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Old 09-02-2012, 10:29 PM   #16
Mercury305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donito View Post
Can you provide a link to the "stuff" on Redhat's website? I'd like to read it as well. Thank you.
http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-l.../msg03623.html
 
Old 09-02-2012, 11:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury305 View Post
From that rant:
Quote:
2 . ZFS does not support the necessary extended attributes and ACLs to
enable the implementation of SELinux security.
SELinux is not included with Slackware and is very non-trivial to setup, and I haven't heard of anyone actually running it on Slackware. So this is moot.
Quote:
5. Linux already has a (arguably) superior filesystem in the form of
Reiser4
This really shows the age of the post (2006) -- no one in their right mind would recommend that anyone use Reiser4. Even before Hans' legal issues Reiser4 wasn't ready for primetime.
Quote:
10. 64 bit architectures have been around for years, and are in fact
virtually mainstream these days, and yet Sun (having released a 64 bit
version of Java) have yet to release a 64 bit Mozilla plugin for it, to
enable Java Applets on Gecko based browsers.
Obviously there is and has been a 64-bit Java plugin for a long time, and that whole discussion has nothing to do with ZFS. That, and many of the unquoted sections, are paranoid anti-Sun rants (if they hated Sun, I can only imagine what they have to say about Oracle).

That post is largely irrelevant 6 years after its creation and very little of it had to do with the actual merits of the FS. The only valid concern in that article has to do with the license, and obviously if anyone is considering ZFS on Linux they would be aware of the licensing issues (hence the difficulty in setting it up in the first place). And nothing in that post indicated any 'negative effects to your system.'
 
Old 09-02-2012, 11:10 PM   #18
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nvm misunderstanding... sorry

Last edited by Mercury305; 09-02-2012 at 11:20 PM.
 
Old 09-02-2012, 11:22 PM   #19
Mercury305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3slider View Post
From that rant:

SELinux is not included with Slackware and is very non-trivial to setup, and I haven't heard of anyone actually running it on Slackware. So this is moot.

This really shows the age of the post (2006) -- no one in their right mind would recommend that anyone use Reiser4. Even before Hans' legal issues Reiser4 wasn't ready for primetime.

Obviously there is and has been a 64-bit Java plugin for a long time, and that whole discussion has nothing to do with ZFS. That, and many of the unquoted sections, are paranoid anti-Sun rants (if they hated Sun, I can only imagine what they have to say about Oracle).

That post is largely irrelevant 6 years after its creation and very little of it had to do with the actual merits of the FS. The only valid concern in that article has to do with the license, and obviously if anyone is considering ZFS on Linux they would be aware of the licensing issues (hence the difficulty in setting it up in the first place). And nothing in that post indicated any 'negative effects to your system.'
Have you used ZFS on Linux yourself? How would you describe your experience?
 
Old 09-03-2012, 12:57 AM   #20
ReaperX7
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Again, please stay on topic!

I wasn't up for debating the ifs and shoulds of using ZFS...

I was ASKING how you could go about replicating the usage of ZFS with a patched Linux kernel for Slackware, create a working ZFS partition with a Slackware installation on it, and doing this without a Live Disk.

If this topic goes off topic one more time, I will be the one to hit the report button myself. I don't need these petty bullshit arguments about who says what about what the fuck ever. I'm asking technical questions on a subject that's as far from debating the ifs and shoulds as possible, so if you don't have anything to contribute that's useful in any form or fashion, keep your damn mouth shut.

Now back on topic if you have any real answers!
 
Old 09-03-2012, 01:05 AM   #21
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There is a ZFS FUSE implementation, if thats of interest to you, though I haven't tried it personally http://zfs-fuse.net/
 
Old 09-03-2012, 01:18 AM   #22
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I looked into that but it only supports limited size partitions of only a few gigabytes at best, not full native partitions like BtrFS and such.

I'm thinking I may have to approach this from an LFS style angle where I have to basically rebuild the patched kernel and entire operating system from scratch to work on the ZFS partition somehow or maybe use a mounted ZFS partition and unmount /(root) somehow while reinstalling Slackware onto the ZFS partition and then remount my EXT4 /boot partition... which could be possible through chroot, but even then I'm skeptical.

If ZFSOnLinux patch was natively included and creating a ZFS partition on Slackware was supposed it might be much easier, but I'm thinking the Live Disk at this point is somehow a must-have.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 01:35 AM   #23
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I had looked at this earlier. It looks like Merc's link is probably the way to go, which like you said is kind of LFS-like. Build the packages on the host, add them to the package tree, build your installer, format your partition, install the packages to the install session, then run setup making sure to install the packages. I guess an initrd and a seperate /boot partition similar to what I've been reading about RAID and lilo are necessary as well. "Without a LiveCD" is kind of a misnomer because the Slackware install disk is essentially a console based live cd.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 01:46 AM   #24
ReaperX7
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I was kind of afraid that might be the only recourse for now until either ZFSOnLinux is ever finally approved for mainline. I haven't done work on an LFS install in months now. I got 7.1 completed for an install on a VM but I'd hate to rip it apart just to reinvent a wheel.

Oh well, but the good thing is I know which route I'll have to take if I want to get it done.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 02:11 AM   #25
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Well you wouldn't have to go so far as LFS. You just need a Slackware host to build the zfs packages on. Then a local package tree which you can get with Eric's mirror-slackware-current.sh. That script will also generate and installation disk for you which you can mount during installation before you run setup and install those packages into the running installation system if you just add them to the package tree before creating your iso. It's only LFS like in that you need a host and there's kind of a circular dependency issue until you get the packages built. What that link suggests is using a virtualmachine to test the whole process before you try it on bare metal and to build your packages and installer image with. The link Mercury posted makes it look rather straightforward, there's just a little ways to go to get there.

As far as mainline goes, it simply isn't going to happen because the licenses for the linux kernel and the zfs filesystem can't be satisfied at the same time.
Quote:
1.1 What about the licensing issue?

In a nutshell, the issue is that the Linux kernel which is licensed under the GNU General Public License is incompatible with ZFS which is licensed under the Sun CDDL. While both the GPL and CDDL are open source licenses their terms are such that it is impossible to simultaneously satisfy both licenses. This means that a single derived work of the Linux kernel and ZFS cannot be legally distributed.

One way to resolve this issue is to implement ZFS in user space with FUSE where it is not considered a derived work of the kernel. This approach resolves the licensing issues but it has some technical drawbacks. There is another option though. The CDDL does not restrict modification and release of the ZFS source code which is publicly available as part of OpenSolaris. The ZFS code can be modified to build as a CDDL licensed kernel module which is not distributed as part of the Linux kernel. This makes a Native ZFS on Linux implementation possible if you are willing to download and build it yourself.
From here.

Last edited by damgar; 09-03-2012 at 02:12 AM.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 03:51 AM   #26
ReaperX7
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That's a real shame because for over 10 years ZFS has been a premium level file system to which BtrFS has just started getting close to matching, and still has yet to match.

However is the the ZFSonLinux project under a GPL compatible license though?
 
Old 09-03-2012, 04:23 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
However is the the ZFSonLinux project under a GPL compatible license though?
The issue remains, see here. In short: it is legal to download and install it yourself but not to include it in a distributed kernel.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 04:56 AM   #28
ReaperX7
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Shame the Linux kernel has to stick to GPL. Makes me wonder why they stick to such a restrictive license rather than go to a more friendly license like the MIT license.

And Lennart Poeterring claims BSD is behind the times...

Last edited by ReaperX7; 09-03-2012 at 04:58 AM.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 05:03 AM   #29
Didier Spaier
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This request is to be addressed to Mr Linus Torvalds, c/o the Linux Foundation.

However, I wouldn't bet that it will receive a favorable answer.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 09-03-2012 at 05:07 AM.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 05:30 AM   #30
ReaperX7
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Yeah, seriously.
 
  


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