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Old 12-13-2007, 04:52 PM   #46
Alien_Hominid
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I'm not against drivers. It's hard to download drivers, because you don't have net connection because you don't have drivers --> closed circle.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 06:23 PM   #47
pbhj
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I'd like to see slackpkg a bit more advanced. For example showing the info (like "make menuconfig" does for kernel modules maybe) against packages when they are highlighted (or when an key is pressed would do fine). I'd also like the ability to do upgrade-all for say only re-packagings, all up to (OR only) minor point 0.0.1 changes, ditto point changes 0.1.0 or major point changes 1.0.0.

If it recognised whether a version number was really higher than would be good too.

TsquaredF and bioe007 mentioned less packages - I'd go with that. A base install (I can almost hear someone typing the response to tell me this exists already) that only has one newsreader, one ftp server, ... etc., package tools are advanced enough that it's easy to install more if needs be.

Other than that, maybe a preinstalled gui firewall application?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
If you don't want something installed, you can unselect it at installation time. Slackware doesn't force you to install anything.
But a lot of the packages aren't well described at install time. "Dillons cron" meant nothing to me as a noob.

Last edited by pbhj; 12-13-2007 at 06:27 PM. Reason: added extra comment
 
Old 12-13-2007, 06:25 PM   #48
onebuck
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Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by w3edr5t View Post
After checking the size requirements of Eclipse I'd have to admit it is not the kind of application you can fit on a floppy - they range from 80 to 250MB depending on configuration/plugins included.

The other packages would take about 12MB combined in package size, which isn't so terribly bad.
Why the floppy reference?
 
Old 12-13-2007, 07:21 PM   #49
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbhj View Post
I'd like to see slackpkg a bit more advanced. For example showing the info (like "make menuconfig" does for kernel modules maybe) against packages when they are highlighted (or when an key is pressed would do fine).
You mean like...
Code:
tar -zxvOf PACKAGE.tgz install/slack-desc
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbhj View Post
I'd also like the ability to do upgrade-all for say only re-packagings, all up to (OR only) minor point 0.0.1 changes, ditto point changes 0.1.0 or major point changes 1.0.0.
Couldn't you just put all the packages you want to upgrade with in a directory and
Code:
upgradepkg ./*
You could write a simple script to check for the specific version changes you are looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbhj View Post
If it recognised whether a version number was really higher than would be good too.
Shouldn't you be able to do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbhj View Post
TsquaredF and bioe007 mentioned less packages - I'd go with that. A base install (I can almost hear someone typing the response to tell me this exists already) that only has one newsreader, one ftp server, ... etc., package tools are advanced enough that it's easy to install more if needs be.

But a lot of the packages aren't well described at install time. "Dillons cron" meant nothing to me as a noob.
Yes there is a base install , but you could just make note of the software you don't know if you need, do a full install, and uninstall any you don't need later. Once you've got that figured out write a tag file to customize it and the next install will be even easier. n00bs should prefer having more packages they can install because then they can try more stuff out.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 07:47 PM   #50
shadowsnipes
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pkg-info script

In my last post I mentioned writing your own pkg scripts to check version numbers (or to even make sure you're not trying to upgrade a package with an older version) and package descriptions. I figured I'd list a short script that I just made for showing package info.

Name this something like pkg-info and place it in /usr/bin (with execute perms of course).
Code:
#!/bin/sh

if [ $1 ] && [ $(echo $1 | grep -c .tgz) == 1 ]
then
        if [ -e $1 ]
        then
                tar -zxvOf $1 install/slack-desc
        else
                echo "ERROR: $1 does not exist."
        fi
else
        echo "ERROR.  USAGE: $0 /path/to/package.tgz"
fi
So again, I don't see why this is needed in Slackware's package manager as I can easily add this functionality myself in much less time than it takes to create and send this response.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 08:45 PM   #51
MannyNix
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Interesting post, my personal thoughts:
1 FTP install would be nice. (/me thinks of FreeBSD's version-RELEASE-arch-bootonly.iso, LMO-Installer, Archlinux's core-iso, etc.
2 Updated Slackbook, official Wiki, 'bugzilla'.
3 Modular kde would be nice, but maybe too much work.
4 Option to install grub at installation (I don't personally use or intent to use it, but I've heard people afraid of trying lilo)

Good points from shadowsnipes, TSquared, Alien_Hominid, raconteur, onebuck, rworkman and many other Slackers

Hard to improve on a near perfect OS.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 09:20 PM   #52
MS3FGX
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A proper net installer is absolutely something that should be addressed; NFS just doesn't cut it anymore. There should be basic FTP support at the minimum, and ideally a list of FTP mirrors that you can install from directly. I like the installer as a whole, but it really only works well when using local media. Also, I don't see why we have PXE and USB installers, but no official net install CD (without having to use the full disc 1, obviously).

I would also agree that some of the slack-descs need work. I had actually contacted Pat about this a month or so ago and offered to flesh some of them out (especially ones that don't even explain what they are, like 90% of /x), but he wasn't interested. He said that users should only be doing a full install in the first place, so it doesn't actually matter what any of the individual packages are. If the user isn't doing a full install, he said it wasn't Slackware's responsibility to help them, and they are on their own. I think this is a pretty ridiculous line of logic (especially for a distro that is renowned for tinkering), but it is his show.

Personally, I would also like to see one of the third party package managers make it into the default install; preferably slapt-get. Installing packages directly from HTTP/FTP sources is something that there is no excuse not to have anymore, and slapt-get goes one farther and lets package maintainers add hand-tuned dependency information (if Pat doesn't want to add them to the official packages, fine, but at least give the default install some way to handle them for third party packages). Alternately, the existing pkgtools could just be modernized a bit, but I think it would be better to keep the existing tools as they are for those who aren't interested in any advanced functionality.
 
Old 12-13-2007, 10:12 PM   #53
shadowsnipes
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Perhaps what would be useful for people who want to look up more information about software than is provided in the slack-desc would be to allow them to use a web browser during the install process. I'm imagining booting into the install cd and starting a screen session. On one window you have the installer and the other you can look up information on the software's homepage via lynx (maybe you can already do this...I have never tried). In addition, the user can opt for a ftp install.

I suppose you could also offer the option to boot into a desktop with a lite GUI browser, but that feels less like Slackware and more like a live cd.

Of course it is also easy to have another computer handy to look up information during the install...people throw away old (yet very usable) hardware all the time...
 
Old 12-14-2007, 01:08 AM   #54
Alien_Hominid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS3FGX View Post
He said that users should only be doing a full install in the first place, so it doesn't actually matter what any of the individual packages are. If the user isn't doing a full install, he said it wasn't Slackware's responsibility to help them, and they are on their own. I think this is a pretty ridiculous line of logic (especially for a distro that is renowned for tinkering), but it is his show.
So why to have slack-desc and different package directories at all. It could be made into one huge slackware.tgz file then. If we look at http://packages.slackware.it/browse....nt/slackware/x we will see

Quote:
For more information about the X.Org Foundation (the providers of the
X.Org implementation of the X Window System), see their website:

http://www.x.org
Most of the packages are unknown for me. Beforelight, sounds like another wm, wtf?
Way better approach was in 10.2 http://packages.slackware.it/browse.....2/slackware/x
 
Old 12-14-2007, 01:47 AM   #55
shadowsnipes
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I agree that not having a decent description is silly. The missing descriptions would be a great addition to add to the "Slackware Bible". There could be a whole packages guide section.
 
Old 12-14-2007, 07:18 AM   #56
brianL
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The only change I can think of is to have slackpkg and src2pkg included in the full install (which is what I always choose to do).
And for those wanting a "one application per job" distro without the hassle of selection, use Zenwalk.

Last edited by brianL; 12-14-2007 at 07:22 AM.
 
Old 12-14-2007, 07:32 AM   #57
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
"one application per job"
I've tried Zenwalk, and it's a decent distro, but I'd have to say this motto is not a good one. Cuz if that one application fails (which according to Murphy is very likely), then you are screwed !

How about:
Quote:
"Don't put all your eggs in one basket"
 
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Old 12-14-2007, 08:38 AM   #58
dafunks
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There isn't really a great deal I do after a full install of Slack. I choose the full install simply because I like choice, there is a lot there to play with I have have never used, but might use. I don't find the full install bloated when compared to some other distros. Its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

All I will really do post install is install a nvidia driver, update apache, install video codecs, xawtv, Open Office, the latest irssi and an install an updated kTorrent client, with whatever lib files are required to run them. These are the things I use daily, some are already there in the ISO's, some are not and the ones that are not are easily fetched from their sites. In short, there isn't anything I can think of with the actual install I would like to see added or even taken away. I like things as they are. As suggested before, an update to the Slack book would be great.

The one thing I would like to see changed is the site shop, there are other methods of payment available, wire transfer, Paypal and also debitcards are accepted. The shop needs updated to reflect this, not everyone that wants to contribute has a credit card.

I fail to see what benefit to Slackware removing KDE would have, can someone who suggested it please enlighten me on this? I am just curious. All I can see it doing is limiting people choice. Just don't select it at install.

The fun I get with Slack is modifying and customizing what is already there to suit my needs for every day desktop use, nothing more, nothing less. I just choose to do it with a distro that is polished and genuine care and attention has been put into each release by Pat and the team. There is something about the feel of a "OMG 10 days to release .. what about the bugs? .. Don't worry we have bugzilla, people will report them" distro that just doesn't sit well with me. If I wanted an unfinished and rushed OS, I would install Vista :P

In regards to a more transparent view of the development process, join ##slackware on irc.freenode.net, you will see many a debate on what is happening with "slackware-current" with people that contribute to the finished article.

I think I have rambled enough for one day
 
Old 12-14-2007, 09:51 AM   #59
Acron_0248
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I have to agree with many of the statments regarding to packages.

I think that slackware is good with what it has, maybe there is some package you could take out, but like many others have said, it is not a bloated distro as many others, as slackware is right now, it is great.

The concept of having choices it's also great, and slackware, atm and imho, have the coices needed as it is now. The thing with adding to many packages is that, it could happen that a particular package won't be used by too many people, or will add a lot of dependencies that will slow down sysmtem's performance. Choices are good as long as they don't turn in unnecessary choices, if only twenty users of one thousand need a package, they're free to installed without to much hassle, it is their need, their choice, not a global need nor a global choice.

What I'm trying to say is that things are good as they are now with packages, by now, the most important choices are covered, as I said, yes, there are maybe some packages that could be added, but is not necessary to end up for instance with a 3 DVD full package set, I'll hate to see that.

Improvement of the slack book indeed will be a good thing, someone talk about the freebsd handbook, having something like that for slackware will be really awesome!




Regards

Last edited by Acron_0248; 12-14-2007 at 09:52 AM.
 
Old 12-14-2007, 10:16 AM   #60
ludist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
What exactly do you mean by expand it?
A 4th "extra" cd with.. extra programs. The base (2cd) installation is good. If someone wants more, lets get it.

For example OpenOffice. I know it's bloat, for this reason let's a have a 4th "bloated" cd with

OOo
ffmpeg
krusader
kile
kbibtex
ktorrent (allready in extra)
ntfs-3g
fuse
frozen bubble lol
icewm
blender
koverartist
xetex

Oooops, they are not many

Don't change Slackware

I will install the above by myself.
 
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