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Old 04-17-2012, 05:25 PM   #136
dugan
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If the Slackware project actually has an existential need to raise money, then wouldn't we see an attempt to raise money?

EDIT: post #14 beat me to it.

Last edited by dugan; 04-17-2012 at 05:40 PM.
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #137
caitlyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
It is inaccurate information to say that Slackware is in such financial difficulties that it's in danger of going the way of Mandriva. That is exactly what you said, and I'm amazed that you already tried to lie your way out.

Your history of handling disagreements this way is exactly the reason I'm not a fan of yours.
First, I'd rather be accurate and tell the truth than have fans. Sometimes the truth hurts. Mandriva is alive 12 years on despite numerous financial difficulties. It seems to me that the situation is analogous to Slackware. If a distro can't afford to maintain it's public face, meaning its website, and has to prioritize it's cash flow so that the site is down for four days and counting with no sign of it coming back up, then I'd say it is very fair to characterize the situation as similar to Mandriva.

I've read Alien Bob's posts here and on DWW again and again. He's right: I've spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. The fear is justified, the uncertainty is real and I most certainly have doubts.

Where did I lie? I haven't. Not once. I'd love to see you show me otherwise. You can't. Circle the wagons around your favorite distro all you like. You are a perfect illustration of what I've described and you've objected to within the community.
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:38 PM   #138
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caitlyn View Post
Where did I lie?
Quote:
I made no such assumption. Please don't put words in my mouth
Right there. And you knew exactly what I was referring to. Good job ignoring everything else that has been pointed out about your own behavior, while dismissing anyone who disagrees with you as a zealot who can safely be ignored.

Last edited by dugan; 04-17-2012 at 07:29 PM.
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:46 PM   #139
leeeoooooo
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I've seen a lot of speculation...

Does anyone *know* why www.slackware.com is down and when it'll be back up?

It's not a site I check everyday, it usually doesn't change much ;-) -- but it does surprise me once every blue moon (or new release).


Last night I fired up Firefox and it complained that this wasn't the latest version, so I ran a slackpkg update again (I swear I did this just two weeks ago). I was hit with a blizzard of install-new packages (mostly kde) and another blizzard of upgrade-all packages. I wanted to check the changelog to see what's up, but the page won't come up (I know I was on there not more than a week or so ago...).

I love that simple-is-beautiful website. Wassup?
 
Old 04-17-2012, 06:51 PM   #140
willysr
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for the time being, use http://slackware.osuosl.org/slackwar.../ChangeLog.txt
 
Old 04-17-2012, 06:54 PM   #141
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeeoooooo View Post
Does anyone *know* why www.slackware.com is down and when it'll be back up?
The only person participating in this thread who does is Alien Bob. He's given some vague hints that some people are jumping on.
 
Old 04-17-2012, 07:09 PM   #142
rworkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post
Yep, it reminds me a little of when there were problems with cardinal.lizella.net. Whilst not an official Slackware owned machine, it provided hosting and other services for many sites associated with the wider Slackware community (e.g. slackbook.org, slackpkg.org, sbopkg.org, rlworkman.net, alienBOB's wiki, etc.).

That time Robby eventually asked for a little help and the response was so good that they actually got enough for an even better server than they had planned, plus a "substantial" amount of money left over to send to PatV as a donation. What this showed me was that when projects are small it doesn't take too much effort to rectify things when funding is an issue, assuming you have plenty of loyal fans.
Yes, and I'm *still* impressed at our userbase from that :-)
For those who've not seen it, have a look at https://harrier.slackbuilds.org/contributors/
 
Old 04-17-2012, 07:12 PM   #143
leeeoooooo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willysr View Post
My favorite mirror! ;-)

I guess that'll have to do for now...

Thanks!
 
Old 04-17-2012, 08:54 PM   #144
caitlyn
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"I made no such assumption. Please don't put words in my mouth "

That was the absolute truth. I made no assumption that Slackware was in any danger of disappearing anytime soon. You're still putting words in my mouth. When you have no argument to make you resort to personal attacks. Nice.

Guys, go for it. Rip me to shreds. Have fun!
 
Old 04-17-2012, 09:11 PM   #145
blue_k
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Caitlyn,

I don't think you should have compared Slackware to Mandriva. They are different. Slackware is not owned or run by a company like Mandriva. Where with Mandriva, if the company is in financial difficulties the distribution is too. Slackware does not have as much trouble with this. It doesn't cost nearly as much money to keep Slackware going has it does Mandriva. The development costs nothing, as Pat and the crew donate there time to work on it for free. Hosting is not that costly, but it appears Slackware.com is being hosted by Pat himself, and unfortunately the server broke. I think the solution to get Slackware.com running would be just to get a cheap hosting plan, but that's up to Pat and the crew as what to do. And as always, I thank Pat and the crew for everything they do.

Last edited by blue_k; 04-17-2012 at 09:16 PM.
 
Old 04-17-2012, 09:27 PM   #146
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caitlyn View Post
"That was the absolute truth. I made no assumption that Slackware was in any danger of disappearing anytime soon. You're still putting words in my mouth. When you have no argument to make you resort to personal attacks. Nice.
Let's examine that claim:

Quote:
You remember that comment about my involvement in the development of a Slackware derivative? Forget it. We're already discussing about delaying the release and rebasing off of something with a more secure future.
Quote:
I certainly hope Slackware survives.
Quote:
It's a comment about finances and stability.
You absolutely were saying "I think Slackware is in danger of disappearing soon."

And people with no arguments making personal attacks? You mean like this bit of petulant childishness?

Quote:
Circle the wagons around your favorite distro all you like. You are a perfect illustration of what I've described and you've objected to within the community.
Now, pointing out the way you have conducted yourself is not fallacious because I have not said "you're wrong because you conducted yourself that way." You have had multiple opportunities to dispute the accuracy of my other very specific observations on how you've chosen to communicate. However, you haven't done so; you've only objected that I made them at all. A more mature writer than you would have taken them not as personal attacks, but as constructive criticism.

Last edited by dugan; 04-18-2012 at 04:10 PM.
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:32 PM   #147
lotec25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caitlyn View Post
"I made no such assumption. Please don't put words in my mouth "

That was the absolute truth. I made no assumption that Slackware was in any danger of disappearing anytime soon. You're still putting words in my mouth. When you have no argument to make you resort to personal attacks. Nice.

Guys, go for it. Rip me to shreds. Have fun!
I have yet to see anyone personaly attack you, but you keep saying they are. Have you not had your name out there enough? Tell us what site you want your name on, and we can email them for you. Also after seeing your writing on here and on DW. I will make sure to point these post out, when someone inquires about one of your wounder books that you write for O'rilley. It seams you just take info and twist it to your liking. This also seams to be personal for you, as you keep refering to how much you dislike slackware, and you seam so concerned about it surviving. If you were a professional linux person, I would think you would be more inclined to help.

Last edited by lotec25; 04-17-2012 at 09:35 PM.
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:44 PM   #148
dugan
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Tell me something:

It looks to me as if the most obvious way for Pat to raise money is to do another Slackware release. That would result in subscriptions being charged, people buying the DVD upgrades, etc.

So:

If Slackware starts having funding issues, then wouldn't we expect releases to come more often, rather than less?

Last edited by dugan; 04-17-2012 at 11:01 PM.
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:13 PM   #149
NetrixTardis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
The only person participating in this thread who does is Alien Bob. He's given some vague hints that some people are jumping on.
Here is some more vague hints:

Yes, we are aware of the problems with www.slackware.com.
Yes, it will come back up eventually.

When?
when it is ready!
 
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:08 AM   #150
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_k View Post
The development costs nothing, as Pat and the crew donate there time to work on it for free.
Not true. Slackware is a commercial business, and sales from the Store are Pat's only income. It also feeds other people who work at the store. The rest of the "core team" does not get money out of Slackware sales.
Quote:
Hosting is not that costly, but it appears Slackware.com is being hosted by Pat himself, and unfortunately the server broke.
Not true. The servers are all hosted at a hosting company and that costs money for rack space and bandwidth.

Eric
 
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