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Old 03-16-2009, 10:33 AM   #466
gnashley
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Sorry, ErV. Your response shows that you've never built a system before or studied how it is done. Builds that fail can't simply be put off till the end and then addressed as a separate problem from the rest of the packages.
You make the same mistake that most 'would-be' distro developers(I'm not saying you are one) do in thinking that a distro is simply a bunch of installed packages or installed-from-source programs. It just doesn't work that way.

I was in earnest when I said that many people *would* appreciate it if there were such a master build script. My sarcasm about your or any of the others who have proposed such a thing actually completing the project -the sarcasm was due to the fact that I could already see that you didn't understand what might be involved. As AlienBob explained, creating a distro is not a 'linear' job. It can be automated, don't doubt it, but it is a hell of a job to get right for any set of given packages and keeping that script working across upgrades is full-time work for several people.
Slackware has evolved as the work of a small team and steps are saved when possible. In most cases when you upgrade a certain library version, you only need to re-compile those packages which are linked to those libraries -and not always even then.

As far as server failure, surely you don't think that PatV and 'the boys' don't keep backups around?

guanx:
"Hello, Pighead." You should be nicer to memebers of the Slackware team who bring you what you know and like about Slackware. You treating respected members of the forum and slackware team in such a way will always leave you in the position your forum profile states about you:
"guanx has not made any friends"

If you don't like something about Slackware, fine -move along or make creative criticism or send bug reports or patches or whatever. To try to come across as being so wise and all-knowing, you should at least back that attitude up with something a little more helpful and useful. Show us the link to *your* work area and let us see how much you know and/or have contributed to any Open Source project.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:03 AM   #467
guanx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
I do not see a reason for name calling. You write a single line which is multi-interpretable. I only ask for more detail, and that is no reason to start pissing on me.
You disappoint me.

And still I have no idea what you intended to say. Build dependencies? If you want to take care of build dependencies automatically during a from-scratch compilation of Slackware, that is in fact only possible when you have a package manager that does dependency resolving. Why is this pigheaded?

Eric
My expression is clear enough **within that context**. You have no reason to misunderstand me. I saw you were eager to accuse someone else of making money without doing good to Slackware, while actually there was no sign of him doing so. So appearently you are messing up a serious topic which you personally don't like. Then I will not respect you.

Build dependency is different from run-time dependency. e.g. If the implementation of FUNC in LIB_v1.0 is buggy, and causes PROG to not work, upgrading to LIB_v1.1 can solve the problem, we say PROG has run-time dependency on LIB_v1.1 or later, but building PROG with LIB_v1.0 is okay because the declaration of FUNC has not changed.

Two extream cases of the difference between build dependency and run-time dependency:
1) We often upgrade the Linux kernel to get more hardware support and less panics, but rarely rebuild the whole system after that.
2) Qt3 programs can run with Qt4 if there is Qt3 compatability support. However, re-compiling should be avoided because it's bound to fail.

Last edited by guanx; 03-16-2009 at 11:19 AM.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:08 AM   #468
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
guanx:
"Hello, Pighead." You should be nicer to memebers of the Slackware team who bring you what you know and like about Slackware. You treating respected members of the forum and slackware team in such a way will always leave you in the position your forum profile states about you:
"guanx has not made any friends"
I agree, gnashley! I'm finding it very difficult to understand the confrontational, disrespectful attitude exhibited by guanx and Erv. Eric is a developer because Pat wants him on his team. Eric does exceptional work in helping to create our favourite distro.
I'm very grateful for the endless hours that the entire team puts in to build my OS of choice.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:32 AM   #469
ErV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
Sorry, ErV. Your response shows that you've never built a system before or studied how it is done. Builds that fail can't simply be put off till the end and then addressed as a separate problem from the rest of the packages.
You didn't get it. Putting package at the end of list was supposed to handle dependency problems i.e. if A requires B, but A is built before B, then build process of A will fail, A will be moved to the end of list, B will be compiled, then A will be compiled again and compilation will be succesfull. If it will fail 2 times again, problem will be reported to programmer. Pretty straightforward. By the way, in the end you'll get "right" working build order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
As far as server failure, surely you don't think that PatV and 'the boys' don't keep backups around?
The idea of building distribution manually for N years doesn't look right for me. No matter what arguments. This process should be automated. If it can't be automated, this means something is wrong and should be fixed. If all distribution are maintained this way, this means something is wrong with all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
I'm finding it very difficult to understand the confrontational, disrespectful attitude exhibited by guanx and Erv.
As far as I remember, I didn't call people names. So don't put me in the same group with other people. Besides, sarcasm isn't the best way to earn respect or maintain normal discussion.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:39 AM   #470
hitest
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Quote:
warning:
I'm evil, mean and sarcastic person with little respect to most of people and their beliefs. I provide information when I see fit, and in a way I see fit. Although I try to follow forum rules and "basic guidelines of politeness", I do not feel obliged to agree with someone and/or change, explain or disclose my point of view, even if you think it as absurd.
As you state in your signature, Erv. I said you were confrontational and disrespectful. I didn't say you were calling anyone names. And yes, I think I can safely group you together with guanx.
Lighten-up a bit please. You are coming off as quite hostile.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:47 AM   #471
ErV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
And yes, I think I can safely group you together with guanx.
Well, I don't think so, but it is not my problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Lighten-up a bit please. You are coming off as quite hostile.
I'll think about it.

Besides...
Quote:
Originally Posted by guanx View Post
Hello, Pighead. All the way long YOU and us are talking about "How to BUILD Slackware Automatically". So I must have meant the "BUILD DEPENDENCIES", which has nothing to do with installpkg. Do you really not understand?
Dude, with such attitude go kick a wall or something.
And consider talking only for yourself - I haven't asked for your support in this thread, and I don't think I need it.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 11:49 AM   #472
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErV View Post


I'll think about it.
Thank you.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 12:39 PM   #473
guanx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
guanx:
"Hello, Pighead." You should be nicer to memebers of the Slackware team who bring you what you know and like about Slackware. You treating respected members of the forum and slackware team in such a way will always leave you in the position your forum profile states about you:
"guanx has not made any friends"
I don't think this Eric the same one as the developer in Slackware team because this is not the first time that I see him comment on others without any reason. And this time he talks about money. Maybe I am over sensitive, but there are too many people around with the opinion: "What you have made is free. Why do you have money? You swindler!"

Btw, You are the other one whom I disgusted for a long time. Within this topic, you laughed out loud at another's suggestions. If you think anyone made a basic error, just tell him what he should know or what he should read about. Why laughing at him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
If you don't like something about Slackware, fine -move along or make creative criticism or send bug reports or patches or whatever. To try to come across as being so wise and all-knowing, you should at least back that attitude up with something a little more helpful and useful. Show us the link to *your* work area and let us see how much you know and/or have contributed to any Open Source project.
My contributions? Okay. Some of them:
1) Creative criticism and enhancement of Slackware, found or not found in this forum;
2) Helpful posts on telnet://bbs.smth.org for over six years (id=cppgx);
3) With my reputation gained from 1), pointing out the evil of Ubuntu on the above BBS since two years. The article of my comments has raised many discussions (google gives 612 references across various sites);
4) Code contribution to QTerm at sourceforge;
5) Forked QTerm at sourceforge to make a more stable and function-rich version in QTerm's early days (0.3.x versions).
6) Former active-participant of the Linux club in Peking University, contributions in club management and talks --
"Programming with LAME and FFMPEG" @PKU
"Qt 4.x Introduction" @PKU
"Python Language and Internals" @Institute of Automation, Chinese Academy of Science;
7) A small patch to /bin/umount
8) Small patches to the Midnight Commander;
9) Suggested patch to audacious;
10) Participation in professional open-source software development (kosmacontrol) and etc.

Now please tell me what you have done, darling.

Last edited by guanx; 03-16-2009 at 12:55 PM.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 12:45 PM   #474
guanx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErV View Post
Dude, with such attitude go kick a wall or something.
And consider talking only for yourself - I haven't asked for your support in this thread, and I don't think I need it.
I don't mean to help you. I help with realizing the idea.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 12:51 PM   #475
Woodsman
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Quote:
have you submitted your colorized boot scripts patches? I think having something similar in Slackware (perhaps with a colored echo "echoc" command), but turned off by default, would be a pleasing addition to Slackware.
Thanks for noticing.

I vaguely recall once upon a time submitting the idea to Pat. I could try again. The Zenwalk people adopted the idea after I wrote about my experiences with release 4.4.1.

The way I have the scripts colorized is easily disabled by editing one line in a config file. Some people could care less about colorized scripts and disabling is necessary. Some additional work is needed, however. Currently my color scheme works great with a black background only. Some people prefer white or transparent xterms. The config file should contain alternate color schemes for such people. I probably could add the Zenwalk color scheme for transparent xterms, which is what the Zenwalk folks use.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 12:52 PM   #476
chess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guanx View Post
I don't think this Eric the same one as the developer in Slackware team because this is not the first time that I see him comment on others without any reason. And this time he talks about money. Maybe I am over sensitive, but there are too many people around with the opinion: "What you have made is free. Why do you have money? You swindler!"
Wow, you don't think AlienBOB is the same Eric Hameleers who is part of the Slackware development team? I guess you have not been around Slackware very long, then.

Did you see the links in his sig? Did you notice how they are hosted at slackware.com? You did not notice the phrase 'Slackware Contributor' underneath his name?

I suggest you do some research.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 01:00 PM   #477
guanx
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Originally Posted by chess View Post
Wow, you don't think AlienBOB is the same Eric Hameleers who is part of the Slackware development team? I guess you have not been around Slackware very long, then.

Did you see the links in his sig? Did you notice how they are hosted at slackware.com? You did not notice the phrase 'Slackware Contributor' underneath his name?

I suggest you do some research.
Anyway, it's not important. I don't like gnashley's way of digging up what one has done -- it's more important what he is doing.

I was fairly polite to anyone before. But now he satirize others for making money. If it was really that Eric, he must be temperately in an insane state.

Last edited by guanx; 03-16-2009 at 01:05 PM.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 03:26 PM   #478
ErV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guanx View Post
I don't mean to help you. I help with realizing the idea.
Okay then.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 04:14 PM   #479
XavierP
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Well thank goodness that has all calmed down. For the record, Alien Bob is, indeed, Eric Hameleers and has done sterling work on Slackware. Also, for the record, Gnashley has also done a great of also sterling work - AmigoLinux and src2pkg to name but 2 of the things he has done.

Regardless, even if both of them were total newbies who didn't understand anything about distros, LQ states that disagreeing with others is done in a respectful way. No name calling, no flaming. And Erv's signature shouldn't be interpreted as an invitation to do so either.
 
Old 03-16-2009, 05:37 PM   #480
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErV View Post
The idea of building distribution manually for N years doesn't look right for me. No matter what arguments. This process should be automated. If it can't be automated, this means something is wrong and should be fixed. If all distribution are maintained this way, this means something is wrong with all of them.
I hate to rain on your parade buddy.

What do you think "package maintainers" do?

Yes. Every single Linux distribution is built manually.
 
  


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