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Old 10-05-2015, 06:35 AM   #16
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
There is nothing wrong with them. GUIs are good for some tasks, even required. CLI is better for other tasks. The problem is when some people believe very simple tasks that are easily and quickly done with CLI must be replaced with pretty GUIs.
I can't see how offering an additional option for package management qualifies as replacement now for the existing options.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 07:11 AM   #17
Randicus Draco Albus
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As stated in that quote, the problem is when development is driven by people who believe GUIs must replace CLI for everything from the installer to package management to system configuration, because a GUI is (supposedly) easier for newbies to use for all tasks. Look at what that mentality has done to Linux.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 07:25 AM   #18
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Well that's not really a danger in FreeBSD and this example was just a port, not something going into base (not even the X server is in the base system in FreeBSD).

Linux is driven by corporations and big distributions. So it's understandable that there is more of this kind of thing. Much of it comes from Linux distributions like ubuntu, opensuse or fedora where the goal is to create a "works out of the box" desktop OS. FreeBSD is not at all desktop focused, which is why it boots to a CLI only (with ASCII art bootloader being about as "graphical" as it gets) and is not really configured "out of the box".
 
Old 10-05-2015, 08:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
As stated in that quote, the problem is when development is driven by people who believe GUIs must replace CLI for everything from the installer to package management to system configuration, because a GUI is (supposedly) easier for newbies to use for all tasks. Look at what that mentality has done to Linux.
And again I see that "replace". Why is an alternative GUI installer, package manager, GUI whatever automatically meant as replacement in your eyes, instead of just seeing it as giving more choice to the user?
 
Old 10-05-2015, 10:00 AM   #20
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I'm not going to bother to respond to the administration and other comments because they are irrelevant. The topic was/is "gui package management".

GUI's are a tool.

CLI's are a tool.

I find neither to be "good" or "bad" just things that have functions and both are better at times, depending on what I am doing.

In CA Client Automation I prefer to push packages via CLI...

Quote:
dmsweep deploy /ipf computerlist /t tcredfile /pn packageNum /pparams sserver,"pkgCliDirectives"
And I just sent software 10,000 computers.

But, when I am changing permissions in the remote control system, or granting someone developer access, I prefer the GUI where I can quickly work my way through several dozen checkboxes. Which beats the hell out of figuring out the bit-masking for the CLI.

Last edited by Luridis; 10-05-2015 at 10:01 AM.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 10:20 AM   #21
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luridis View Post
GUI's are a tool.

CLI's are a tool.

I find neither to be "good" or "bad" just things that have functions and both are better at times, depending on what I am doing.
Agreed.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 10:39 AM   #22
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If one day on installing FreeBSD I see that pkgng is finished and that I must bootstrap "prettypkg-gui", install X, tons of dependencies, such as policykit and can then, and only then, install packages - I'll worry. Until then I don't think there's much to worry about.

In terms of "next generation" package managers (I'm talking CLI based), most of the *BSDs have moved to either pkgng or pkgsrc/pkgin. I think DragonFly originally switched to pkgsrc, but then switched to pkgng. So I only know of NetBSD project using pkgsrc (which is a NetBSD project anyway) at the moment (?).

OpenBSD has retained it's implementation of the (so called 'legacy' tools) for managing binary packages (pkg_add, pkg_remove, pkg_info, etc).

Last edited by cynwulf; 10-05-2015 at 10:44 AM.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 10:54 AM   #23
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luridis View Post
I'm not going to bother to respond to the administration and other comments because they are irrelevant. The topic was/is "gui package management".
Package management is administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luridis View Post
In CA Client Automation I prefer to push packages via CLI...
And how is your choice of some proprietary software relevant to the thread exactly...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luridis View Post
But, when I am changing permissions in the remote control system, or granting someone developer access, I prefer the GUI where I can quickly work my way through several dozen checkboxes. Which beats the hell out of figuring out the bit-masking for the CLI.
So you seek to define the topic as GUI package management, even when you're not the OP of the thread and then proceed to post about how you prefer to use the GUI to change permissions?

If you'd read the OP instead of skimming and jumping in with a comment about smartphones and tablets, you'd have realised that the thread was about a GUI package management tool for FreeBSD, not some "all GUIs are shit, real hackers use the CLI" crap.

Also do you run FreeBSD on a tablet or smartphone - or anything in fact?

Last edited by cynwulf; 10-05-2015 at 11:00 AM.
 
2 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-05-2015, 11:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Also do you run FreeBSD on a tablet or smartphone - or anything in fact?
Most people that comment about the various BSD flavors, do not in fact use a BSD.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 11:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Package management is administration.


And how is your choice of some proprietary software relevant to the thread exactly...?


So you seek to define the topic as GUI package management, even when you're not the OP of the thread and then proceed to post about how you prefer to use the GUI to change permissions?

If you'd read the OP instead of skimming and jumping in with a comment about smartphones and tablets, you'd have realised that the thread was about a GUI package management tool for FreeBSD, not some "all GUIs are shit, real hackers use the CLI" crap.

Also do you run FreeBSD on a tablet or smartphone - or anything in fact?
I guess what you're saying is that "I don't belong here because I don't see things the way you do." Sure thing... I'll butt-out then. You must do a wonderful job at driving people away from your "sacred" BSD, keep up the good work. Meanwhile, I'll find a less hostile community.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 11:27 AM   #26
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luridis View Post
I guess what you're saying is that "I don't belong here because I don't see things the way you do." Sure thing... I'll butt-out then. You must do a wonderful job at driving people away from your "sacred" BSD, keep up the good work. Meanwhile, I'll find a less hostile community.
No, that's what you want to believe according to your own preconceived ideas.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 11:37 AM   #27
Luridis
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Seems to work for you...
 
Old 10-05-2015, 02:53 PM   #28
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If you're going to resort to petty sniping, I will not get into that. I made no assumptions about you, I simply responded to the points in your posts - to which you took exception and announced your intention to leave and posted a parting shot about me driving people away from "BSD". Whereas you avoided the issues you felt that you didn't need to respond to and cherry picked only that which suits your purpose.

You're free to use whatever you want and I' be happy to assist you, if possible, if you decided to use FreeBSD (or any *BSD) in the future and posted your question here. I responded to your points ref GUI package management somehow not being administering a system and system administration being off topic (while posting offtopic yourself in the same post).

I mentioned preconceived ideas, because you seemed to come looking for a 'hostile' environment and a certain culture and believed you found it. You haven't - but if you want to find something along those lines, go to the FreeBSD mailing lists with your wifi issue in the other thread (which I'm not responding to, at least on the same subject as the OP has requested it go back on topic) and express it exactly as you have here.

Last edited by cynwulf; 10-05-2015 at 02:56 PM.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 04:01 PM   #29
Luridis
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My problem is being jumped on as if I am negative when it was not meant that way. Why would I go to the mailing lists? Just so more people can make assumptions that my comments are malicious and grumble at me? Think like the group, act like the group, say only what the group says, and carry the group's torch or you're scum... Yes, I am already familiar with the open source creed.

As for the topic of this thread... Someone made a GUI front end for something in the command line? So what? Just don't use it if you don't want to.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 04:34 PM   #30
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Wasn't going to comment but I can't help but grin. I grin and then gotta post.

It really does not matter on my end whether cli or gui. I break stuff either way.
Dragonfly boots me into "db" mode. Might be a bad burn. Md5sum is OK. Will try a dd usb img file when time permits.
GHostBSD has some kind of exception in me just installing "moc" (music on console) and kills my mate desktop.

I have not started a thread because I was requested to help out on MX-15 alpha so my BSD box is currently on standby.
Which is probably a good thing because I need to step back a little and let the frustrations about my ignorance settle down a bit.

I wish later on to tether my Iphone 5S as a self learner experience later on. For naysayers about some posters not running BSD

Quote:
rokytnji has installed a BSD! The end of the world as we know it.
I do not do things because they are cool or hip. I just wanna learn. @Ludris. It is a forum bro and I try and let negativity felt by me slide off like water on a ducks back. Even when chided. No blood no foul is my outlook. I am real schooled in , "whatever".

I probably should keep my pie hole shut in this thread.
 
  


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