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Old 05-24-2006, 10:53 PM   #1
mr.mike
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Multi-Booting the EASY way.


I just completed another dual boot install, and maybe would like to suggest a few things:

I've tried every way suggested here in the past, and there was always some fly-in-the soup thingy that made me wish I'd done it differently. So, here's what I do now.

1. Download Rescue CD and burn it to CD. (The intructions on site tell you how to do this). this will give you a bootable Linux kernel, but more importantly, it will give you Qt Parted, allowing you to partion for Linux, Win, and more. This loads in RAM, so your HD isn't mounted. Very important.

2. Download GAG ( a very nice free boot manager). Make the boot disc using on-site instructions. This prog will allow you to boot any Operating system from ANY hard drive (ATA) on your box.

3. Now, go to windows, and defrag that HD. This puts your files to the front of the partition and will allow you to shrink it if necessary. (don't ask how I learned this the hard way

4. Now stick that bootable Rescue CD in the drive and re-boot. AS it re-boots, hit <delete> usually, or whatever your manual says, to get in the bios. Search for "boot sequence" and set it to boot CD, HD0, in that order.

5. Rescue CD will load; answer the questions about your keyboard and mouse. No big deal. On the screen it tells you how to run QT_Parted. A very simple and graphical partioning program. Use the help if you need to. No changes will be made till you "commit".

6. You can shrink your existing WIN partion, delete partions, add new ones, based on your needs. I used 8G for NTSF primary, a 1G linux swap (you only need ONE of these for them all), and 3 partitions of 8 G's for linux distros. Don't format these. Let your install do this for you. Slack insists...BTW, I use "logical partions" for all the Linux stuff, even swap. Why? You can have 3 primary, plus 1 extended partition CONTAINING up to 64 logical partitions. Linux doesn't care where it's installed. So, you KNOW your swap is #5 (linux names the first logical as #5, the next as #6, etc. #1 is your XP WIN, naturally. Write this down! Which distro will be on which partition. Windows needs a primary, naturally. You can also set the "type" partition you want. (type 82 for Linux swap, 83 for Linux ext-3, Fat 32, etc.) *** tip here. You may want to add a Fat 32 at the end of your disc and use for your data. That way, both Linux and Windows can access it. Also makes for easier back-ups. Linux can't write to a NTSF, I don't think. But can write to any FAT. DON'T use all your disc if you don't need to. It can save your backside later. 3G will do>

7. If you have Win installed, leave it alone. If you want to re-install, go ahead and use partition #1, XP will find it. Don't allow it to use the whole DISC! Or any distro either.

8. NOW, when you install your distros (all boot up from CD), MAKE SURE TO INSTALL LILO on the root partition, NOT the MBR. Otherwise, WIN won't boot. You may have to hit >BACK> a few times in the install process to get it right. Every distro has it's quirks. Slack plays nice, though. I believe Grub is OK, too, IF you put it in the root partion NOT the MBR and THEN set it to active. LILO does this automatically.

9. The rest is easy. Put in your GAG boot manager and re-boot. Read the instructions. Install it (either to your HD OR a floppy) I like the HD, it's easy to un-install. Add your operating systems that you wrote down (you wrote them down, right?) GAG will pick up every partition that has a bootable operating system and that is set ACTIVE, even a slave drive. XP does this automatically, so does lilo, BUT, I believe grub does not. So, use lilo, right?

10. The fun part now. You give all your OS's a name AND a little icon to boot it with. The good news is that there is no time-out feature when you re-boot. You can get a cup of coffee and not worry the box booted into default boot, like using LILO, GRUB, or Win XP;s boot thingy which overwrites everything. BUT you can add a time-out and passwords, and remove/add OS's at anytime.

You can also UN-INSTALL GAG at anytime and it reverts back to the original XP install (it saves the MBR infor Win wrote). This allows you to dump all those installs amd get back to a WIN only system at anytime. Plus, you can install many more and not mess with WIN at all. I believe GAG can handle 12 or so, OS's. Plus it's prettier than all the rest (although a geek could make lilo look OK), But, if your WERE a geek, you wouldn't be reading this, right??

Have fun. And feel free to e-mail me if you want.

mr. mike (newbie of the first order)
 
Old 05-25-2006, 12:00 AM   #2
cwwilson721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
8. NOW, when you install your distros (all boot up from CD), MAKE SURE TO INSTALL LILO on the root partition, NOT the MBR. Otherwise, WIN won't boot. You may have to hit >BACK> a few times in the install process to get it right. Every distro has it's quirks. Slack plays nice, though. I believe Grub is OK, too, IF you put it in the root partion NOT the MBR and THEN set it to active. LILO does this automatically.
In one word: Bull.

All my multi-boot pc's use lilo in the MBR. You just have to make sure win whatever is installed first. I have never had a problem with this at all.

And adding GAG is not neccesary. lilo does a fine job. Plus, the partitions don't need to be set to 'active' or 'bootable', except win type partitions.

BTW, parted (partition resizer)is already on the Slackware install disks, in /extra.

Last edited by cwwilson721; 05-25-2006 at 12:03 AM.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 03:07 AM   #3
mr.mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwwilson721
In one word: Bull.

All my multi-boot pc's use lilo in the MBR. You just have to make sure win whatever is installed first. I have never had a problem with this at all.

And adding GAG is not neccesary. lilo does a fine job. Plus, the partitions don't need to be set to 'active' or 'bootable', except win type partitions.

BTW, parted (partition resizer)is already on the Slackware install disks, in /extra.



Well, CW, perhaps you didn't read the first few lines of my post....

"This is how *I* do it now"
And it's how I really do it. Yes, I say again, you must not use lilo in the MBR *if* you want to use GAG. Isn't this what the post is all about? Sure, you could use lilo on final approach, and it would pick up the bootable partitions. But will it pick up ones on a different hard drive? And can you roll back to a pure Window install? And can you add/remove other operating systems without touching a config file? With all humility, I think not. This post is to help someone that doesn't know all this and keep him from re-inventing the wheel. (or trying and giving up in disgust at the sheer complexity of it all.)

And what about all my other points about GAG? This post is for newbies, and probably not for a real high stepper like you. I could be wrong about the need for setting all the linux os's to *active*, I'll have to reasearch this some. However, I know that lilo does this on the fly and grub doesn't. Whether it's needed on my system is still not certain, since lilo does it anyway. Maybe I read it wrong and it does it only for Win.........Who cares? This system works for me, long term, and should work for anyone who maybe doesn't have your craftsmanship with Vi. (BTW, that's one operating system that could use some development, huh?)

So, in two words, I think your response is bull sheet But, whatever, I'm not here to argue, just to set the facts straight. With 6 million souls on this planet, everyone should have room for an opinion. Even in Linux.

mm
 
Old 05-25-2006, 03:46 AM   #4
cwwilson721
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It sure isn't EASY

Wow. A bunch of stuff there. OK. You wanted it.

First:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
Well, CW, perhaps you didn't read the first few lines of my post....

"This is how *I* do it now" And it's how I really do it. Yes, I say again, you must not use lilo in the MBR *if* you want to use GAG.
And where did you say that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
8. NOW, when you install your distros (all boot up from CD), MAKE SURE TO INSTALL LILO on the root partition, NOT the MBR. Otherwise, WIN won't boot. You may have to hit >BACK> a few times in the install process to get it right. Every distro has it's quirks. Slack plays nice, though. I believe Grub is OK, too, IF you put it in the root partion NOT the MBR and THEN set it to active. LILO does this automatically.
Not a thing in there that says anything about GAG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
Sure, you could use lilo on final approach, and it would pick up the bootable partitions. But will it pick up ones on a different hard drive?
Yes. If you tell it using 'expert' mode
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
And can you roll back to a pure Window install?
Yes. Set lilo to only boot windows, no prompt. Boot windows, rebuild the MBR. Two steps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
And can you add/remove other operating systems without touching a config file?
Yes. It's a little program called 'liloconfig'
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
With all humility, I think not.
You mean YOU could not. Big difference. (I have read your other threads)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
This post is for newbies, and probably not for a real high stepper like you.
You say it is for 'newbies', yet the first thing you have them do is get apps/cds that they have to get online, download, and burn? I for one, want to use my OS within minutes, not the hours or days that would take.
lilo is included in the standard Slackware install, and newbies everyday use it with no issues. parted is in the /extra directory on the Slackware cds and on the website. Tools that are already there, and that work, and that do not need to be compiled. I would have to say that is a little easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.big
I could be wrong about the need for setting all the linux os's to *active*, I'll have to reasearch this some. However, I know that lilo does this on the fly and grub doesn't.
grub is not installed by default
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.big
Whether it's needed on my system is still not certain, since lilo does it anyway. Maybe I read it wrong and it does it only for Win.........Who cares?
The readers of this thread, the people you are trying to reach/educate, certainly care, for one. GNU/Linux does not require the partition to be marked as active, only Windows needs it for it's bootable partition . It's a Microsoft thing. I could tell you the full reason behind it, but it would'nt serve the needs of this post. The 'Who cares' statement you gave points out the biggest flaw in your post: WRONG INFO IS WRONG INFO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.big
This system works for me, long term, and should work for anyone who maybe doesn't have your craftsmanship with Vi. (BTW, that's one operating system that could use some development, huh?)
vi is an OS? Wow. That's a new one. I always assumed it was a program. As for the difficulty in using it, if you read 'man vi' or 'man vim', you could use it too. Actually, it's a very powerful and precise editor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.big
So, in two words, I think your response is bull sheet But, whatever, I'm not here to argue, just to set the facts straight.
No. Remember, you don't care if your facts are straight or not. NOTHING I wrote was an arguement with you. It was the incorrect information you were giving out as 'facts' the was under scrutiny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.big
With 6 million souls on this planet, everyone should have room for an opinion. Even in Linux.

mm
No problem with opinions. But when they are masquerading as facts, then you have to watch out.

Last edited by cwwilson721; 05-25-2006 at 04:24 AM.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 04:57 AM   #5
mr.mike
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[QUOTE=cwwilson721]Wow. A bunch of stuff there. OK. You wanted it.

Ftelirst:
And where did you say that?Not a thing in there that says anything about GAG.Yes. If you l it using 'expert' modeYes. Set lilo to only boot windows, no prompt. Boot windows, rebuild the MBR. Two steps.Yes. It's a little program called 'liloconfig'Y


First off I said it my first line. The title Multi boot the EASY way. Like thinking long term for someone like me that likes to tinker with OS's, and not with editing files. But ok, do your thing with lilocongif when you want to change something, It may work fine for YOU> But a newbie? Get real.

You "old school" guys give me gas. Kinda reminds me of the lumberjacks that use a broad ax to fell trees. His assistant brought a chain saw, but the mentor wasn't having any. "Tradition" he says. "But what about productivity?, asks the kid.

"Well, says the mentor, we've always had a tradition here and damn the productivity." So, the kid goes to work trimming trees with the chainsaw. Waste of space and time.

SO, CW, what's really eating you? You could have said something like "Sure this works for guys to get going. Only one mistake I see, and it won't effect you any. Try it out and report."

But no, you hammered me over a quick bug fix to attack my credibility. Why? Your way *may* work. But I'd bet it puts more newbies running with tail between legs than those who follow your example. AND..you've read my posts, big deal. I stand by them all the way. You don't agree> fine by me. So yes, I CAN do it your way,and maybe will, but not till I have too. And right now I don't. This way works perfect for who the target audience is, don't you think? AS for Vi, my little poke may have insulted you. I'm sorry for that.
MY FINAL QUESTION AND I SURRENDER, OK? (IF YOU ANSWER IT OF COURSE)

Will my post work as advertised or not? (as written the first time?) I say yes, with experience. What say you?

mm

Last edited by mr.mike; 05-25-2006 at 05:39 AM.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 05:59 AM   #6
cwwilson721
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In your original post, you gave incorrect information. I pointed that out.

Then you got the 'holier than thou' attitude, took it personally, and rather than saying "Oops, my bad" you decided to start asking s.a. questions. So I answered them. One by one.

As for your target audience, you were off the mark. Newbie, you say? How many would know where to get Rescue CD?

As for 'old school', get real. I use Kate to edit. I use GUI tools at every opportunity. I guess if I'm old school...But I DO know how to use the cli. And can/do dance with it.

But your big, glaring, and IMHO, most damaging statement was "Who cares"

I CARE. I always give my info to the best of my abilties. I edit my posts as information becomes available to me, either through my own research, or what others point out in my threads.

I CARE enough to not have a newbie go out and download a cd, burn it, then try to use a totally unfamiliar tool/os to do something that is in Slackware, and is well documented, and WORKS.

99.9% of the people in this forum CARE enough to ask questions, and CARE enough to respond to questions with FACTS, not opinions.

Fact: Rescue CD, if you have the Slackware install CD's, is NOT NECCESARY
Fact: Lilo can be used by itself to boot almost any OS that I know of.
Fact: vi/vim/elvis are NOT os's, and are fine editors for the cli.
Fact: The post is NOT the easy way. It is unneccesarily complicated.

Want to know the easy way to dual boot?

1. Install XP with a partition size that will work for the other os you want to install. (You can tell XP not to use the full disk during the install process). Boot it, and make sure it works.

2. Boot Slackware CD1. Log in as 'root'. Type 'cfdisk' at the command prompt. Make at least a '/' and a 'swap' partition.

3. Type 'setup'

4. When it gets to the 'lilo' area, use 'expert' mode. Go down the list:New Header, Add Windows Partition, Add Linux Partition, Install lilo. Install it to MBR

Easy, right? If it doesn't work, it is because of other issues. Other os's or boot managers have messed up the MBR, virus infections, bad cd/downloads, and other issues.

And it DOES work that way. Every dual boot I have done, it has been that easy.

Your way may work. It is NOT easier than the 4 steps I gave above, and that includes installing XP

And learn the difference between an OS and a program.

And CARE what you write/post.

Last edited by cwwilson721; 05-25-2006 at 06:16 AM.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 09:25 AM   #7
fair_is_fair
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Mr. Mike is talking about multi-booting, not dual booting. Dual booting with lilo or grub installed to MBR is easy.

I've been using Mr.Mike's method with GAG installed to MBR and respective lilos or grubs installed to Root partitions for some time.

This method is extremely easy if you are installing/uninstalling multiple distros. Sure, Grub and Lilo are capable of doing GAG's job but it is a pain if you are changing distros a lot.

Despite some misunderstandings, thanks for the tutorial Mr. Mike.
 
Old 05-25-2006, 01:15 PM   #8
mr.mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fair_is_fair

Despite some misunderstandings, thanks for the tutorial Mr. Mike.



You are welcome and I hope it helps somebody too. I spent a lot of time figuring out how to get it right with easily available tools on the net.

I suppose I saw a bit of red when CW's post said "BULL"

And of course he didn't get the dry humor of calling VI "an operating system needing development" This was a a gentle poke at the editor I'm trying to learn, naturally.

But, I'll be a heck of a lot more careful in the future about posting around here
 
Old 05-26-2006, 11:22 AM   #9
Randux
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by fair_is_fair
Mr. Mike is talking about multi-booting, not dual booting. Dual booting with lilo or grub installed to MBR is easy.

I've been using Mr.Mike's method with GAG installed to MBR and respective lilos or grubs installed to Root partitions for some time.

This method is extremely easy if you are installing/uninstalling multiple distros. Sure, Grub and Lilo are capable of doing GAG's job but it is a pain if you are changing distros a lot.

Despite some misunderstandings, thanks for the tutorial Mr. Mike.
I'm sure the methods the OP wrote about work fine for him, but they are a depature from the Slackware way and unnecessarily complicated, and this is probably what started people wondering, why the need to add complexity? Suggesting that using two boot loaders is simpler than one just isn't realistic.

The default boot loader for Slackware is Lilo. It comes on the Slackware distribution and nobody has any good reason to go fishing for new bootloaders or to start downloading other programs. I also multi boot and change distros a lot, and I can redo Lilo for a new distro in less than 2 minutes. To suggest that managing a multi-boot installation with Lilo is difficult is simply not my experience. In addition, I have a nice 256-color boot graphic, and all this stuff works great. The Slackware contingent is also very much in favor of installing Lilo in the MBR. That's what I do, and again, never had a problem. I didn't invent this; I came in here and asked questions, and I did what the "old school" guys suggested (after all, Slackware is THE ultimate Old School distro!) and it worked just like they said it would.

It's no longer necessary to defrag NTFS partitions before resizing with qtparted (which invokes ntfresize) or ntfresize itself; someone pointed this out to me in a recent thread.

A 1G swap is excessive with today's CPUs and RAM. I would suggest that 256M is much more appropriate unless one just has more disk real estate than one knows what to do with.

I guess the bottom line is that it's not helpful to new users of Slackware to come into the Slackware forum and post a bunch of suggestions that deviate from what Pat has set up and what we've all adopted.

One of the things I like the most about this forum is that people are all willing to answer if we would only ask. There is no shortage of dual-booting and multi-booting information among the Slackware guys. I myself multi boot 5 OSs plus *bloze (LOL CW, notice I didn't call Winbloze an OS) and there is the awesome and infamous Saikee who boots over 100 distros with Grub.
 
Old 05-26-2006, 11:29 AM   #10
Randux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.mike
the dry humor of calling VI "an operating system needing development" This was a a gentle poke at the editor I'm trying to learn, naturally.
Slackware is a little unusual in many good ways, and one of the things you'll notice (if you haven't already) is how many editors Pat packages with the distro. If you don't like Vi (I could never stand to use it) there are a bunch of others. I really like Emacs and it can actually be used as an IDE, but it's a steep (and painful) learning curve. There are some other easier to live with ones like PICO. Check out PACKAGES.TXT on the distribution disc for all the editors packaged with the distro.

If you don't mind building stuff from source code, you can find bluefish on the net. bluefish is pretty nice and has a more *bloze-like UI. I install Emacs on everything I run, but sometimes I like using bluefish.
 
Old 05-27-2006, 10:20 AM   #11
woodbutcher
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Vi -ugly but extremely useful

Vi is a pain in the A$$ compared to modern editors but is still a useful and essential skill to master. All you need is the basics, cursor movement, editing keys, write, save and quit. With these skills no matter what variant of Unix you find yourself on you can edit files. Many servers have been stripped of all fluff and the only editor you will find is Vi.
Greg
 
Old 05-27-2006, 05:13 PM   #12
fair_is_fair
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" I also multi boot and change distros a lot, and I can redo Lilo for a new distro in less than 2 minutes. To suggest that managing a multi-boot installation with Lilo is difficult is simply not my experience. In addition, I have a nice 256-color boot graphic, and all this stuff works great. The Slackware contingent is also very much in favor of installing Lilo in the MBR. That's what I do, and again, never had a problem. I didn't invent this; I came in here and asked questions, and I did what the "old school" guys suggested (after all, Slackware is THE ultimate Old School distro!) and it worked just like they said it would."

I'm happy for you and the "Slackware contingent". What works for you and the contingent may not be someone elses cup of tea.

There is nothing wrong with doing something different and certainly nothing wrong with sharing that information.

If Mr.Mike made a mistake it was starting this thread in the Slackware section.
 
Old 05-28-2006, 05:08 AM   #13
Randux
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The post contained a number of misstatements that could be confusing to newbies and there isn't any reason why people should not feel free to address them.

Last edited by Randux; 05-28-2006 at 05:09 AM.
 
Old 05-28-2006, 09:43 AM   #14
freakyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randux

The default boot loader for Slackware is Lilo.
Wrong! Lilo IS NOT installed by default, you have to choose to install it, the default bootloader is syslinux upon which the installation menu asks if you want to make a boot disk floppy.
Don't be spreading "FUD" like this....thx
 
Old 05-28-2006, 11:42 AM   #15
Randux
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You heard me.
 
  


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