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Old 07-15-2005, 05:57 PM   #16
gargamel
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Re: Which AMD processor for my desktop?


Quote:
Originally posted by Basel
Hi,

Which AMD processor do you recommend me to buy? I use my workstation for watching movies, browse the Internet, office, and as a development machine. I am planning to have 1GB of RAM and to install Slackware.

My main machine has

- AMD Athlon XP 2500 (Barton)
- 1 GB DDR RAM
- 2 x 80 GB Seagate IDE harddisc.

I use it for

- desktop work light word processing
- software development (Java with big IDEs like NetBeans and Eclipse)
- Web browsing and Email
- Fax server and client
- Database server (PostgreSQL)
- image processing (Astronomical data and photography)
- everything else

and it is really, really fast, even with more than one user working on it. I have this machine about a year now, and I use it daily, and there were only very few situations when the CPU load was at maximum for more then a minute. In fact, this is the first hardware that fully satisfies me. Certainly more than good enough for the tasks you mention.

I just recommend a few things, especially when you choose an AMD CPU:

- Get yourself a good computer case with noise reduction.
AMD CPUs get really hot. You need good cooling. Effective cooling means noise in most cases.

- Purchase high-quality, low-noise coolers.
Cheap coolers go bust, and as a consequence your CPU may be in danger, too. It may make sense to buy a temperature sensor with an external display, so that you can see how hot your CPU currently is. But it's not necessary, when you select good quality coolers. Again, try to find low-noise coolers. They are significantly more expensive, but you won't regret it, at least, if the machine is standing close to your desk.

- Select low-noise harddiscs.
This point is very often underestimated: Harddiscs can be *very* loud. Some start to scream at high frequencies when they get older. If the machine is used mainly for desktop purposes like the things you mention, avoid server harddiscs, as they designed for use in server rooms, not in offices (or living rooms) with human beings. That's why they are the loudest.

Have fun!

gargamel
 
Old 07-15-2005, 11:18 PM   #17
Namaseit
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http://amdmb.com/

A great place about everything AMD. The forum is also a great place to find out which motherboards are lemons, which one's work well with linux, which are a pain.

If you're getting an AMD64 processor I'd suggest getting any motherboard with a VIA K8M800 chipset. I have this one with my 3200+ 1m L2 cache proc and it's *very* nice. I researched for 3 months before buying this box. I'm the type that makes sure there's no quirky suprises and that everything is fully supported. I don't like those kind of surprises. So far, no suprises and I've been using this box for, dang, almost a year now. Plus, SATA HDD's are mighty nice as well and fairly cheap now too. IDE is still cheaper but I just love the SATA connections as well. It's so much smaller and convenient plus no worrying about master/slave settings.

Also, http://tomshardware.com is a great place to find benchmarks or reviews for everything computers.

Hope this helps.
 
Old 07-17-2005, 06:37 PM   #18
slackwarebilly
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Arrow I went cheapy, only 14

I went with the budget board, but since the last time I'd used one it had improved immensely. The accursed ECS board actually works! I got the motherboard cpu combo from Fry's electronics for $170. I picked up two sticks of 512 discount RAM that works excellently from newegg (the RAM is wintech, give it a try) for $35 each or something. Also, a 400 Watt 12v at 25 amps power supply for $16 (also from newegg) It was atadc powerking. The discount stuff actually worked, but I might just be lucky. My AMD Athlon 64 3200+ smokes, hope yours does too. BTW, it's my recommendation (3200+ 64)

If you do go 64 bit, be sure to check out Slamd64, the unnofficial 64 bit port of slackware. (you could still run 32 bit slack of course)

happy hunting,

slackwarebilly
 
Old 07-17-2005, 06:51 PM   #19
egag
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hoi slackwarebilly,

i would like to know if a 64-bit system makes a lot of diff.
i've got a " sempron 3000 " ( my athlon2800 burned. ) .

can you post the output of :

cat /proc/cpuinfo

here's mine...
---------
egag@slack21:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
cpu family : 6
model : 10
model name : AMD Sempron(TM) 3000+
stepping : 0
cpu MHz : 1988.354
cache size : 512 KB
fdiv_bug : no
hlt_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 1
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse pni syscall mp mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips : 3915.77

---------

egag
 
Old 07-17-2005, 07:11 PM   #20
slackwarebilly
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Arrow output!

This is the output in slackware 32 bitness (What I got now):

processor : 0
vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
cpu family : 15
model : 12
model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+
stepping : 0
cpu MHz : 2199.415
cache size : 512 KB
fdiv_bug : no
hlt_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 1
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmxfxsr sse sse2 syscall mmxext lm 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips : 4390.91


to answer your question, I've got a brother who's been using his Athlon 2200+ for a couple years and it performs well. All AMD chips will do, but for woopah and an investment in the future go 64 bit. Games and some programs are getting up to requiring the clock speed though.

slackwarebilly
 
Old 07-17-2005, 07:15 PM   #21
slackwarebilly
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Arrow Boot time

Slamd 64 boots like a monkey! (excuse me). it boots really fast, out of the box (so to speak) {more like off the internet}. 32 bit slack is a bit slower (actually alot on the same 64 bit processor) Slackware is made for i486 and some i686. Those are pentiums and older stuff that it's optimized for. Slamd 64 however, has recompiled all the (actually most) of the programs that come with the distro to be made x86_64. It's quick!

that's all folks,

slackwarebilly
 
Old 07-17-2005, 07:19 PM   #22
egag
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thanks for that,
i see an increase of the bogomips of some 14%.

( bogomip= http://www.webtender.com/db/drink/4491 )

but to be serious...i was wondering about the Slam64 performance...
well...32-bit is doing ok over there.

egag
 
Old 07-18-2005, 12:06 AM   #23
Namaseit
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Hmmm, I have all the slamd64 iso's sitting on my server. Maybe should do something with it.

Did you get the 3200+ with 512kb L2 cache or 1mb? Only reason I ask is because oddly, shortly after I bought mine with 1m I couldn't find the 3200+ sold with 1m L2 cache. At least not on newegg.com

Ah I see yours does have 512kb. Eh, just wondering.
 
Old 07-18-2005, 12:25 AM   #24
Basel
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Thanks guys,

I will visit some computer shops this Thursday. I will be looking for 3200+ and 3400+.
 
Old 07-18-2005, 06:04 AM   #25
Bruce Hill
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Hey, guys, those aren't really performance comparisons. If so, you need to get a 2600+ Barton like I've got here
Code:
mingdao@james:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : AuthenticAMD
cpu family      : 6
model           : 10
model name      : AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2600+
stepping        : 0
cpu MHz         : 2301.180
cache size      : 512 KB
fdiv_bug        : no
hlt_bug         : no
f00f_bug        : no
coma_bug        : no
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 1
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips        : 4521.98
cause in these tables it's eating the lunch of that 64-bit and the Sempron.

And what about this? You know a Celery with L2 Cache of 128K isn't going to outperform that Barton core CPU
Code:
mingdao@titus:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 15
model           : 2
model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.80GHz
stepping        : 9
cpu MHz         : 2800.945
cache size      : 128 KB
fdiv_bug        : no
hlt_bug         : no
f00f_bug        : no
coma_bug        : no
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 2
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe cid xtpr
bogomips        : 5554.17
but from looking at bogomips (bogo = bogus in case you didn't know) and the cpu Mhz you'd think it would.

Now, here's one real test of the CPUs on "tar", a fairly CPU intensive operation. First, the AMD AthlonXP 2600+ Barton
Code:
mingdao@james:~/build$ time tar -xvjf linux-2.6.12.3.tar.bz2
real    0m41.260s
user    0m28.033s
sys     0m5.423s
And now for the Intel Celery 2.80 GHz
Code:
mingdao@titus:~/build$ time tar -xvjf linux-2.6.12.3.tar.bz2
real    3m2.495s
user    2m8.253s
sys     0m25.283s
Well, Intel chokes again. The Celeron 2800 tar took over 3 minutes, while the AMD 2300 took 41 seconds. I'll bet you can see a difference in that L2 Cache...

Or how about this one...running "make" on the 2.6.12.3 kernel after "make oldconfig" on the 2600+ Barton
Code:
mingdao@james:~/build/linux-2.6.12.3$ time make
real    7m5.266s
user    5m52.104s
sys     0m39.248s
and on the Celery 2800
Code:
mingdao@titus:~/build/linux-2.6.12.3$ time make
real    51m41.521s
user    42m28.394s
sys     4m8.521s
There are other ways to test performance, and perhaps someone more knowledgable will give us insight. But I do know that CPU speed and bogomips aren't anywhere reliable when comparing my 5 computers.

NB: From another LQ thread, and someone more knowledgable than I ...

The time values are:
  • Real time is the actual number of elapsed seconds. This includes time spent waiting as well as time spent working.
  • User time is the amount of CPU-time spent in "user mode," that is, executing the actual code of your application.
  • Sys time is the amount of time spent in "system mode," executing operating-system code directly on behalf of your application.
See: man time. There is considerably more information that can be presented. All of the figures relate to "this process" ... the one being timed.
 
Old 07-18-2005, 06:36 AM   #26
keefaz
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Chinaman, you did overclock your athlon XP 2600+ barton, right ?
The original CPU freq is 1920.783 MHz
 
Old 07-18-2005, 07:50 AM   #27
Bruce Hill
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confused :confused:

Quote:
Originally posted by keefaz
Chinaman, you did overclock your athlon XP 2600+ barton, right ?
The original CPU freq is 1920.783 MHz
Man, am I embarrassed...and a bit confused. I didn't intentionally overclock it, but here's some truth's coming out. First, I just put a new HSF on here Saturday, and the CPU has 2600 on the die; plus one of the three AMD boxes I have here has 2600+ on it, so I know that is this CPU. (While building comps I sometimes save boxes and get confused.)

Second, I added 2600+ in my first post in this thread, because I knew that was the chipset, but it didn't show up in /proc/cpuinfo. Sometimes when I boot it says it, and sometimes it says the CPU Mhz. Once I changed the settings in CMOS, it displays 2600+ in /proc/cpuinfo.

Third, I can't find any good information on AMDs web site. The only place I found anything about this CPU is in the AMD Athlon™ XP Processor Model 10 Data Sheet which says it's either a 333 FSB or a 400 FSB. However, AMD has only the Model 8 listed as 333 FSB on the AMD Athlon™ XP Processor Thermal Solutions page.

So, help me out...where can I get some good information?

At the moment I'm running it as a 266 FSB at 1917 Mhz (in CMOS) and get this:
Code:
mingdao@james:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo 
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : AuthenticAMD
cpu family      : 6
model           : 10
model name      : AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2600+
stepping        : 0
cpu MHz         : 1916.546
cache size      : 512 KB
fdiv_bug        : no
hlt_bug         : no
f00f_bug        : no
coma_bug        : no
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 1
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips        : 3776.51
I'm about to reboot and set the FSB to 333 Mhz, and double check the v-core and everything else according to that Model 10 data sheet.
 
Old 07-18-2005, 07:59 AM   #28
keefaz
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It seems that they tell about memory bus, do not change your
CPU FSB to 333Mhz or you won't be able to boot

[edit]
It seems that I may be confused too
http://139.95.253.214/SRVS/CGI-BIN/W...Case=obj(1224)

The processor has a 333MHz FSB with a 11.5x clock multiplier by default

Last edited by keefaz; 07-18-2005 at 08:12 AM.
 
Old 07-18-2005, 08:09 AM   #29
Bruce Hill
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Quote:
Originally posted by keefaz
It seems that they tell about memory bus, do not change your
CPU FSB to 333Mhz or you won't be able to boot
Where is this information? Link, please. I just changed it to 333 and booted fine...
 
Old 07-18-2005, 08:11 AM   #30
keefaz
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I know, I edited my post
I did set the frequency too high one time, and I wasn't able to boot
that's why I wrongly emitted a warning
 
  


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