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Old 01-13-2008, 04:53 AM   #226
samac
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Quote:
Quote:
A separate directory to old command line softs, no to all command line. Or to place these old softs to pasture.
What?? That didn't make sense.
I think it does make sense, but was not explained clearly. (Thats what we all get for texting and emailing too much. We should all return to quill and ink.)

I think what was meant was:

A new install directory created for all the old command line software that has been made almost redundant by graphical versions.

OR

To move all these programs to /Pasture

OR

To introduce a NO to command line programs in the installer.


My personal view is that it would make economic sense to remove the older CLI software from the install disk altogether and only have it downloadable on the Slackware page.

This would reduce hosting costs by reducing the size of the download.

It would reduce PV's workload, as he would be able to see the actual demand for these programs, which would allow him to remove them if they had little demand.

It would free up space for programs that are becoming "standards" eg. OpenOffice.

These are small changes but I feel that they would raise the profile of Slackware, and therefore its earning potential.

samac
 
Old 01-13-2008, 11:06 AM   #227
Eternal_Newbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samac View Post
I think what was meant was:

A new install directory created for all the old command line software that has been made almost redundant by graphical versions.

OR

To move all these programs to /Pasture

OR

To introduce a NO to command line programs in the installer.
The only problem with that is that 80% (to put it very conservatively) of graphical tools in GNU/Linux are just interfaces for command-line tools. For example, without cdrtools or cdrkit, K3B and all the other graphical CD-burners are rather useless.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 02:31 PM   #228
brianL
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If some of the changes suggested in this thread were adopted, it just wouldn't be Slackware any more.
 
Old 01-13-2008, 09:14 PM   #229
onebuck
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Hi,

I know! But the drift of the thread has been towards the good. I like to see what other Slackware user are thinking.
 
Old 01-14-2008, 10:13 AM   #230
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samac View Post
[...]

My personal view is that it would make economic sense to remove the older CLI software from the install disk altogether and only have it downloadable on the Slackware page.

This would reduce hosting costs by reducing the size of the download.

It would reduce PV's workload, as he would be able to see the actual demand for these programs, which would allow him to remove them if they had little demand.

It would free up space for programs that are becoming "standards" eg. OpenOffice.

These are small changes but I feel that they would raise the profile of Slackware, and therefore its earning potential.

samac
I agree that including programs like OpenOffice would raise the profile of Slackware (as long as they don't sacrifice stability), but I don't believe taking out these command line programs would help. As mentioned previously, many of them are required for GUI programs (fancy frontends). In addition, some of the others are quite useful and it is often easier to automate (or instruct on how to do manually) a task where only a simple command line is needed. Also, considering the fact of how many people apparently have trouble configuring X (mainly with direct rendering) having a few extra command line programs might not be a bad idea! Finally, I highly doubt that all the "extra" command line programs combined take up as much space as OpenOffice.

Instead, for special cases like OpenOffice I think it would be a better idea for Pat to promote something like Slackbuilds.org. At a basic level this could mean that Pat mentions particularly popular/useful slackBuilds in the Slackware READMEs, web site, slackBook, or even the installer.

At a higher level Pat could include an extra install section that allows users to select programs like OpenOffice. Selecting this would execute a small script that downloads the slackBuild from Slackbuilds.org, downloads the source as specified in the .info file, builds the program and package, and installs it. This would prevent Pat from having to add a large program to the ISO or even to the Slackware server, so bandwidth would be saved. In addition, he wouldn't have to maintain an official package himself. Instead, he would just officially support a selected group of Slackbuilds. That would save him time to work on more important things.

Even though it is very easy to manually install OpenOffice using slackbuilds.org, having it as an option in the installer would make it that much more accessible to people new to Slackware (and to Linux in general) and might give Slackware that extra edge that some desktop users are looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,

I know! But the drift of the thread has been towards the good. I like to see what other Slackware user are thinking.
I'm glad that this thread has been primarily constructive. Perhaps this thread would be a good sticky as it will apply to any future version of Slackware. It is always interesting to see the differences in thought between long time Slackware users and new users. Sometimes they agree, and sometimes they do not.
 
Old 01-15-2008, 06:48 AM   #231
Neil-
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Perhaps this sounds a bit silly, but what about a new website? When I first got slackware it (the site) gave me the appearance that slackware wasn't really maintained/current, or very modern. With things like the ubuntu 'revolution' if you would call it such, things like this could affect uptake of slackware quite a lot.

It's nice to see a clean, modern site. Slackware.com at the moment isn't this anymore, and there's also no forum to suggest an active and helpful community (which does exist!), text based changelogs only, etc..
 
Old 01-15-2008, 10:05 AM   #232
Acron_0248
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Eye-candy doesn't necessarilly mean stability, usability, portability, maintaned, up-to-date...

IMHO, adding that kind of eye-candy, isn't important when you choose a distribution, or anything, kernel.org is nothing fancy, even then, the kernel is well maintaned/current.

Besides, slackware has a principle, the web page I think is a very good example of that, KISS!




Regards
 
Old 01-15-2008, 10:17 AM   #233
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil- View Post
It's nice to see a clean, modern site. Slackware.com at the moment isn't this anymore, and there's also no forum to suggest an active and helpful community (which does exist!), text based changelogs only, etc..
That's here, and it's clearly linked from the Support page.

Sure the website doesn't boast eyecandy, but then again I highly doubt anyone will first try Slackware because they are looking for something pretty.

Last edited by shadowsnipes; 01-15-2008 at 10:19 AM. Reason: last paragraph
 
Old 01-15-2008, 10:54 AM   #234
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil-
Perhaps this sounds a bit silly, but what about a new website? When I first got slackware it (the site) gave me the appearance that slackware wasn't really maintained/current, or very modern. With things like the ubuntu 'revolution' if you would call it such, things like this could affect uptake of slackware quite a lot.

It's nice to see a clean, modern site. Slackware.com at the moment isn't this anymore, and there's also no forum to suggest an active and helpful community (which does exist!), text based changelogs only, etc.
I like the site as is. It is functional, and easy to navigate so why change it? The last thing I want is a site bloated with java, or even worse flash! To me slackware.com is the last bastion of sites where I don't have to deal with java/flash.

Acron_0248 also hit a very good point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acron_0248
kernel.org is nothing fancy, even then, the kernel is well maintaned/current.
So why would Slackware be any different if the site is still the same? What makes you think that Slackware isn't being worked on? Granted a while back Pat was ill and that greatly affected the development of Slackware, but he is no longer ill now, (*knocks on wood*) so there is no reason to think that Slackware isn't being developed further. Also, whats wrong with text changelogs? What would you prefer, a changelog out of an image such as pdf? Why!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acron_0248
Besides, slackware has a principle, the web page I think is a very good example of that, KISS!
A simple easy to navigate site, no flash to be found anywhere, thank Bob for that!
 
Old 01-15-2008, 11:54 AM   #235
Alien_Hominid
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1. It was made to work with text-only browsers.
2. All changelogs are textual. Maybe you wish some nice css and html, but this still would be the same text represented in some markup language. Converting text to html and css is easy, so PV could provide this option too for some users.

Last edited by Alien_Hominid; 01-15-2008 at 11:55 AM.
 
Old 01-15-2008, 02:52 PM   #236
gargamel
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A web site is like a sales brochure. It wouldn't hurt to make www.slackware.com look a little more fancy, and it could help to attract more people getting interested in that wonderful distribution. In other words: Slackware is so damn good, why not "sell" it accordingly?

and it is certainly possible to do it without giving up KISS principles. But: No Flash, no Java, and as little ECMAscript as possible, please! CSS supports many things that web authors tend to do in JavaScript. But CSS is much more portable, flexible and less insecure.

gargamel
 
Old 01-15-2008, 04:03 PM   #237
shadowsnipes
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as long as it also doesn't say "this is a flashy shiny distro that will distract you with its shininess" but rather "this is a distro that works and allows you to get work done -and with smooth Slackin' style"
 
Old 01-15-2008, 04:20 PM   #238
rworkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gargamel View Post
A web site is like a sales brochure. It wouldn't hurt to make www.slackware.com look a little more fancy, and it could help to attract more people getting interested in that wonderful distribution. In other words: Slackware is so damn good, why not "sell" it accordingly?
I'm not taking a position on whether the site should or shouldn't be "updated" - I think there are valid reasons for updating it, even if they're not the same as the ones given in this thread -- but...

I worked in retail sales for over three years while in college. One thing I learned is that there are some customers which you'd rather *not* be customers. What I'm trying to say is this:
People who have the "Slackware mindset" will find Slackware eventually - why mislead those who don't have the Slackware mindset?
 
Old 01-15-2008, 04:28 PM   #239
Acron_0248
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CSS here and there may be good, however, I think that a lot people tends to mixes the outside with the inside of things, and how those are related, let me explain...


I sold you a car, it's a beauty, shinny, marvelous, flashy, fancy, you just looked the outside and already you want to buy it, but the inside is another history, the engine is used, lacks of performance, it will stops everytime you try to use the car.....will you buy it? no, you won't, and worst, you'll tell everyone you know that the car doesn't work.

My point with this is that not just because looks good for the outside will be good inside, Slackware is a beauty inside, and like the distro, "the home page just works", it serves its purpose...

Yes, by nature, humans tends to see first the outside, and do things based on that, but in the ends is just silly, slackware "sells" it self by being a rock solid distro that works, not by having a fancy web page, in a proper sense, with a shinny page, you'll be selling...the page.

If it ain't broken, don't fixed it.


Regards
 
Old 01-15-2008, 04:45 PM   #240
Cotobear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil- View Post
Perhaps this sounds a bit silly, but what about a new website? When I first got slackware it (the site) gave me the appearance that slackware wasn't really maintained/current, or very modern. With things like the ubuntu 'revolution' if you would call it such, things like this could affect uptake of slackware quite a lot.
I'll be honest, I was an Ubuntu user until they released gutsy and screwed up my computer. I decided it was time for a change, and drifted to a couple different distros before settling on slack.

I hate to say it, but I think I'm addicted..
 
  


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