'em' mode of disagreement to the 'there's something wrong with either your opinion or behavior' mode of disagreement. But that's just yet another opinion.
 
Old 01-21-2004, 12:27 PM   #71
jknacnud
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Utah
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Posts: 5

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digiot, now that we have both been able to elaborate I think we understand each other much better. Thanks for the replies. I hope this has been helpful to others as well.

Best regards,
 
Old 01-22-2004, 01:19 AM   #72
slakmagik
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Registered: Feb 2003
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Yep - I appreciate your posts.
 
Old 02-18-2004, 04:52 PM   #73
GregLee
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I haven't noticed any mention of the Liquid Bytes AWF system (Adaptive Website Technology), which perhaps deserves mention. It's free, and it includes a wysiwyg web page editor. You start with an example web site, with login facility, a user forum, news area, and so on, and use the editor to adapt it to your needs. You're up in business right away. It's at http://www.liquidbytes.net/, and there is a user forum at http://www.awfers.org/ . The latter has a section for members to show off their AWF websites, and a few of them look pretty spiffy.
 
  


 


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