LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware
User Name
Password
Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

Notices

View Poll Results: When will you switch to Wayland in Slackware?
As soon as it works 6 2.82%
As soon as it's stable 26 12.21%
Not before it is included by the dev team 115 53.99%
No plans to switch 66 30.99%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 07-07-2013, 12:10 AM   #61
Richard Cranium
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Carrollton, Texas
Distribution: Slackware64 14.1
Posts: 1,479

Rep: Reputation: 415Reputation: 415Reputation: 415Reputation: 415Reputation: 415

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartgymnast View Post
People, where did I ever write that it would be more a apple or windows clone?

I wrote about user experience.
If you look at both apple and microsoft desktop machines, user experience is about smoother graphics, faster reactions. easier extendable.

so stop quoting about look-alike or cloning.
See below wiki about User Experience or follow the link to find out more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience

User experience (UX) involves a person's emotions about using a particular product, system or service. User experience highlights the experiential, affective, meaningful and valuable aspects of human-computer interaction and product ownership. Additionally, it includes a person’s perceptions of the practical aspects such as utility, ease of use and efficiency of the system. User experience is subjective in nature because it is about individual perception and thought with respect to the system. User experience is dynamic as it is constantly modified over time due to changing circumstances and new innovations.

ISO 9241-210[1] defines user experience as "a person's perceptions and responses that result from the use or anticipated use of a product, system or service". According to the ISO definition user experience includes all the users' emotions, beliefs, preferences, perceptions, physical and psychological responses, behaviors and accomplishments that occur before, during and after use. The ISO also list three factors that influence user experience: system, user and the context of use.
Some of us view the windows and mac "user experience" as akin to swimming in a pool of liquid dog feces.
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-07-2013, 12:26 AM   #62
astrogeek
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2008
Distribution: Slackware: 12.1, 13.1, 14.1, 64-14.1, -current, FreeBSD-10
Posts: 1,744

Rep: Reputation: 597Reputation: 597Reputation: 597Reputation: 597Reputation: 597Reputation: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Some of us view the windows and mac "user experience" as akin to swimming in a pool of liquid dog feces.
What he said... +1
 
Old 07-07-2013, 12:49 AM   #63
Skaperen
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2009
Location: WV, USA
Distribution: Slackware, CentOS, Ubuntu, Fedora, Timesys, Linux From Scratch
Posts: 1,777
Blog Entries: 20

Rep: Reputation: 115Reputation: 115
I am willing to try it. If it can work better for managing access to the display for things like virtual machines also running X or Wayland, then I'm all for it. My goal is being able to do "one chord" screen/display switching among MANY (60+) workspaces/desktops and full display processes like VM engines.
 
Old 07-07-2013, 02:01 PM   #64
dive
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 3,203

Rep: Reputation: 292Reputation: 292Reputation: 292
TobiSGD: Thanks for the detailed info.

I would like to know how it would support older games like the original Unreal Tournament (made in 1999), which I still write mods for. I'm guessing that since it uses OpenGL there wouldn't be a problem, but it'd be nice to find out one way or the other.

I vote to switch when Pat/Slackware switches. Also, as some of you may know, I'm a devout fluxboxer so I guess when fluxbox supports it too that'd be optimal for me.
 
Old 07-07-2013, 08:44 PM   #65
lpallard
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Milky Way
Distribution: Slackware (various releases)
Posts: 970

Rep: Reputation: 44
For all I'm concerned, things are still too fragile even after decades of development.. I recently upgraded packages on a machine using the "official" upgrade method, hosed half of it by doing so. Another machine just upgraded after perhaps a year not updating, the nvidia driver started shitting all over the place, I had to install the new version and now I'm stuck with horrible video issues (choppy playback, visual tear, etc). Instead of moving forward, for the time being, I will restore the clone I made about 8 months ago, when things were snappy and working well..

With other distros, if their package manager is smart enough to manage package versions and inter-dependencies, then its just a matter of upgrading/downgrading, and only bandwidth usage, on slackware since everything is very basic and manual, no need for me to toast one of my machines once more...

No im not planning upgrading or moving to wayland...

When Pat decides to move slackware toward wayland, it'll have to be so transparent to me that I wouldnt know.. Well, it'll have to be AS GOOD as X is now.. Otherwise, Im out.

Last edited by lpallard; 07-07-2013 at 08:45 PM.
 
Old 07-07-2013, 11:25 PM   #66
ReaperX7
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2011
Distribution: LFS-SVN, FreeBSD 10.0, CRUX 3.1
Posts: 3,013
Blog Entries: 15

Rep: Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Some of us view the windows and mac "user experience" as akin to swimming in a pool of liquid dog feces.
I wouldn't say that ill of Windows due to the fact I understand it fundamentally. I akin it to swimming in a pool of overly-chlorinated water that tends to burn the eyes a bit and leave you feels a bit dried out afterwards, whereas OSX is like diving into a sewage retention pond filled with whatever the city dumped in it. BSD and Linux is like a natural river and stream in the mountains, though I do suspect something upstream in Linux's river is causing the fish to start to die off.

Wayland should be transparent in transition, as it's supported to support all of the classic X.Org features.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 07-07-2013 at 11:34 PM.
 
Old 07-07-2013, 11:43 PM   #67
ttk
Member
 
Registered: May 2012
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 178
Blog Entries: 13

Rep: Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Wayland should be transparent in transition, as it's supported to support all of the classic X.Org features.
.. except network transparency :-(

http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_8
 
Old 07-08-2013, 06:50 AM   #68
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hanover, Germany
Distribution: Main: Gentoo Others: What fits the task
Posts: 15,530
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttk View Post
Which doesn't even work correctly anymore with X11 in many cases: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...-trancparency/
 
Old 07-08-2013, 07:59 AM   #69
serafean
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Czech Republic
Distribution: Gentoo, Chakra
Posts: 871
Blog Entries: 9

Rep: Reputation: 103Reputation: 103
If any of you has 45 minutes to spare, here is a very nice talk about Wayland by one of its developers (also an X developer). He very nicely explains why Wayland was a necessity. He also explains how the X network transparency is a myth nowadays (*gasp*) and how it might work better with wayland.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-08-2013, 08:55 AM   #70
ttk
Member
 
Registered: May 2012
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 178
Blog Entries: 13

Rep: Reputation: 86
Hmm .. I semi-regularly run graphical apps (firefox, xfig, xpaint) on my desktop from my laptop. X11's network transparency is working fine here.
 
Old 07-08-2013, 09:07 AM   #71
jtsn
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 803

Rep: Reputation: 354Reputation: 354Reputation: 354Reputation: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Which doesn't even work correctly anymore with X11 in many cases: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...-trancparency/
I can see the reason:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Gräßlin
I think the DBus design decisions are good and correct.
I don't have any issues with X11 network transparency. It depends on applications. The crappy ones I don't need and I don't use, that includes KDE.

BTW: RDP mimics X11 the for GDI and is seen as mandatory in the industry. Transferring bitmaps over the network (like VNC does) is a thing from the stone age.

Last edited by jtsn; 07-08-2013 at 09:12 AM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-08-2013, 10:12 AM   #72
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hanover, Germany
Distribution: Main: Gentoo Others: What fits the task
Posts: 15,530
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024Reputation: 4024
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
I can see the reason:

I don't have any issues with X11 network transparency. It depends on applications. The crappy ones I don't need and I don't use, that includes KDE.

BTW: RDP mimics X11 the for GDI and is seen as mandatory in the industry. Transferring bitmaps over the network (like VNC does) is a thing from the stone age.
If you don't only use Motif applications the Xserver acts quite similar to VNC, actually, since no modern toolkit lets the Xserver render their content. You actually have no network transparency, but are already transferring bitmaps. Also explained in the video linked by serafean. Nice watch, by the way, thanks for the link.
 
Old 07-08-2013, 10:10 PM   #73
qweasd
Member
 
Registered: May 2010
Posts: 436

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I managed to build wayland + weston and run it over KMS, with no X present. Also XWayland (X compatibility layer). Saw a few crashes, but the compositing quality is superb. Screenshot here:

http://melikamp.com/pictures/screens...land.png.shtml
 
Old 07-08-2013, 10:16 PM   #74
ReaperX7
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2011
Distribution: LFS-SVN, FreeBSD 10.0, CRUX 3.1
Posts: 3,013
Blog Entries: 15

Rep: Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759Reputation: 759
Qweasd, did you find any specific noticeable differences in how XWayland operates compared to the standard X.Org server such as commands, setup, desktop environment support, etc. other than the Compositing?
 
Old 07-08-2013, 10:32 PM   #75
qweasd
Member
 
Registered: May 2010
Posts: 436

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Can't tell you much, only played with it for a few hours. The setup is zero-like: it just goes into Weston, which listens for X clients, if any. Weston itself is quite Spartan, but very smooth. I am sure I could run whatever in a full-screened xnest, I'll be checking on that. I also want to run some time benchmarks to compare xwayland with plain x.org, but time is something I ain't got a lot of

Last edited by qweasd; 07-08-2013 at 10:34 PM.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Wayland - Beyond X LXer Syndicated Linux News 1 02-14-2012 12:59 PM
Future !X ? Wayland : X - what is wayland? serafean Linux - General 5 03-04-2011 11:09 AM
Iptables + Forwarding + Vlan + OpenVPN & L2 junk switch /L3 extreme networks switch feloniousj Linux - Networking 3 03-15-2010 09:27 PM
thread switch results in kernel stack switch superstition Linux - General 1 05-17-2005 11:48 PM
set up DSL thru SWITCH - winXp connected to SWITCH too husz Linux - Newbie 5 04-22-2004 12:08 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 AM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration