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Old 06-20-2014, 10:26 AM   #16
Tadaen
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I like GNU/Linux and *BSD as it is, I don't see the need to change to accommodate a certain type of user who wants everything served up "working" on a plate.
Then don't use Ubuntu or any of it's derivatives. That is the entire point of linux as I understand it. Freedom of choice. You don't like it, use something else or hack it up to your own preferences. You don't have to use it if you don't want to.
 
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:21 PM   #17
widget
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Originally Posted by Tadaen View Post
Then don't use Ubuntu or any of it's derivatives. That is the entire point of linux as I understand it. Freedom of choice. You don't like it, use something else or hack it up to your own preferences. You don't have to use it if you don't want to.
This is exactly what a lot of people are doing when, in spite of Canonicals best efforts, they actually find out 2 things;

1>Ubuntu and its family members take more tinkering than many, if not most, of the "hard" Linux Distros

2>Many of the cli commands are easy to learn and are faster and easier than doing it in a gui

The main problem with products from Canonical is that they claim to not need the cli. This is actually true but very misleading. The cli is not needed by many users of any Linux distro. This is due to not messing with the default install, not to any automagical invention of Canonical.

Canonical does not, however, provide good gui tools to replace the cli.

The Mandrake Control Center was designed just for that purpose and that was the first "user friendly" Linux distro, long before Canonical was dreamed of. That they stupidly used a wizard as there logo mascot and used the name of a copyrighted syndicated Comic character put the end to that distro although it still exists in Mandriva and Mageia.

So the main feature of Ubuntu is the lie that it is "easy" and the rest of Linux is "hard".

As a long time tester of Ubuntu I finally had to give it up as I could no longer be party to this type of deception.

If you go through the archives of the UFs you will find a lot of really fine members of it have left. These are longer term users, experienced and capible of giving actual help for people with problems. What you have currently there are people with little experienc whose main help can only be to suggest reinstalling, rarely needed, and to express the heart felt sorrow of not being more helpful but just think how bad it would be if you were using some other Linux distro.

Well, one way it would be different is that it might actually be stable.

I know several people that like Unity. Don't understand it but they do and that is fine. Just as it is fine in your case.

I helped test it for a year and a half before it was released. Really looked like it had potential early on but became rather silly, in my opinion, as time went on.

This is not, at all, to say that others should share that opinion. I feel the same way about KDE. Obviously there are a lot of people that don't share that opinion either.

One of the main objections to Unity, by me and many other testers at the time, was the damage done to the Gnome project by Canonical in their quest to have more control and ownership of Gnome code.

Unity was developed to be an extension for Gnome Shell. Canonical was demanding that Gnome include it in the general release of Gnome 3, a Gnome product, with Canonical copyrights. While there was no restriction on Canonical to not include it by default, in their releases, along with Gnome 3 or offering their Unity for any other distro to do that very same thing with the reasonable refusal of Gnome project to not include outside copyrights in their code was met by Canonical gathering up their toys and stomping off home.

Because of that they have struggled into the 3rd window manager for Unity. I have not looked at it for some time now. With 14.04 they have hopefully made it stable on most hardware that has the graphics to support it. It was not in 12.04 which is when it should have been.

This was the result, pure and simple, of Canonical having a temper tantrum because they couldn't get others in the Linux community to dance to their tune on demand.

That sort of demand is very common from Canonical. This is why you see Canonical employees not enjoying, and complaining about it, going to general Linux developer events. They have made themselves as popular as a turd in a punch bowl and they are, of coarse, blaming all others for this and accepting no responcibility. Just like every bully does.

This, to me, is a great shame. I started my Linux adventure with Ubuntu. Now I find that all I can do in relation to them is to discourage its use by new users and recommend other distros as being as user friendly or in many cases more user friendly. And all much more generally friendly to any level of Linux user and, in the long run, easier to use by anyone.

My Dreaded Mother in Law uses Debian 7 with no trouble at all. All she does is a little web browsing and email. She is even smart enough to type in her user name before her password. She can even remember a password for root, all by herself at only 78 years old, if she needs to run update/upgrades or install something she wants.

Was a bit hard to get her to try it but the continual degradation of performance in Windows, she started using that with W98, convinced her to try it out and that was the end of Windows for her.

She has never even seen Ubuntu. All she knows of Linux is that extremely hard Debian.

All that said, I think that if you are happy with Ubuntu and like Unity should use exactly that. Could even be that they will never do anything to abuse your trust of them. I hope that is the case.
 
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:27 PM   #18
widget
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As a reminder, this thread was started by someone that seems to use Ubuntu and a respin of Ubuntu by preference although using several Linux distos.

Most of the replies, which are admittedly not very positive, are posted by people who all have a good bit of experience with Ubuntu and no longer use it or its respins.

Linux is about choice. Can it truly be said that Ubuntu even attempts to live up to that if it is different that the choices it makes for their users?

Most of us think not.
 
Old 06-22-2014, 11:11 AM   #19
turboscrew
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Sorry for my bad English, but what do you mean by "respin"?
I've used many distros starting from RedHat around 1995 (No Fedora back then).

Basically I use mostly Mint, and Debian.
Ubuntu is used in my "playground machine" which I use for learning and trying out this and that,
because most "less common" stuff for Linux have at least Ubuntu package.

I consider Mint as "stable ubuntu" without Unity.
 
Old 06-22-2014, 12:33 PM   #20
Dave Lerner
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Originally Posted by turboscrew View Post
Sorry for my bad English, but what do you mean by "respin"?
I think that "respin of Ubuntu" refers to a distribution based on Ubuntu, in this case, Mint.

Last edited by Dave Lerner; 06-22-2014 at 12:35 PM.
 
Old 06-22-2014, 03:18 PM   #21
widget
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I think that "respin of Ubuntu" refers to a distribution based on Ubuntu, in this case, Mint.
Yes. Exactly that.

Respins are interesting. Some are pretty good. Most are just "vanity" releases to show off how someone thinks things should be configured.

Never used Linux Mint but I have used LMDE and they seem to be pretty serious and do a good job. Cinnamon seems well thought out and clean. They are also the main support for the Mate project now.
 
Old 06-25-2014, 03:03 AM   #22
turboscrew
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Should we then speak of Debian respins?
Oh, for get it. The idea was more like "repo inheritance"?

Last edited by turboscrew; 06-25-2014 at 03:08 AM.
 
  


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