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Old 09-09-2005, 10:38 PM   #1
SlackwareInAZ
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Will 10.1 Current = New 10.2 release ??


Is Slackware a pure rolling distro where an updated 10.1 current system would be equivalent to 10.2 when it's released (ala Arch) ?

Got to thinking after someone posted asking about updating aaa-elflibs in the latest changelog.
I always thought that if I kept updated using the current changelog I would never have to reinstall as a new release came out? If so, shouldn't aaa-elflibs need to be updated as well?

Or asking another way will the Slackware current when 10.2 is released be functionally equivalent to a clean install with 10.2?

Thanks,
Gary
 
Old 09-09-2005, 11:32 PM   #2
carboncopy
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Yuh, I do wonder the same thing. That if aaa-elflibs is not upgraded, how can tracking current be really current?

So, I went to get the description of aaa-elflibs http://slackware.it/en/pb/showdesc.p...-10.2.0-i486-1
Quote:
aaa_elflibs (shared libraries needed by many programs)

This is a collection of shared libraries needed to run Linux programs.
ELF (Executable and Linking Format) is the standard Linux binary
format. These libraries are gathered from other Slackware packages
and are intended to give a fairly complete initial set of libraries.
This package should be not upgraded or reinstalled (it could copy
over newer library versions).
However, my 2cents worth is; since the current have reach an (almost) Release Candidate stage, it would be (relatively) 'safe' (or trouble free) to upgrade it. Saying that, I don't think you should take the risk to upgrade it on your production machines. I would advice it on a pure testing machines.

As at this point (and a month or to go) I have a machine purely for setting up and testing. So, I'll go ahead and install it and report the results.

As of now, it is current as current can be. In addition to being current, it has sel-compiled gcc4.0.1 and 2.6.13 kernel. Other then that everything is pretty standard (current) still.
 
Old 09-09-2005, 11:47 PM   #3
carboncopy
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Initial report:

Rebooted the system and everything is fine thus far. and /etc/slackware-version is Slackware 10.2.0 Hooray!!!!

More reports later.
 
Old 09-10-2005, 12:01 AM   #4
freakyg
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this is from the Slackware-Current changelog..........
Quote:
Thu Sep 8 13:24:58 PDT 2005
OK folks, this is just about ready to go. Consider nearly everything to
be set in stone at this point, especially the kernels. Zipslack has yet
to be built, and some of the documentation needs minor updating, but for
the most part this is how Slackware 10.2 is going to look. Expect a
release to happen sometime within the next week or so.
Also, a bit of advance warning: I'm going to be removing most of the
ISO images for old Slackware releases from ftp.slackware.com in order to
make room for the new release, so if you're running a mirror site and
want to save those, move them elsewhere now before they go. The ISO
images at slackware.osuosl.org in /pub/slackware-iso/ will remain, but
the ones at ftp.slackware.com and other sites under /pub/slackware are
all potentially on the chopping block.
so IF your running current now.........you have v10.2
 
Old 09-10-2005, 12:23 AM   #5
carboncopy
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So far it works great on the testing machine. Am going to move to my firewall/NAT box to apply the upgrades. Hope this don't break things there.

This will enable me to test the new rp-pppoe as well.
 
Old 09-10-2005, 01:12 AM   #6
carboncopy
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rp-pppoe version 3.6 change the commands from adsl-* to pppoe-*

So far so good. Posting via 10.2 (current) NAT box.
 
Old 09-10-2005, 05:39 AM   #7
shilo
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Re: Will 10.1 Current = New 10.2 release ??

Quote:
Originally posted by SlackwareInAZ
If so, shouldn't aaa-elflibs need to be updated as well?
Quote:
Originally posted by carboncopy
quote:aaa_elflibs (shared libraries needed by many programs)

This is a collection of shared libraries needed to run Linux programs.
ELF (Executable and Linking Format) is the standard Linux binary
format. These libraries are gathered from other Slackware packages
and are intended to give a fairly complete initial set of libraries.
This package should be not upgraded or reinstalled (it could copy
over newer library versions).
Do not upgrade or re-install aaa_elflibs. The package is usefull only when first installing Slackware. Since it is a collection of libraries "gathered from other Slackware packages", upgrading the other Slackware packages is sufficient.
 
Old 09-10-2005, 12:04 PM   #8
SlackwareInAZ
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Shilo,

Certainly respect your knowledge and expertise, but humor me with this thought.

If aaa_elf-libs are part of other slackware packages that would install the necessary libraries (presumably with the same versions), then what harm is it to install the aaa packages?

Or to put it another way, if I was to reinstall 10.1 and update to current, whether using swaret, slackpkg, slapt-get, etc, or by manually uninstalling and reinstalling all the current packages Pat has changed without upgrading aaa, then how can this be identical to 10.2 (assuming that no more changes occur before 10.2 is released).

I believe you when you state that aaa is only needed on a clean install, and that upgrading aaa could replace newer versions of libraries that other software may have installed, I guess that I believe that with the amount of changes in Slackware since 10.1 was introduced in Feb., I would rather update aaa & aaa_elf-libs and know that this will duplicate 10.2. Or maybe I will just bite the bullet and reinstall 10.2 when Pat officially releases it to the mirrors.

Thanks for your insight.

Gary
 
Old 09-10-2005, 01:46 PM   #9
jcslacker
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Here's an article that nicely explains the whole aaa_elflibs thing...

http://www.slackworld.net/02/wisdom.html#stuart
 
Old 09-15-2005, 02:44 PM   #10
ghight
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Wow, I would have bet a pretty penny that this would have tanked big time. Time and time again, even the developer has suggested that upgrading is risky at best.

Learn something new everyday I guess.

Last edited by ghight; 09-15-2005 at 02:46 PM.
 
Old 09-15-2005, 04:59 PM   #11
shilo
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlackwareInAZ

Or to put it another way, if I was to reinstall 10.1 and update to current, whether using swaret, slackpkg, slapt-get, etc, or by manually uninstalling and reinstalling all the current packages Pat has changed without upgrading aaa, then how can this be identical to 10.2 (assuming that no more changes occur before 10.2 is released).
If you do a fresh full install of 10.1, and update to current (or 10.2, there identical RIGHT NOW) without upgrading aaa* there will be a few differences between a fresh install of 10.2:

1) This is something I forgot. Since you are not upgrading aaa_base, you will need to change /etc/slackware-version to 10.2.0

Code:
# echo "Slackware 10.2.0" > /etc/slackware-version
If you did upgrade the aaa*, there is no issue, either, because this was a fresh install and no other updates were made to the libraries included in aaa*. This is only the case sometimes, specifically, wehn stuff is still clean (no other updated libraries.

Easier to use a solution that ALWAYS works (don't upgrade aaa*), than one that sometimes works.

2) You will have additional unsupported packages (e.g. GNOME)

3) You will be missing new packages (e.g. Subversion, cyrus-sasl (maybe not, since this may be picked up by swaret --dep), etc.)

Some ideas on ways to update:

1) Track current, skip aaa* packages. Note that this is not recomended if you are not able to handle an occasionally whacky system.

2) Fresh install of 10.2. Back up important configs, data, etc. Note that this is easier for some (like those who have sane partitioning schemes) than others. Also note that you will need to re-install any non-Slackware packages.

On a side note, this can be a GOOD thing. Get in the habit of making build scripts for packages you need that Slackware doesn't provide. You can re-build the packages on you new system using only backed-up scripts. This can avoid a lot of issues. You may see breakage on stuff from third parties (e.g. LinuxPackages) due to libraries changing or missing deps. You never have this issue building stuff on your own.

3) Follow UPGRADE.TXT. If there are any issues with that, you will see that others will have the same issues, and a resolution will usually be issued fairly quickly.

Some things I think are a not so good idea:

1) You want to install 10.2 fresh. You don't have the install CDs yet, so you install 10.1 fresh and upgrade to 10.2.

This is sub-optimal for a few reasons.

a) 10.2 is available via BitTorrent. Why subject the FTP servers to all the extra abuse.
b) You have to read the changelog to see what needs to be added/removed.
c) It is a much harder way to get 10.2, since you will be editing a lot of *.new config files.
d) When you have an issue (say with ALSA, for example), you will have more work to solve your issue. Is it an Alsa configuration issue? Is it an issue with your upgrade method? Is it an issue with your kernel configuration? Less things to worry about if you just do a fresh install of 10.2.

More on upgrading packages like aaa* (and the *solibs for that matter). If in doubt about what a package will do, unpack (explodepkg, or, my favorite, tar -xvzf)a copy of the package in /tmp and see what it installs. Then, check out what is on your system already. Is it redundant? Is it downgrading libraries?
 
Old 09-15-2005, 10:21 PM   #12
davidsrsb
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A rolling current PC and a 10.2 clean install are not the same because updating does not normally remove packages that are dropped by the new release eg Gnome.
 
  


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