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Old 07-07-2008, 05:39 AM   #1
1kyle
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Playing Blue Ray DVD's (slight RANT) on ANY LINUX


Hi there

don't you JUST HATE LITIGATION LAWYERS. Why on earth are they trying to stop you playing DVD's you've legally paid for on your computer.

I've got a great full HD 1080p screen (am a Pro photographer so this is also used in my daily job) but can't watch DVD's in this format from a desktop workstation unless I've purchased a special copy of WinDVD / PowerDVD and boot into Windows. (Not sure about Macbooks but I'm sure there's a similar restriction).

Neither can I watch also on a HD laptop equipped with a Blu ray DVD reader / writer unless again I boot into Windows and use a commercial DVD software player.

I can watch in "Regular" DVD mode of course using VLC (Videolan) or Kaffeine (modified version from Pacman).

Here's a reference to the AACS system to hobble your rights.

The AACS 'Digital Rights Management' system in all Blu-Ray discs attempts to stop consumers from exercising fair use rights, including:

Playing purchased Blu-Ray and HD DVD films using Open Source software.

Playing films using standard digital (DVI) or analog (VGA) cables and monitors, which generally do not support HDCP DRM, without a 75% reduction in resolution.

Fast forwarding or skipping advertisements.
Playing imported films, including when local equivalents may be overpriced or not available.

Blu-Ray or HD DVD player applications require their unique player (or 'device') key to play discs. These keys are issued by AACS-LA to approved manufacturers that implement the restrictions above. This player key can decrypt each film's volume key, which in turn can decrypt the film's content to play it.


The really irritating thing about this is that OPEN SOURCE software is not permitted but you CAN use the relevant version of Windows media player or commercial packages like WinDVD / POWERDVD.

I'd suggest that if anybody owns a Gas Station, Supermarket or other essential service they REFUSE TO SERVE any litigation lawyer until this sort of 100% total nonsense is sorted out. After a few days of No gas, No food etc etc I'm sure these problems would all disappear into thin air.

Why on Earth shouldn't I be allowed to play my Blu Ray disc on SUSE (or any other distro) instead of having to boot into Windows especially if I'm travelling and want to play it on a suitably equipped laptop.

(I don't actually for once believe Microsoft was the initator of this --
it's not actually in their interests either).

end of Rant.

Not intended to be too political but if Open Source is going to be discriminated against like this we should take a stand before it is too late.


Cheers

-K

Last edited by 1kyle; 07-07-2008 at 05:43 AM.
 
Old 07-07-2008, 07:20 AM   #2
rkelsen
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I hate to say it, but you'll find that (at least in America) it's illegal to watch any DVDs under Linux, not just Blu-rays. They even have the legislation to prove it: The DMCA.

All of the restrictions you've listed are not new. They tried to do all of that with DVDs back in the late 90's.

History has shown that it won't be long before this stuff is circumvented:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_en...ey_controversy

Relax, there's nothing to worry about...
 
Old 07-07-2008, 08:30 AM   #3
1kyle
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Hi there

Actually even Blu Ray movies stored on DVD media might be on the way out -- Now we are getting true 1080p High Definition TV in the UK by FREESAT (BBC etc) and SKY via SKY Boxes (That's our main Satellite provider). You can save these films on to the machines own internal hard disk.

Then using "Disk Copy" you can copy this to a usb external hard disk -- no DRM or other stuff. A small 350 GB usb pocket sized disk will hold around 100 High definition average length (90 - 100 minutes) quality movies.

The modern compression algorithms (mpeg-4 etc) are pretty good these days and the hardware easily fast enough to de-compress the data "on the fly" so you can watch a movie without having to de-compress the entire file first. That's how you can get so many films on to these disks.

You can also copy these in "Real time" using the HDMI out and a "pass through" via a standard (Blu Ray) DVD player / recorder or even a computer (needs a HDMI video in) to either a blu-ray disc or a hard disk drive where it will play without restriction (all the DRM crud has been removed by satellite recording box).

It's good to see technology is still ahead of the cruddy scumbag Lawyers.

My original point however is still an issue --why should I have to resort to this type of tactic when all I want to do is to be able to play a properly licensed and purchased high quality high definition Blu Ray disc on a Laptop while waiting a few hours in an airport lounge.

Cheers

-K

Last edited by 1kyle; 07-07-2008 at 08:44 AM.
 
Old 07-07-2008, 10:12 AM   #4
jdmcdaniel3
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Exclamation Even Legal BLU-RAY computer setups have playback issues

I have setup a computer to play Blu-Ray movies on my LCD HDTV. It is a dual boot computer running openSUSE 11 and Windows Vista, uses a purchased copy of PowerDVD Ultra 8 in Vista, has HDMI HDCP compliant Video out to a HDMI HDCP compliant video in on the HDTV. Even with a legally purchased BLU-RAY DVD, many titles will not playback without loading ANYDVDHD from Slysoft. I do not copy Blu-Ray movies and don't want to dedicate 30 GB to copy one to a hard drive. I just want to use my PC to playback legal copies, yet it can't be done even with the latest updates loaded (to PowerDVD) unless you can bypass the playback protection included on each Blu-Ray DVD. This computer is a dual boot unit and defaults to openSUSE 11 for normal DVD playback which works like a champ. With companies like Slysoft working to decode each new Blu-Ray DVD, I hope they (AACS-LA) will give up on the constant changing of their playback protection codes as it will only keep legal users from viewing their movies.

Thank You,

Last edited by jdmcdaniel3; 07-07-2008 at 10:50 AM.
 
Old 07-07-2008, 12:16 PM   #5
1kyle
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Hi there.

This is REALLY BAD when you can't even get the DVD to play on VISTA with a paid copy of a LEGAL DVD software player program. Mind you VISTA is a real dog anyway --but that's hardly the point at issue here.

Perhaps the suggestion of withdrawing services to these Litigation Extortioners who think think they are top notch lawyers is not such a bad idea after all or even maybe even an "Albanian Fixer" type of solution could be considered. (Honestly just kidding).

These Lawyers are really just equivalent to the old fashioned "School Playground Bullies" using the Law to hide behind when things get tough.

These people are the first who want to know what you've got on your Ipod and try and hassle perfectly innocent people with all sorts of dubious / bogus legal threats while ensuring that really dangerous terrorists / criminals are free to walk the streets and can't be deported (Human Rights Legislation).

If I've paid perfectly good money for a Movie then I'm entitled to watch it.

If I buy a car I can put whatever gas I like in it (if I can still afford it). Same with other consumer product -- it's up to you how you use them.


I'm not normally a supporter of the EU Commission but there at last is something going through the works.

Unplayable DVD's / CD's etc will be deemed "Unfit for Purpose" and the consumer will be entitled to compensation and a refund.

Knowing the EU commission this is likely to be "Sky in the Pie" but at least the problem has been recognized.

And in spite of this Open Source is still going strong and doing great -- OPEN OFFICE for one, The GIMP for another and of course OPENSUSE itself to say nothing of MySQL, APACHE, and other software which is just as good and robust as anything in the commercial arena.

I think that's my last comment on this topic but I was so IRRITATED by having 4 nice disks and a shiny brand new laptop in Amsterdam Airport and was unable to play the disks while waiting for my plane. (I didn't have any Windows playable DVD software programs installed so booting into Windows wasn't an option for me).

For normal DVD's Kaffeine (using Packman's unhobbled version of the XINE libraries) and Video Lan's video player work 100% effectively so why should I in any case have to boot up Windows to play this stuff.

Cheers

-K

Last edited by 1kyle; 07-07-2008 at 12:25 PM.
 
Old 12-24-2008, 03:11 PM   #6
screwbottle
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Hello to all

You know what I never understand, or maybe I do as it is human nature, possibly greed, to have the latest and greatest, is that we can all vote with our currency instead of bemoaning what is happening. What I mean is that we have the power to put all of these content protectors and their tools out of business by not buying the equipment and software, including anything with DRM attached to it, and hacking it to pieces (breaking it if necessary), and distributing the code. Then using our voting power in challenging all of the laws around the world that are instigated and forced upon us by these companies and lawyers in specific countries that have no real jurisdiction in our countries.

They like to label us as the crooks, pirates etc. but are they not the real criminals, hiding behind capitalism, and professing their now legitimate businesses, selling and profiteering from us, with something that does not allow us to get the full, or any, use from the item, the way we see fit. Again my thoughts, but no-one human being has the right to patent, copyright or claim intellectual property on anything in this world, past, present or in the future. We are the sum of our forefathers knowledge, and our future generations will be the sum of our current knowledge and IMPROVEMENTS. It is very rare to find an all-out invention never thought of before. I don't see our ancestors having patents etc, they shared their knowledge with the rest of mankind, or by observation and trial and error, figured something out, made it or improved on it. So what the sh?? is this we are trying to introduce in the last 100 years. GREEDY INDIVIDUALS using the technologists to create their super wealthy empires, yet give almost nothing back.

So I go back to what I was trying to get to, we have the power to stop buying, and then when no sales are made, they will then have to listen to us the buying public, and give us what we want.

Cheers
Screwbottle
 
Old 12-25-2008, 04:25 AM   #7
lucmove
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Short reply: quit bitching, will ya.

Long reply:

Hey, as a Linux user, I'M WITH YOU, but:

1) You really come across as a fool when you suggest that "anybody who owns a Gas Station, Supermarket or other essential service REFUSE TO SERVE any litigation lawyer etc. yadda yadda."

WHO is ever going to get behind you on this? Only lunatics, of course.

2) None of that DRM crap'n'shit would ever be necessary if people didn't just think nothing of stealing movies, music, games, software and everything that's possible.

Ever heard that "every population elects the government it deserves"? Well, every population has the anti-piracy protection mechanisms it deserves. Before you go out there to badmouth lawyers and the movie industry and God knows who else, you should probably thank Napster, The Pirate Bay and a number of torrent sites for the predicament you've been through. Follow the track BACKWARDS just a couple of minutes and you shall realize that the public (aka "us") have brought that upon ourselves.

Last edited by lucmove; 12-25-2008 at 04:27 AM.
 
Old 12-25-2008, 04:32 AM   #8
sycamorex
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What about blueray on Yellow Dog Linux (Play Station 3) - There's also a standard option to install another operating system (ie. another linux) on PS3
 
Old 12-25-2008, 05:59 AM   #9
NDR008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucmove View Post
Short reply: quit bitching, will ya.

Long reply:

Hey, as a Linux user, I'M WITH YOU, but:

1) You really come across as a fool when you suggest that "anybody who owns a Gas Station, Supermarket or other essential service REFUSE TO SERVE any litigation lawyer etc. yadda yadda."

WHO is ever going to get behind you on this? Only lunatics, of course.

2) None of that DRM crap'n'shit would ever be necessary if people didn't just think nothing of stealing movies, music, games, software and everything that's possible.

Ever heard that "every population elects the government it deserves"? Well, every population has the anti-piracy protection mechanisms it deserves. Before you go out there to badmouth lawyers and the movie industry and God knows who else, you should probably thank Napster, The Pirate Bay and a number of torrent sites for the predicament you've been through. Follow the track BACKWARDS just a couple of minutes and you shall realize that the public (aka "us") have brought that upon ourselves.
a)I am going to guess you or someone close to you is a law related worker.

b)Ease off 1kyle. Yeah sure what he suggests is silly, but I suspect it is an exaggerated way of venting out his anger.

We can see how all this anti-piracy has come about due to wrong in the world. But really suddenly it has become purely industry rights as opposed to consumer rights. Explain to me that guy who owns a genuine vista and powerDVD how do you justify that he has to wait for the latest protection system to be released for each new BluRay Protection System? I see it as totally unacceptable.

And preventing people from using OpenSource software is just purely wrong? It is ensuring that any individuals or organisations that could come up with original reliable software never see the light of day because proprietary closed software is mandatory even to play a DVD you PURCHASED?! I mean seriously? can't you see the wrong in that? It is your property, you bought it, how is it acceptable to be told how to watch the movie?

I do not know, but I think this is very wrong, it is becoming ever less of a free country. And I think this is all counter productive, people get pissed off at industry and resort to piracy purely out of principle that industry is shooting itself in the foot with certain drastic moves.

Also in AU in 1996 not sure if it still is, it was legal to mod a PSX to play imports, because it supported the concept of freedom of choice for consumers and better competition.
 
Old 12-25-2008, 02:40 PM   #10
lucmove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDR008 View Post
a)I am going to guess you or someone close to you is a law related worker.
You sound just like the Linux fanatics who accuse me of being a Microsoft shill whenever I criticize Linux. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Or can I likewise guess that you or someone close to you is involved with piracy and resent the new protection measures?

I have no relation whatsoever with law or the entertainment industry. I just miss the old times. I miss the 80s and early 90s. When I was a kid, we couldn't swap music and movies over the Internet, we had to pay for every piece, but there was an awful lot worth paying for. The entertainment industry thrived and it thrived fairly. They made, we paid. We enjoyed, they got rich. Everybody was happy.

Now everyone wants to get everything for free and look around you. Look at the little and crappy music that is still left. Where are all the bands and movements I saw decades ago? The record companies don't want to invest on new artists anymore. Oh, you don't need no stinkin' record companies thanks to the Internet? Then where is the wave of new brilliant artists making a big name on their own? Never mind Radiohead, they made a big name more than a decade ago, still in the old business model era. They wouldn't sell squat now without that previously acquired clout.

The movie industry goes on, but it's nowhere near like it used to be. We're in the Pixar and blockbuster-only era. Anything else is financial suicide. That financial suicide is going to hit the giants too and it's going to hit harder if they don't protect themselves. I also hate all the problems we have with these protective measures, but they exist because people steal. It's just reality.


Quote:
We can see how all this anti-piracy has come about due to wrong in the world. But really suddenly it has become purely industry rights as opposed to consumer rights.
No, it hasn't. The industry tries to protect the rights of both sides, it's just very hard to achieve with a dastardly third side sabotaging the efforts all the time.


Quote:
Explain to me that guy who owns a genuine vista and powerDVD how do you justify that he has to wait for the latest protection system to be released for each new BluRay Protection System? I see it as totally unacceptable.
Well, HOW exactly do you think the rampant piracy is seen by the people who invest a lot of time on making the content? Acceptable? Try walking in their shoes for five minutes and tell me what it feels like. What do you do for a living? Let me steal a good portion of your work, I want to see if you find it "acceptable".


Quote:
And preventing people from using OpenSource software is just purely wrong? It is ensuring that any individuals or organisations that could come up with original reliable software never see the light of day because proprietary closed software is mandatory even to play a DVD you PURCHASED?! I mean seriously? can't you see the wrong in that? It is your property, you bought it, how is it acceptable to be told how to watch the movie?
Are you really that na´ve or are you just turning a blind eye to the obvious to make your point sound more convincing? This isn't about telling you HOW TO WATCH. This is about preventing people from ripping the material off and distributing it illegally, and also preventing other people from obtaining that material illegally instead of paying for it. If everyone paid for their copy, none of those schemes would be necessary. I agree that the schemes are horrible and hurt some of our rights, but I don't see the entertainment industry as the bad guys in this whole scenario for the very simple reason that I am too attached to reality to appreciate that kind of delusion.


Quote:
I do not know, but I think this is very wrong, it is becoming ever less of a free country. And I think this is all counter productive, people get pissed off at industry and resort to piracy purely out of principle that industry is shooting itself in the foot with certain drastic moves.
Oh, give me a break. "Out of principle..." Browse the torrent sites a little and you'll see lots of comments saying "Great movie!" or "This (not free) game is awesome, thanks for sharing!" People are satisfied with the products, they just don't want to pay. Most of those games and movies can be bought online with a credit card or in whatever X Mart you go to when you need to buy something for your house that you can't steal easily because we still haven't come up with technology for that. Most of those games and movies can be enjoyed on just about any PC or DVD player. But these convenient formats have been stolen so much that now the entertainment industry is doing what it can to protect the BluRay format.

The entertainment industry makes its share of mistakes occasionally, but stop making them seem evil. That won't help anyone at all. We are struggling with a problem that many consumers have created themselves. If anyone is to blame for the current situation, it's not the entertainment industry. It's the people who tend to prefer pirated material.
 
Old 12-28-2008, 08:56 AM   #11
NDR008
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Have you forgotten the days of video tapes and audio tapes, piracy has always been part of the world. And I agree with you, the industry needs to find ways of protecting itself, but not at the cost of consumer rights! This is out of principle. I get pissed off at companies that restrict my freedom in spite of me being a paying customer!

No matter what, preventing the use of opensource software is just wrong! It is like banning a book that is distributed for free!
 
Old 12-28-2008, 12:07 PM   #12
lucmove
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Sharing physical tapes with half a dozen friends one friend at a time is one thing. Sharing an unlimited number of copies of digital files with an incalculable number of strangers from all over the world all at the same time is... around 4,236,718 times the same thing. Incomparable.

And you still don't understand that companies are not "restricting your freedom" any more than you are restricting everyone's freedom by putting locks in your doors or passwords in your computer.
 
Old 12-28-2008, 12:50 PM   #13
NDR008
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No no, if you want to use a house similarity it is more on the lines of - "you can buy this sofa, but only if your living room furniture is made by IKEA"
 
Old 12-28-2008, 01:06 PM   #14
screwbottle
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Hey lucmove, you are like these digital industries that label all (or those with computers and access to the internet) people as thieves and crooks, and I take offense to that. It's these industries from very few countries, that saw an opportunity to "CONTROL" the world financially and digitally, and make us start to pay huge prices for items not worth their value, and lock it up, blaming it all on the global uncontrolled piracy running rampant. What a load of crap, don't be so bloody naive. The entertainment industry, especially the gaming industry is exceeding the motion picture industry in revenue, in the Billions of $ per annum, because they believe they can control the release of the content by digital means. But the world is pulling a "bird" (middle finger in most countries, a sign of derission) at these industries, and are tired of being controlled. FREE CHOICE IS FREE CHOICE, and not by control of one or two countries or corporates in the world.

Hence we are not Linux Fanatics, we are FREE THINKERS, I have choices like all others and use Linux, an apple Mac and a "WINDOWS" PC. Free thinkers like to find things out for themselves, and tweak, and not be dictated to, by an automaton industry, such as the Windows world. And that does not make us pirates, or thieves, or in any way law breakers.

I am not sure of your age, but I was using computer technology before most knew what a computer was, and I was working with hardware and programming software, not like today all nicely compartmentalized, one person does only one part of the IT job etc. You refer to the 80's and 90's, I am old enough to have been mature enough in the 70's and know the value of things. And people had a value, it was called morality and conscience. These same industries now want you to put this away and buy their products, locked up with all types of crap, and then use their power to twist law to label anyone trying to use their product outside of their dictated use, AND PROTECT THEIR RIGHTS, so it's a catch 22. And like mankind is, you rip me off, I will find a way to break it and make it available to all. This is only a phenomena of the entertainment/digital world. You will rarely find this going on in other industries or products. Why is bookshops or book clubs legal, selling and re-distributing new and used books, or libraries and schools re-using books, sometimes given away for free. And what about the comic industry, or second hand car parts, or appliances etc. second hand clothes helping the needy, I can go on.

Don't be a a victim of your world, you have a brain and intelligence, think for yourself and question everything, and understand what these forum people are really trying to say.

Cheers
Screwbottle
 
Old 12-28-2008, 01:29 PM   #15
lucmove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDR008 View Post
No no, if you want to use a house similarity it is more on the lines of - "you can buy this sofa, but only if your living room furniture is made by IKEA"
No, it's not the same. You can't digitally copy your sofa and share it with hundreds of people for the price of one copy (assuming you paid for your copy). You won't see the sofa industry worrying about that anytime soon.
 
  


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