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Old 05-25-2006, 04:58 AM   #61
onjoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreagon
All I can say is Novell nuked a good distro.
Novell bid idea of integrating Libzypp part of the distro wasn't a good one.

I myself don't use yast or anything related to that with installing/updating the distro. I have also disabled the whole zmd-family from running in my system. Using smart and have no problems any more.

Libzypp sould have been left for suse 10.2 , but no. I hope the sles10 has bugs fixed.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 08:27 AM   #62
flounderworks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogar
My comments were not addressed to you, nor did my reply have anything to do with your rant.

I appreciate you weren't directing your comments to me and I'm sorry to have distracted you, but I stand by the response. The "vendors aren't supporting us" argument is cliche. While it is still true in some cases, more and more vendors are viewing Linux as a legit contender and the bulk of the problems being discussed here are not due to vendor apathy. At some point distros have to take responsibility. In fact, in several cases, hardware problems in 10.1 didn't exist in 10.0.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 08:37 AM   #63
flounderworks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragos
I'm more in tune with leandean. There is always startup issues to step over. The install is very new and different. It needs work particularly in the area of performance tuning. I for one can already see that it will be a great improvement over the past. I look forward to experiencing where I'm sure it will all end up. There's a lot that's better than 10.0. Perhaps it's an issue of expectations. I for one look at the unbelievable value and short release schedule and am impressed. I accept the bumps in the road. Each should use the tools that are most comfortable for them.

Generally, I actually agree with you. My major issue is that "updates" shouldn't require you to reconfigure the system to work with multiple pieces of hardware (assuming any level of tinkering can fix everything). Sure, I don't mind spending some time tinkering to get things to work the first time, but I don't really want to repeat the process every 6, 8, or 12 months. Short release schedules are useless if the result is most things get broken. When that happens, there is a major productivity issue. XP was just as bad when it came out, but at least I can throw old Bill a bone and say they were working with a different operating system from win98/DOS.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 09:23 AM   #64
Jeffmrg
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Delivered Prematurely

I agree with just about all the complaints registered in this thread and have experienced most of them in my move to 10.1. It is broken. Like some of the other posters, sure, I can manage most issues via command line, but I'm not particularly happy about having to continually fix recurring problems or new problems that have published fixes. It simply wastes too much time. Here are some particular gripes:

Network Manager: intrusive, no easier than command line based controls. Openvpn configuration dialog is broken--I'll continue to use the command line, thank you.

GTK Styles: reappears in 10.1, but does not fix rendering of gnome based applications. Still broken. Why, then, is it even here?

Software Updater: replaces SuseWatcher. The new updater is seriously broken and not at all intuitive. I've yet to get it to work, although I'm told that patches are available.

Printing: no real change in driver database from 10.0. I had to compile Gutenprint to get my printer working.

General: seems like Novell is attempting to flavorize 10.1 with pieces of its largely gnome-based enterprise software. There are indications Novell is not adequately supporting KDE; it wasn't given much attention in this new version. This is not good news and I expect that this move will drive longtime Suse users to begin exploring other distro alternatives. I already have looked into several. To begin with, I'm 'upgrading' to Suse 10.0 (no typo).
 
Old 05-25-2006, 09:32 AM   #65
Brian Knoblauch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffmrg
General: seems like Novell is attempting to flavorize 10.1 with pieces of its largely gnome-based enterprise software. There are indications Novell is not adequately supporting KDE; it wasn't given much attention in this new version.
Too bad.

While Sun's customized Gnome interface on Solaris is pretty nice (although still a little too XPish), the Gnome interface on SuSE looks quite "childish/Windows XPish" compared to KDE. I always recommend Gnome to home users considering a switch from Windows, but if you're a power user, KDE seems to be more appropriate. I'd really like to see both supported in the future.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 11:32 AM   #66
fragos
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I'm a long time KDE user but decided to give Gnome a chance with 10.1. It is light on capability compared to KDE but seems to have better default actions That I prefer. I find the Gnome icons attractive but found it difficult if not imposable to adjust the selection of icons for file types. I also miss the kmenu editor. Interesting enough Nautilus and Gedit are default for their purposes but Kate and Konqueror are included in the default install. Konqueror is accessed as the super user file manager. Nautilus is nice for most use but there are times when only Konqueror will do. I may return to KDE but not until I fully understand what Gnome can do for me. There may very well be different approaches in Gnome to accomplish some of what I'm accustomed to in KDE. My personality thrives on change and my intellectual curiosity enjoys the learning associated with overcoming issues. That is perhaps why I look on 10.1 with a more positive attitude than some of the other posters. Many people don't deal well with change and are happier if they stay in their comfort zone. I cold turkey changed from Windows to Linux a few years ago. I never was an XP user and find it very frustrating and difficult to use than SuSE. I would never call Gnome XPish. I just call it much better.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 12:19 PM   #67
Cogar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffmrg
General: seems like Novell is attempting to flavorize 10.1 with pieces of its largely gnome-based enterprise software. There are indications Novell is not adequately supporting KDE; it wasn't given much attention in this new version. This is not good news and I expect that this move will drive longtime Suse users to begin exploring other distro alternatives. I already have looked into several. To begin with, I'm 'upgrading' to Suse 10.0 (no typo).
For some reason, this had not occurred to me before, but it does make sense. As more GNOME bits and pieces make it into SUSE, it will start to develop unusual characteristics. As an almost unrelated aside, but relevant to this line of thought, Linspire (another distro I use) also uses both GNOME and KDE components and the way the buttons swap around (the "OK" button on the left one time and on the right another) and other inconsistencies make me wonder what was going on in their minds to make such choices.

Incidentally, I have "upgraded" to "older" operating system versions (including both Linux and Windows) on several occasions myself. It makes sense to use the one that best serves your purposes.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 01:44 PM   #68
minrich
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Sorry to break into your thread, but ...

Does anybody know how the (Open)Suse 10.1 distro is managed? Is there any sort of hierarchy and how does one contact it? I have been monitoring various mail lists, but I am at a loss on how actually contact anyone with respect to my concerns respecting 10.1-GM x86_64.

Specific areas are:

1. zmd + YAST > Software > Online Update, Online Update Setup (does nothing), and Online Update Configuration.

2. Installation Source - inability to add directories and iso images.

3. Software Updater > Configure > Preferences which give me "You do not have permission to edit these preferences". Also some of the proposed updates relate to software that I have not loaded from my DVD. Additionally, I miss the old YAST detailing that used to advise that a proposed update was for security or other reasons. I am also confused why my bind-ip is set to 127.0.0.1 ie my localhost, and my cache-directory is set to /var/cache/zmd/web which doesn't exist. Also trying to update doesn't do anything - it just keeps reappearing on the taskbar with an '!' in an orange circle. It didn't bother me when I loaded 10.1 betas and RC's but this is meant to be 'usable' distro.

4. KGpg - why do I have two orange padlocks on my taskbar (kicker - whatever) it appears that I created one when I used makeSUSEdvd to create my DVD made from RC3 isos delta'ed to GM. The other has two (2) SuSE Package Signing Keys - Email: build@suse.de - one has a creation date of 2000-10-19. Furthermore, when I reboot (I also have 9.3, 10 (boxed) and 10 (with ATI 3D enabled) all x86_64 on different partitions on my laptop), I get a pop-up that asks me if I want to setup yet another gpg (key ?) - even if I try to close it (clicking on the 'X' in the box) it still comes up with a setup window.

5. Online Update Configuration - it makes no difference if I select the 'Registration Code' - when I get to the download.novell site (and enter my username and password, which was confirmed to me by email) I still get blocked by my inability to enter an "Activation Code" obviously this is not the "Validation Number" that can with my email. So I can't complete the registration.

I don't think I am being stupid, but I feel sure that you LQers will set me staight if indeed I am!

Thanks - comments and/or advice welcome.

Cheers
Richard

PS - Careful anyone who posts next will be posting #69.

Last edited by minrich; 05-25-2006 at 01:45 PM.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 11:13 PM   #69
leandean
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1-4: Go to the OpenSuse bugzilla. You'll see all of these bugs in there with interesting tidbits of info from the developers.

5: I had the same problem, called them and received this email today (in part)::

"If you have been experiencing difficulties activating your new SUSE 10.1 product due to an invalid Activation Code, please use the Activation Code provided below to register your product.

Please accept our deepest apologies for the manufacturing error which may have omitted a digit from the Activation Code for your physical kit."
 
Old 05-25-2006, 11:44 PM   #70
minrich
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Thanks leandean - actually having posted here I did come across http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-factory/ which although a slow read does appear to address most of the problems that I have listed above.

Looks like I shall have to ask for an activation # although I have not actually purchased my 10.1 only 6, 9.3 and 10 - hope this doesn't matter.

Cheers
 
Old 05-26-2006, 03:33 AM   #71
Jongi
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My natural curiosity wants to upgrade but this thread is making me think twice.
 
Old 05-26-2006, 05:12 AM   #72
maprx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flounderworks
Point taken but as I said, if SUSE screws it up, it hurts Linux bigtime compared to other distros (even Ubuntu. Ever see Ubuntu on a store shelf?). It is fine for you and I to jump around distros, but if Linux is ever going to be more than a hobby for the few there is going to have to be a straightforward, easy to install and configure Linux distro. Right now that just doesn't exist at a level suitable for the masses and when a major Distro like SUSE screws it up, it DOES reflect on Linux in general whether we feel it is fair or not.

Well, Xandros 4 is in beta ( i am a tester) and xandros 4 has a chance in overtaking some windows people. However, I find linspire with the CNR to be the most friendly. However, their tech support is subpar. they rarely can solve a problem or even understand what is be asked. So with that distro you are paying for cnr and the fact that installation is trouble free. however linspire to me looks ugly, and suse 10.1 looks ugly as well. mepis, fedora and xandros look alot better
 
Old 05-26-2006, 10:08 PM   #73
flounderworks
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Hi maprx:

Despite the fact Linux has been around for about 15 years, we are really at its infancy and the problems we are seeing are to some extent to be expected. SUSE, Red Hat, Xandros, Ubuntu, something else, who knows what will rise to the top. I'm just hoping it will be based on open source and will at least be competitive with Windows.

The frustrating thing is that 10.0 looked like a huge step forward for SUSE and Linux in general. I have spent the last 7 months promoting 10.0 on websaites, in columns and amongst colleagues. Now we have 10.1 and it looks like two steps forward one step back. I think SUSE will get it right in 10.2 (at least I am hoping), but this constant re-inventing of the wheel is really harmful to the effort to promote SUSE and Linux in general.
 
Old 05-26-2006, 10:16 PM   #74
flounderworks
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UPDATE on network printing:

Using a Windows machine, I reconfigured the win workgroup server in the printer (and got the printer IP address). Both these tasks were beyond Linux, or at least beyond me using Linux. With the IP address and previous knoiwledge, I was able to configure SUSE to work with the reconfigured printer.
However, even after reconfiguration, SUSE didn't recognize the printer. I had to enter all the information manually.
 
Old 05-26-2006, 11:24 PM   #75
fragos
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Whenever there are problems with networking between Microsoft and Linux, Linux is blamed. I don't profess that Linux is perfect but Microsoft makes no effort for compatibility with standards. The same standards that everyone else designs to. In fact Microsoft's strategy revolves around doing things differently so other venders aren't an option. The fact that Linux works at all with Microsoft is a result of the Linux community working without any cooperation from Microsoft to make it happen. I wouldn't in this case fault Linux. Instead I'd praise them for taking the effort.
 
  


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