LinuxQuestions.org
Latest LQ Deal: Linux Power User Bundle
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Other *NIX Forums > *BSD
User Name
Password
*BSD This forum is for the discussion of all BSD variants.
FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 05-06-2017, 02:47 PM   #1
Xeratul
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: UNIX
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 2,357

Rep: Reputation: 211Reputation: 211Reputation: 211
Will BSD keep X11 in the future?


Hello,

X11 is to me really important. I like to have a system that allows to modify and to custom to our needs.

However, if developers change all the time their libraries, it starts to be seriously annoying to work and to use Linux.

Is BSD cleaner and the ultimate solution to run X11/Nix*/Unix?
 
Old 05-06-2017, 03:24 PM   #2
jggimi
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2016
Distribution: None. Just OpenBSD.
Posts: 92

Rep: Reputation: 33
There is no single "BSD" development project. However many people conflate FreeBSD with "BSD" merely because it is the largest of the currently active operating system projects. You might be one of those who assume FreeBSD = BSD.

The four main active development projects -- DragonflyBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD -- are all separate projects with separate staff, seperate goals, separate strategies, and separate direction. These systems have diverged over many decades, though all are based upon one of the releases of original Berkeley Software Distribution, or are forks of each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkel...e_Distribution

Last edited by jggimi; 05-06-2017 at 03:25 PM.
 
Old 05-06-2017, 03:34 PM   #3
Xeratul
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: UNIX
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 2,357

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 211Reputation: 211Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by jggimi View Post
There is no single "BSD" development project. However many people conflate FreeBSD with "BSD" merely because it is the largest of the currently active operating system projects. You might be one of those who assume FreeBSD = BSD.

The four main active development projects -- DragonflyBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD -- are all separate projects with separate staff, seperate goals, separate strategies, and separate direction. These systems have diverged over many decades, though all are based upon one of the releases of original Berkeley Software Distribution, or are forks of each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkel...e_Distribution

BSD meant of course openbsd, freebsd,...
 
Old 05-06-2017, 04:14 PM   #4
jggimi
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2016
Distribution: None. Just OpenBSD.
Posts: 92

Rep: Reputation: 33
Disclaimer: I gathered this information via the Internet, via Google, in about 10 minutes. An experimental Wayland or Weston development noted or available for testing does not mean that the individual project has stated any direction to remove or supplant their X11 software. For more information on strategy or direction, please refer to to the individual projects.

DragonflyBSD
  • Latest release: 4.8.
  • X11: third party (dport or package) X.Org 7.7
  • Other direction:Wayland, experimental
FreeBSD
  • Latest release: 11.0.
  • X11: third party (port or package) X.Org 7.7
  • Other direction:Wayland / Weston, experimental
NetBSD
  • Latest release: 7.1.
  • X11: integrated X.Org or XFree86, or third party (pkgsrc) modular X.Org
  • Other direction:Wayland, experimental
OpenBSD
  • Latest release: 6.1.
  • X11: integrated X.Org 7.7
  • Other direction:Wayland, experimental

Last edited by jggimi; 05-06-2017 at 04:17 PM.
 
Old 05-06-2017, 05:59 PM   #5
Laserbeak
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Manhattan, NYC NY
Distribution: Mac OS X, iOS, Solaris
Posts: 508

Rep: Reputation: 142Reputation: 142
If it doesn't include it on the basic install disc, you can always add it in a package.

In fact, the main Solaris installer disc doesn't come with X11/Gnome. You have to type
Code:
pkg install solaris-desktop
 
Old 05-07-2017, 07:28 AM   #6
jggimi
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2016
Distribution: None. Just OpenBSD.
Posts: 92

Rep: Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserbeak View Post
...you can always add it in a package.
This wasn't the question that was asked, though this was noted in my reply above as "third party." FreeBSD and DragonflyBSD treat X11 as an add-on, OpenBSD integrates it, while NetBSD users have a deployment type which depends primarily on platform architecture.
 
Old 05-08-2017, 06:52 AM   #7
cynwulf
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,967
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004
I don't see X11 disappearing any time soon. Wayland is something designed by X11 developers, but is ultimately freedesktop.org stuff and thus "Linux driven" and dependent on Linux DRM/KMS drivers. It's in early development and while the Red Hats of this world may jump onboard sooner than most, it's not yet a given that it will eventually completely replace X11.

Last edited by cynwulf; 05-08-2017 at 07:17 AM.
 
Old 05-08-2017, 01:11 PM   #8
Xeratul
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: UNIX
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 2,357

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 211Reputation: 211Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I don't see X11 disappearing any time soon. Wayland is something designed by X11 developers, but is ultimately freedesktop.org stuff and thus "Linux driven" and dependent on Linux DRM/KMS drivers. It's in early development and while the Red Hats of this world may jump onboard sooner than most, it's not yet a given that it will eventually completely replace X11.
I hope that you are right...

It would be terrible to start about 20-30 years again development for make again WMs. All X11 applications would be completely waste... 20-30 years of waste of time.
 
Old 05-09-2017, 02:44 AM   #9
cynwulf
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,967
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004
Well like it or not, simpler compositors seem to be lined up to replace the whole X11 kitchen sink and window managers. This is the kind of thing which other platforms had since the 1990s. I don't exactly look forward to it nor dread it, I find myself indifferent. If we get more responsive desktops, cleaner code and better security, it has to be better right?
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-09-2017, 06:23 AM   #10
Xeratul
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: UNIX
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 2,357

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 211Reputation: 211Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Well like it or not, simpler compositors seem to be lined up to replace the whole X11 kitchen sink and window managers. This is the kind of thing which other platforms had since the 1990s. I don't exactly look forward to it nor dread it, I find myself indifferent. If we get more responsive desktops, cleaner code and better security, it has to be better right?
Bigger complex codes that are heavy are the destination which is going Linux. You will have some day no choice, since most distros take modern things / graphical compositor codes.

Soon or later, you will have to move to BSD... you won't have any choice. This is happening already with SYSTEMD.
 
Old 05-09-2017, 07:28 AM   #11
cynwulf
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,967
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004
No, on the contrary, it doesn't come much heavier or complex than X11.

I would say that there's always a choice. Slackware Linux does not use systemd as is the case with some others and Gentoo Linux and Linux From Scratch gives the option to build without it. Red Hat and Debian would seem to be the wrong way to go if you want to avoid systemd.

Linux went maintstream and some people don't like the result. gnome, KDE, et al and all the underlying automagic, messagebus and *kit stuff has existed for years, but there were few complaints or references to "UNIX philosophy" from end users. It's all inevitable really while you have much of these projects being corporate funded/controlled, rather than in the hands of hobbyists/academics.

Last edited by cynwulf; 05-09-2017 at 07:29 AM.
 
Old 05-09-2017, 02:21 PM   #12
Xeratul
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: UNIX
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 2,357

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 211Reputation: 211Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
No, on the contrary, it doesn't come much heavier or complex than X11.

I would say that there's always a choice. Slackware Linux does not use systemd as is the case with some others and Gentoo Linux and Linux From Scratch gives the option to build without it. Red Hat and Debian would seem to be the wrong way to go if you want to avoid systemd.

Linux went maintstream and some people don't like the result. gnome, KDE, et al and all the underlying automagic, messagebus and *kit stuff has existed for years, but there were few complaints or references to "UNIX philosophy" from end users. It's all inevitable really while you have much of these projects being corporate funded/controlled, rather than in the hands of hobbyists/academics.
LINUX is made for everyone.

People who come from MS Windows, willing for change, will install KDE or GNOME.
People who do some research will install TWM, CTWM, GNUPLOT, and LATEX/XETEX/ whatever TEX and their bibtex, for serious stuffs.
People, who are learning programming will install Java, Python, Mono,... believing that C/C++ is a loss of time.
and people, who are responsible of famous Linux distributions, will bring Systemd, Pulseaudio, heavy libraries, and remove for fun, all the working part of Linux for modern unstable, most unwanted, programmes.

Life of Linux, Everything's possible

Last edited by Xeratul; 05-09-2017 at 02:22 PM.
 
Old 05-10-2017, 03:14 AM   #13
cynwulf
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,967
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeratul View Post
People who come from MS Windows, willing for change, will install KDE or GNOME.
Maybe, not sure what your point is...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeratul View Post
People who do some research will install TWM, CTWM, GNUPLOT, and LATEX/XETEX/ whatever TEX and their bibtex, for serious stuffs.
It's more likely that people will install whatever they want to install.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeratul View Post
People, who are learning programming will install Java, Python, Mono,... believing that C/C++ is a loss of time.
Disclaimer I am not a programmer, the days when I dabbled in C are long gone (the MS-DOS days):

The language you learn and use depends on what you want to do. e.g. if you want to hack device drivers, then you need to learn C. But if you're writing some other application, then other languages and toolkits are what you want. Ideally you want to be linking to exiting code, rather than reinventing the wheel. This is how modular systems are put together and how the free software eco system "works".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeratul View Post
and people, who are responsible of famous Linux distributions, will bring Systemd, Pulseaudio, heavy libraries, and remove for fun, all the working part of Linux for modern unstable, most unwanted, programmes.
You perhaps misunderstand what "Linux distributions" are. If you are not one of the developers, involved in the project or donating money, then you don't have a say. If you don't like what a distribution is doing, you don't use it.
 
Old 05-10-2017, 11:00 PM   #14
orbea
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2015
Distribution: Slackware64-current
Posts: 665

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
You perhaps misunderstand what "Linux distributions" are. If you are not one of the developers, involved in the project or donating money, then you don't have a say. If you don't like what a distribution is doing, you don't use it.
I just want to point this out as the entirely backwards thinking that plagues certain controversial software projects. A distro and the software that its composed of is nothing without its community, if there are no users then there will likewise be no one reporting issues, solving them or otherwise maintaining it.
 
Old 05-11-2017, 09:41 AM   #15
cynwulf
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,967
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004Reputation: 1004
I think all projects welcome users and bug reports - that's a given. But software development projects are generally not democracies (or anarchy) where anyone can suggest anything (and then let someone else do all the work implementing that).

Your Linux distribution, Slackware, for example is a benevolent dictatorship. You get to use Patrick Volkerding's personal Linux distro, designed according to PV's personal tastes - for free. Slackware is entirely financed by sales, via the Slackware store or any donations. You can buy merchandise or not and you can use it freely. What you don't really have is a say. You can suggest something, it might be considered, but when all is said and done - the man decides.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[SOLVED] /usr/bin/X11/X11/....... 10 X11 subsets & counting walter74 Linux - General 2 06-07-2015 12:36 AM
LXer: What the future holds for PC-BSD LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 02-07-2013 05:51 PM
Future of Linux, Future of BSD ? tarballed Linux - General 28 01-01-2012 04:04 PM
PC BSD, Open BSD, or Free BSD ? Alexvader *BSD 5 02-08-2010 12:40 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Other *NIX Forums > *BSD

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration