*BSDThis forum is for the discussion of all BSD variants.
FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc.
Notices
Welcome to LinuxQuestions.org, a friendly and active Linux Community.
You are currently viewing LQ as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, receive our newsletter, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many other special features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today!
Note that registered members see fewer ads, and ContentLink is completely disabled once you log in.
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you need to reset your password, click here.
Having a problem logging in? Please visit this page to clear all LQ-related cookies.
Get a virtual cloud desktop with the Linux distro that you want in less than five minutes with Shells! With over 10 pre-installed distros to choose from, the worry-free installation life is here! Whether you are a digital nomad or just looking for flexibility, Shells can put your Linux machine on the device that you want to use.
Exclusive for LQ members, get up to 45% off per month. Click here for more info.
IMO, the PC-BSD project is a compromise variant, intended to attract
new customers. It is the same old FreeBSD wrapped in a nice GUI + PBI.
I think it's meant to add more popularity to FreeBSD, which is less
popular than Linux distributions.
As for me, I wouldn't like BSD be more popular like Linux. FreeBSD is better than Linux distros and I hope it will always
be like that.
>FreeBSD is better than Linux distros and I hope it will always be like that.
What's better? I'm using FreeBSD and Slackware - Slackware since the early 90s, FreeBSD since 5.0 because of quality. I don't have any penalties while using the Slack and I'm really sick of this fanboyism. I don't like any single Linux distro, but at least Slack and to some degree Gentoo. Vice versa PCBSD is in my opinion redundant, especially PBI. So what? Who cares? It's open source, if you want to compete do it with facts not fiction.
>FreeBSD is better than Linux distros and I hope it will always be like that.
What's better? I'm using FreeBSD and Slackware - Slackware since the early 90s, FreeBSD since 5.0 because of quality. I don't have any penalties while using the Slack and I'm really sick of this fanboyism. I don't like any single Linux distro, but at least Slack and to some degree Gentoo. Vice versa PCBSD is in my opinion redundant, especially PBI. So what? Who cares? It's open source, if you want to compete do it with facts not fiction.
Well, I think "better" arguments are usually pretty silly.
I happen to really like the PBI system - it's a nice take on the pre-compiled packages that Debian uses (and Redhat et al copied).
I happen to like the interface of BSD better, but that's because I have a really long background with the actual classical Unix systems (System V, IRIX, AIX, BSD, etc) so I am more likely to type ps aux than ps -ef.
The only really significant differences, so far as I know are:
1) GPL vs BSD licenses
2) Top-down Unix vs bottom-up Linux
I don't think an end user of either system (on a properly configured box) would ever really be aware of it. KDE is KDE, Gnome is Gnome, WindowMaker is WindowMaker.
Last edited by MBybee; 12-17-2009 at 04:59 PM.
Reason: I always misspell WindowMaker :D
My point being - this is not the basis for a system comparison.
You need to compare on the architecture of the system, the stability of the kernel, the accessibility of the support, and the range of systems supported.
If we're simply going by the beauty and elegance of some utilities and tools, AIX and VMS are lightyears ahead of any free project... deservedly so.
Last edited by MBybee; 12-18-2009 at 09:21 AM.
Reason: specified /etc/fstab
Facts! Those are no facts. Top and FreeBSD kernel config. So what? DO you want to see some Irix or Solaris? Most driver options in Linux are in kernel config, in FreeBSD most driver options are hidden in sysctl's for example. Do you know any sysctl? Even most of the developers just know a bunch of those. It's a mess, especially if you have to cope with a problem. How many drivers got FreeBSD compared to Linux? So Linux kernel config is a mess, missing most of the drivers and technologies of Linux it's no miracle to see FreeBSD shine in this area.
Advantages would be:
1. lots of manpages and actually readable ones
2. developed as a whole system
I didn't mention stability, because stability depends on the hardware context. If you have got better support for your hardware, especially for some quirks FreeBSD isn't top, it's Linux that shines in this area.
FreeBSD has got more and better development cycles in contrast to Linux, that's a fact. But again this is no miracle, with only a "few" testers you have to do it that way. With 1000 times more testers you can do it the messy way like Linux.
But Linux is a massive showstopper if it comes to documentation or continuity (especially in terms of how to configure it from release to release).
I like *BSD, but it's more a matter of personal bias, because it's from release to release familiar terrain. Vice versa Volkerding achieves similar qualities with Slackware.
I compared FreeBSD to Linux distros, not other UNIX flavours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_H
1. lots of manpages and actually readable ones
2. developed as a whole system
These I forgot to mention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_H
I like *BSD, but it's more a matter of personal bias, because it's from release to release familiar terrain. Vice versa Volkerding achieves similar qualities with Slackware.
This is my favourite Linux distribution.
It is designed like FreeBSD, to be simple.
I have been running FreeBSD for more than 2 years (started with 6.0-RELEASE).
One cannot call me a fanboy, because I do all my day-to-day
work on my FreeBSD box.
And I got used to it. Now I find Linux distributions awkward and strange.
Tried a few times OpenSolaris, but I found it mysterious and
gave up the idea of learning it.
My point being - this is not the basis for a system comparison.
You need to compare on the architecture of the system, the stability of the kernel, the accessibility of the support, and the range of systems supported.
If we're simply going by the beauty and elegance of some utilities and tools, AIX and VMS are lightyears ahead of any free project... deservedly so.
Its funny that you mentioned smit. I am actually looking at using java to build a smit clone for linux. That is one tool that I feel is really missing from linux. It makes AIX administration so much easier for certain tasks.
Its funny that you mentioned smit. I am actually looking at using java to build a smit clone for linux. That is one tool that I feel is really missing from linux. It makes AIX administration so much easier for certain tasks.
Good plan - not sure I'd care for it in Java, per se... but yes. I have often wished that other Unix systems (and clones, like Linux) had smit. Especially that 'show command' bit that makes it easy to automate complex or weird menu paths.
Also - comparing based on a few specific generic tools is every bit as silly as comparing Unix systems. Linux is, like it or not, much more deeply entrenched in the big company mindsets. It's the tools like Veritas, Oracle, DB2, SAP, Peoplesoft and such that matter. Not tools like top.
Systems that use BSD in the background like appliances and such are fighting a losing battle for mindshare.
<edit> It's probably worth mentioning that a lot of the 'problems' with Linux come from the pressure applied by companies like IBM pushing their code into Linux... desktop kernels shouldn't really be built the same way as server kernels. </edit>
Last edited by MBybee; 12-21-2009 at 09:08 AM.
Reason: needed to expand my point a bit
sysinstall would be probably the closest thing FreeBSD has to smit, and that's a stretch...or a starting point, depending on how you look at it.
I'd call it a starting point - you might be able to tuck some of it under the 'post install config' section, but I think you'd really just want to start over, but make it feel like sysinstall.
BTW - sysinstall is SO missing from Linux. Every Linux distro seems to have grown some method of replacing it, but usually they just pile tools together until they get there. GParted, User Manager, etc.
I'm a firm believer in "wrap your habits around the OS, not the OS around your habits" (i.e. I learn the "native" OS tools moreso than write my own, unless of course the native tools just aren't up to par), but a system configuration manager (even a simple script) would be nice for Linux/BSD.
Is it going anywhere? Was my experience just unusual? What experiences have you guys had with it?
I just tried it for the first time yesterday. It bombed. I burned the boot-only CD, then performed a network install over the Internet using that disc. The installation seemed to be going well, although it took about 5 hours. When it finished, I had a brain-dead system, unable to load Xorg, and it got caught in an infinite loop with a 640x480 text screen scrolling the same four lines forever. Strange, because the GUI installer looked good and seemed to handle my monitor and video card without problems.
I found a report of an identical experience a couple of months ago on the PCBSD forum, different video card, different monitor, so my experience obviously wasn't a fluke. A seemingly more experienced user suggested booting into single-user mode and editing the Xorg configuration by hand. I can't believe it! As much maligned as Bill Gates is, he never would have suggested that Windows 95 users tweak video drivers by hand in order to get the GUI to come up! I carefully transcribed what I was seeing on my screen with pencil and paper and added my comment to the thread several hours ago, and it has yet to appear while the moderator "approves" my posting. What a joke -- the Ubuntu forums could never operate in this manner.
Face it: PCBSD is going nowhere. Unless they can come up with a Live CD version that lets people prove it out quickly without having to spend half a day, only to face what looks like an insurmountable roadblock to the novice, it won't catch on.
Last edited by Andrew4096; 01-27-2010 at 03:40 PM.
Reason: add URL
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing
Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute
content, let us know.