Ubuntu Frustrations...
 

I was running FC3 and upgraded to FC5 and started to have some problems. Decided to check out Ubuntu as I had heard some very good things about it. I am curious if the frutration levels out there are as great as mine are. Very basic functionality has to be installed every single time I want to do something. Even the function to configure and makefiles!!! I read something about users not realizing it is missing. I am uncertain how that's even possible, unless those users neevr install a single package ever.

I'm right at the point of a wipe and re-install of a new distro for the second time in a week. It has taken me 3 days just to get to the point of functionality and I am still having problems.

Just curious if I'm alone out here or if these pains are common with everyone. And if so, why continue with it?

What functionality are you talking about. I've used kubuntu for awhile now and the only thing that did't get set up correctly automatically was the driver for my ati card, and trust me I install lots of packages, both by hand and by using apt. So why don't you post specifically what's happening and let's deal with it one issue at a time.

What is missing...
 

As stated, the ability to ./configure and make wasn't working "out of the box" so I had to go and find the correct files to download.

I went to load RealVNC, which is reporting some missing standard libraries.

The worst part is the "root" user which many installations want to use exists with only limited rights and defaults to an unknown password (if any). I went in and granted rights and set a password (which appears not to have taken correctly, if I use "sudo" it accepts my password not the one for root). This is an issue for installation packages, imho, as root should be the superuser and not me.

These are the ones jumping to me right away. It seems strange to me that such simple functionality is missing or incorrect.

Edit: Removing the flames for now.

- Well, it is, you're missing some basics. - No reason to make Ubuntu bad for that. OK?

Thanks

Also not having a root account set up is a personal preferance. I tend to agree with you that I like a root account, but it isn't broken. All you had to do was run one command: passwd root
then make up a password for it. And you sudo password being different is just because thats the way it was set since there was no root account, and it can be changed iirc in your /etc/sudoers file. If you don't want to run things with sudo just do that and remove sudo altogether. Then you can su to root and run xhost +local:root to be able to open X windows for anything you need to do as root in X while logged on as another user. Where were you getting these programs in the first place that didn't have make and config files? Anything you download that requires them should have them with the download. If they don't thats not ubuntu's fault, that's the package maintainer, and as robbbert previously stated you probably didn't need to compile it anyway.
vnc:
http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org/foru...a1bfaeedbdfd9a
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/archive/...p/t-11839.html

Even given that you're having those issues, I think Ubuntu is by far the easiest to deal with. The GUI is more "intuitive" (which means it appeals to people who want it to be as easy as Windoze) and it's just generally easier (and nicer to look at) than, say, MEPIS or SUSE (IMHO).

I myself had problems discovering what the username was, but there are ways to get that. Like if you've installed OEM, the username that is entered on the boot screen is oem, and then you fill in your password. And if the password is used during the non-graphic part of booting or booting into safe mode, Ubuntu does "get" the password even though it doesn't seem to.

I can't tell you how to change the root username though. I'm still to new to this.

Sorry, this is off-topic...
So you managed to get that right, cautious! :) Please post the solution in your original thread so everyone who's Google'ing for a similar solution would be able to find it!

The choice of root over sudo is a matter of preference.

Ubuntu isn't deficient in some way because the developers had a different preference than you did. Anything you can do with root, you can also do with sudo. For the full low-down, read this: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo

I have to agree, though, that it was dumb to leave out make and all the compile-from-source utilities. Users who don't need it won't know it's there if it is. A little known fact, though--they're on both the Desktop CD and the Alternate CD: will give you everything you need for compiling from source.

The issue isn't that the config or make files aren't working. It's that trying to run ./configure reported that ubuntu was missing the necessary utilities to run ./configure and make and make install...

emacs is missing as well, but I expect that is probably in one of the installation items as well - I just have to find it. No idea why that isn't part of the standard install.

I'm not going to up an discard ubuntu just yet, but I assumed that a lot of standard linux functionality would be available without having to use the package manager to install them.

Is my issue that I downloaded the desktop version? (or whatever it was called) I don't really want it to be as gui-driven as windoze. I want to be able to get to the command shell and work as myself or as root. I can't even ssh into my own box as a different user (which I assume is either a firewall problem or another missing "feature")

Which is my preference. Will what was posted here get root working as expected?

Should I have performed my original install from the alternate CD? Would that have installed more of what I originally expected to be there?

BTW, this is all very helpful. I have used FC3 and FC5 and RHEL3 for quite a long time now and was anticipating a smoother transition to be able to run what I expect to be able to run.

Then once it is all in place, I want to do a lot of work with wine so I can feel confident enough to just wipe my entire personal system.

Yea I think we're having a bit of a misunderstanding as to what it is exactly you are missing, the make and configure files for the programs, or the make program itself. Your stating that you were having to do it for every program made me think you meant the former, because as aysiu said installing build-essential would install make program and you wouldnt have to do that again everytime you wanted to install something. Well, hopefully we are making some progress. What else are you having difficulty with?

You are trying to ssh into this machine from another box? Are you using the -l switch to tell it to use the username that you have on the ubuntu machine? Is sshd running? Do you have openssh-server installed (not sure if thats the right package name for ubuntu, thats the name for it on debian)?

Found the built-in VNC viewer...making progress. Your links got me thinking, AzrielMacKay.

I am used to being a "user" on my own box and installing, moving, etc. files as root. So from a terminal window, I ssh back to the machine itself. I think I resolved that one late last evening, though, now that I think about it. I think there were some packages missing for it as well.

My guess is that these issues are simply ones that I'd run into regardless of my change in distro...

You may have been right in that some of this being do to doing a desktop install. From what I remember ubuntu installed a set list of packages and didn't really ask you for any optional stuff you wanted. So things like openssh-server might not be on there, but the stuff shouldnt be too hard to find. Im not as used to using the gui package managers so I always just do apt-cache search programname to help me find the correct packages that I need to install.

After leaving SuSE I found the sudo thing a bit annoying. I have however gotten used to it and accept it as norm. You don't have to go to the terminal window to do many root tasks. Nautilus has a scripting feature that allows you to open file as root with whatever application is normally used. This includes Nautilus itself and gedit which covers a lot the requirements for root permissions.

Ubuntu only has one installation CD (comparing with 4~5 CDs in FC/Suse). This is part of the reasons why fewer packages are installed by default in Ubuntu. Another reason is that it's so easy to install a new package in Debian based systems.:p Users don't have to deal with dependencies like they have to in a rpm based system. If you know the name of package and have a network connection, "apt-get install xxxxx" will do it for you. I personally prefer Ubuntu way to install packages. In Suse and FC, when the system is installed, so many packages are put in regardless you will need them or not. In Ubuntu, I will pick what I need in my system. As for sudo vs. root, it's a personal preference. If you need root, "sudo passwd root" will do it all.

the root user is not missing from ubuntu.

1) to change the root password from the default random generated one all you have to do is "sudo passwd root" (enter your password, then a new root password and confirm). then su to your heart's content.

or

2) To login as root you need to allow it first:
2a) Ubuntu: there is a setting in one of the menus with the "Allow Root Login" option. (can't remember exactly where)
2b) Kubuntu: you have to edit the following file "/etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc" and change the option of "AllowRootLogin=false" to "AllowRootLogin=true" (it's something like line 246)

@merize

To allow root to login in from GDM/KDM is not a good idea for security reasons. "su" or "sudo" probably is better.

nuxrl

su/sudo does provide some extra security it also gives a false sense of security, well at least on ubuntu's default install. Let say I gain access to your standard user account, local or remote doesn't really matter (which is not all that hard). At that point I can root the box in three moves.

1) /usr/bin/passwd (entering a new password for yourself does not require the current password)
2) /usr/bin/sudo /usr/bin/passwd root (enter the new password and a new root password)
3) /bin/su root (enter new root passwd)

or if you want to be a little more sneaky about it there are other ways to capture the user's password. then sudo yourself a copy of the shadow file to crack at your leisure.

I agree with you and follow the idea myself but I think people feel more secure then they really are. Plus working an a server with sudo is a royal pain in the donkey.

Cheers

That's a binary file. How would you enter a new password there?

If you don't like the quantity of packages with kubuntu you can always just get the dvd instead of the cd.