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Old 04-10-2008, 07:40 AM   #46
royolsen
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Norway
Distribution: Red Hat Enterprise Linux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armanox View Post
I'm going to have to contradict you and say Ubuntu is terrible for a new Linux User. Why? Because by trying to be simple, it gets in the users way. The best way to learn Linux is by doing it yourself, and learning things on your own, so that you can fix problems as they occur. I know many people that use Ubuntu that are in an utter panic when X11 won't work for whatever reason, couldn't tell you what the root user is, and couldn't use vim, emacs, or nano if they're life depeneded on it.
Why would a new GNU/Linux user, unless particularly interested in technicalities, worry about vim, emacs or broken X11 configurations?

The beauty of open platforms such as GNU/Linux is that it can be adapted to meet any requirement and environment; simplicity, ease of use and leaving technical issues to professionals certainly is one set of requirements valid for a number of environments.

To a lot of people the operating system is something that just is there. They don't worry much about it, they just log in and start their application.

Of course, GNU/Linux is just as easily adapted to a platform for power users, geeks, engineers and developers - such as you and I. Even Ubuntu.

Last edited by royolsen; 04-10-2008 at 07:44 AM.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 09:10 AM   #47
Labman
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Nothern USA
Distribution: Kubuntu 11.10
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''Why would a new GNU/Linux user, unless particularly interested in technicalities, worry about vim, emacs or broken X11 configurations?''

You are right. What many proponents of Linux fail to understand is that only a very limited number of people are interested in ''learning Linux'' if it means hours and hours poring over the ''man pages''.

I think there are plenty of people interested a cheaper alternative to Windows than Macintosh. Look at what is happening with things like the EEE PC, the HP Mini-Note PC, etc. If those come out of the box ready to go, or at least able to configure from the GUI, it could greatly expand the use of Linux.

There is plenty of cheap hardware available now without the MS tax. What the Linux community needs to do now is see to it that there are distributions ready to run when downloaded without a lot of command line tweaking.
 
Old 05-01-2008, 01:34 AM   #48
Bruce Hill
HCL Maintainer
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Tupelo, MS
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 6,926

Rep: Reputation: 124Reputation: 124
Ubuntu is great ... it really soaks up the newbs.
 
Old 05-01-2008, 01:44 PM   #49
jag2000
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Ohio
Distribution: Ubuntu 12.04
Posts: 314
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I think it does a good job for a person trying to dive into the linux world. Lets face it, not everyone wants to spend hours or even days compiling and compiling. most windows users that want to investigate linux expect what windows gives from the get go.
you pop in the CD, hit next a bunch of times . type a username, password, cd key and reboot a billion times.

its nice to see the shock on their face when u put ubuntu 7.10 in their pc. boots up.. click install and 15 MINUTES LATER you are surfing the net while downloading the updates. no drivers to install (well mostly) I am not trying to start a flame war. but most people just dont want to learn new. i have learned just about everything from this site or howtoforge.com's site.
Some people expect to run to a bookstore and buy a book. problem is most of teh books are so outdated that there is an easier way to do things then typing some command in cli. most home users dont want to have to use cli. they expect to click on an icon and it just works.
thats my $.02
 
Old 05-01-2008, 04:59 PM   #50
jglen490
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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: The next brick house on the right.
Distribution: Kubuntu 8.04
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As a relatively new (K)Ubuntu user, but long time Linux fan, I like it a lot. Yes, having a GUI does make life a little easier for those who simply want something "that just works". However, never let it be said that the *buntu distros are less Linux-like because of that. I ALWAYS have a terminal open, whether to do a quick check or install of some known package name, or to do some work in a config file, or look for a running process.

I had my share of problems installing Kubuntu 7.10, mostly because my platform (IBM T20 laptop) is a bit long in the tooth and I have a Broadcom-based wifi card (which works quite well now, thank you!). No hill for a climber. That brings up the best part -- the community. All the *buntus thrive because of a great support community and a great support mechanism from Canonical.

I run Kubuntu, but there is a huge repository of great, as well as obscure, software from which to choose that is available in all the *buntu universe. The package system is bullet-proof, and the distro itself is very stable. I don't tend to jump on the latest upgrade version, but instead I do my homework and see what's good/bad/ugly. I sat on Kubuntu 6.06 LTS for a couple of years after being a late adopter, skipped 7.04 in favor of 7.10, and will now see how 8.04 goes (especially with KDE 4 in the mix) before moving on.

I like Linux, I like *buntu, and I don't use Windows (except for my work environment - no choice - or if my family's computers have problems, sigh). Oh yeah, I even did my taxes via my Kubuntu (TaxAct.com online) system.
 
Old 05-02-2008, 08:03 AM   #51
Lowell1947
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Registered: May 2007
Location: Florida
Distribution: Ubuntu, SuSE10.2, LFS, Ubuntu Server (AMD64), Windows 7, Mac OSX
Posts: 30

Rep: Reputation: 16
Ubuntu is fair. It is easy to install and contains the basics, but I prefer LFS. Once you build it to your own needs and eliminate the bloat then you can really appreciate the power of linux.
 
Old 05-02-2008, 08:46 AM   #52
leeley211
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Angus, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: Ubuntu 8.04
Posts: 18

Rep: Reputation: 1
Thumbs up What do you think of Ubuntu

I have used Redhat, SUSE, Mandrivia, Freespire, and just about every other disto and just keep on coming back to Ubuntu as I find it the to bethe best yet. I have being using Linux since 1992 and loving it.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 10:23 PM   #53
Moshelinux
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Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 5

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For some reason ubuntu (and other Linux Distro's) seems to always as being in that perennial state of "work-in-progress". Even the latest release, there is that missing component, which holds you back from total enjoyment (and put to work). It is the wireless (Dell Vosttro 1400), that printer, or webcam, the CD burner which don't seem to have the correct driver.

I think if one surveys this and ubuntu forum, it is astonishing to read how well meaning users (such as myself) end up spending days on end to get one or another devise to work. There are many users (like myself) who wish t, and use the Linux to run their small business to lower their overhead cost and have spolid system with little risk of viruses, etc. Most often, we don't have neither the time, nor the inclination to learn and master the 1 million Command lines in order to get the damn thing take us from point A to point B.

Unless, more steps are taken to make Linux feel and smell like Apple and Windows, I am afraid many would be convert will stay away from this wonderful OS.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 10:43 PM   #54
Labman
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Nothern USA
Distribution: Kubuntu 11.10
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My feelings exactly. The more I read about Linux, the more convinced I am that many of the users don't feel a driving need to have more people using Linux. They like it the way it is.

What Linux needs is not to be more like Windows and Apple, but to work better. While a secure Windows that didn't crash would be a great OS, Linux could do that and more.
 
Old 05-10-2008, 11:53 PM   #55
fragos
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Registered: May 2004
Location: Fresno CA USA
Distribution: Ubuntu 10.10
Posts: 1,466

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There are always command line ways to do things. That doesn't mean there aren't GUI ways to do the same thing. A good bit of forum help is offered with command line diagnosis and configuration. With Ubuntu, if you use the Synaptic package manger and GUI configuration tools you will rarely need to to turn the command line if ever. before buying new hardware I check if it's well supported. WiFi is an area where some have problems because they purchased equipment with poorly supported hardware. Intel WiFi amongst others works without any configuration. Nvidia graphics works well, ATI can be a problem. My desktop is a hombrew of of many components not frequently used by most people. It all works. Bluetooth did require some command line to get devices paired. The bigest problems many have is taking advice from the wrong people. My laptop is a Dell 1420n that I bought with Ubuntu 7.04 installed. Everything worked. When 7.10 was released I waited for Dell to offer a download of 7.10 and again everything worked. I'm running 8.04 on the desktop for my 1420 I'll wait a little for the Dell download. Just my 2 cents.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 05:52 PM   #56
Moshelinux
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 5

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take a look at this command Line for example:

dpkg -i linux-image-2.6.24-16-xen_2.6.24-16.30zng1_i386.deb

Try to miss one character, one comma, or anything on this line, and you are capoot.

How many windows or Apple users will have the patience or the desire to learn this line, much less have the time to type and retype it until correct entry is made. I guess not many - particularly when you have a deadline to meet in your small business.

In regards to Dell own version of Umuntu. I just bought a brand new Vostro 1400 with Window, primarily for Linux - with Windows as backup for emergency. The wireless does not work. Why is it. Why one had to wait for Dell's own version of ubuntu to get the machine to work. What happens if one wishes to use another distro.?

You see, these are the little things which can balloon to big things, and create an impediment for many users from relying on Linux as their sole OS.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:09 PM   #57
Telemachos
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Registered: May 2007
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 754

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshelinux View Post
take a look at this command Line for example:

dpkg -i linux-image-2.6.24-16-xen_2.6.24-16.30zng1_i386.deb

Try to miss one character, one comma, or anything on this line, and you are capoot.
You do realize that you only need to type
Code:
dpkg -i l<TAB>
and your shell will fill in the rest for you (look, Ma, no typos).
 
Old 05-11-2008, 09:21 PM   #58
fragos
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: Fresno CA USA
Distribution: Ubuntu 10.10
Posts: 1,466

Rep: Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshelinux View Post
take a look at this command Line for example:

dpkg -i linux-image-2.6.24-16-xen_2.6.24-16.30zng1_i386.deb

Try to miss one character, one comma, or anything on this line, and you are capoot.

How many windows or Apple users will have the patience or the desire to learn this line, much less have the time to type and retype it until correct entry is made. I guess not many - particularly when you have a deadline to meet in your small business.

In regards to Dell own version of Umuntu. I just bought a brand new Vostro 1400 with Window, primarily for Linux - with Windows as backup for emergency. The wireless does not work. Why is it. Why one had to wait for Dell's own version of ubuntu to get the machine to work. What happens if one wishes to use another distro.?

You see, these are the little things which can balloon to big things, and create an impediment for many users from relying on Linux as their sole OS.
You have sun things well to point out a Linux complexity that need not be dealt with. The pakage Manager "Synaptic" provides a GUI method that doesn't require typing a complex command. I recommend people learn more about Ubuntu and in fact Debian before continuing to mislead new users.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 11:51 PM   #59
verndog
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Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 107

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I find it interesting how sidetrack people can get. The topic is about Ubuntu in general, and do you like it or not. Not about CLI commands, GUI's, or even other distros.

So with that in mind, I like the new ubuntu 8.04 LTS. I didn't think I would, and in fact I thought I wouldn't like it. Everything works in my computer. It's just been a week of steady use. Maybe in a month or two I will have a different point of view.
 
Old 05-13-2008, 08:33 PM   #60
Moshelinux
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 5

Rep: Reputation: 0
frago,
the central question is easy of use. whether it is ubuntu, Windows, Fedora or any OS for that matter. perhaps you meant to say the two GUI (KDE & GNOME) packages offered with every distro. The synoptics is intended for installation and installations of s/w packages. Not necessarily to execute various commands, or to get some device to work.

The bottom line is, maximum effort should be made to enable new users to be able to install ubuntu (which it is easy) and get it to work for us as quickly as possible, with as least hassle as possible. I do realize that many H/W manufacturers are reluctant to give out the source code of their drivers for competitive reasons. However this issue is siomehow being addressed by the "restrictive Drivers".
This is in my view, the bottleneck which constrains Ubuntu and Linux from being adapted by more people who wish to toss windows out of their Hard Drives

When you read that people have spent "days" on end to get the wireless on their laptop to work, it makes you wonder, do I also wish to spend that much to know every bolt and screw in the operating system in order to get it to serve my purpose?.

I don't wish to be misconstrued. Ubuntu is a wonderful piece of S/W,. All we are trying to provide here, is a hardy constructive criticism, not to shoot it down.
 
  


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