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Sumguy 04-15-2014 08:25 PM

Want To Try Slack - Afraid Of One Thing.....
 
Hello There, Slackers!

I use Crunchbang [sort of a minimalist Debian, for those who aren't familiar] as my primary OS, and am very happy with it- but half of my HDD is a partition that I use to fool around with other Linux OS's, until I find one that I want to keep as a secondary OS.

I've been wanting to try Slackware for some time now. One thing scares me: What's all this I hear about having to resolve dependencies manually?

Eek!

I mean, say you want to install a package. Does it tell you what dependencies it needs when you go to install it, and then you have to type in the names of those dependencies to install them, or what?

I'm no computer-geek.....but I've found all the distros I've tried so far to be very easy- but then again, all of them have been quite user-friendly, and pretty much do things like installation automatically.

So what would I be getting into with Slack? I don't mind doing things manually (in fact, I usually prefer it)....just as long as I have access to the necessary knowledge/procedures.....

So can someone please explain what package installation entails in Slack?

(I currently have AntiX on my "experimental" partition.....it's a pretty decent OS, but I'm freaked-out by the fact that the guy behind it is a Marxist- and uses his software to propagate that political philosophy. I don't care to support that any more so than I want to support Microsoft)

dive 04-15-2014 08:45 PM

Yes it's correct that there is no auto dependency resolution. Many of us use slackbuilds.org for installing extra software, and that site will have listed all the required and optional dependencies needed.

If you want to build something that isn't in on slackbuilds.org, alienBob's or rworkman's repos then usually the output from ./configure will tell you it needs something.

TobiSGD 04-15-2014 09:06 PM

In addition to what dive posted, you can use tools like sbopkg together with sqg to automatically install packages from Slackbuilds.org with their listed dependencies, so that (if you want) you have some kind of automatic dependency resolution.

moisespedro 04-15-2014 09:12 PM

I suggest you reading this and, to be honest, with slackpkg+ and sbopkg I can still pretty much everything I need.

ReaperX7 04-15-2014 09:23 PM

Honestly, try not to think too much about it.

Slackware already comes with a lot of software libraries and packages that resolve a lot of dependencies from the SlackBuilds website.

Slackbuilds.org also lists and links to any prerequisite dependencies needed by a package, so you'll know exactly what you need.

You should also create a SBO-List.txt file in your root directory folder to track any SBo packages you install so you can tell what is installed in case a package is a dependency of another.

Manual dependency resolution is not that bad. Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature to you.

frankbell 04-15-2014 09:29 PM

I normally use the repositories that dive mentioned above.

When I started with Slackware, slackbuilds.org did not exist, but there were a few websites that provided Slackware packages. Mostly, though, I compiled from sources. It's not as intimidating as it sounds.

If you are compiling from sources, error messages will tell you what dependency(ies) is missing.

I have to say that I do not really miss searching for dependencies on the web, but, at the time it was kind of fun. And it was a darned good learning experience.

Don't be afraid of Slackware; it's not the monster that some persons seem to think it is. Out of the box, it gives you a full-featured software install with programs to do just about anything you might want to do, and, when you start to customize it, you will find that it is a damned fine teacher.

I started with Slackware. Since then, I've used lots of distros (I'm typing this on Debian while I watch an old television show on Mageia over there, on the other computer on this desk).

Wherever I wander, though, I always seem to come back to the elegant simplicity of Slackware--the Distro of Iron, that always works and never breaks.

Sumguy 04-15-2014 09:36 PM

Well, thanks, everyone!

And FrankBell, you know, since it will not be my primary OS; and since I really have been wanting something which will force me to learn more (I had even mentioned that in another thread, some time ago- and a few people- probably including you, mentioned that Slack would be right up my alley)

I may just taske the plunge, and give it a try.

(I just ordered a copy of The Collector from Amazon..... too lazy to post that fact in the "old Movie" thread!)

willysr 04-15-2014 10:00 PM

I would suggest you to have a look on my blog post about resolving dependencies for packages in SBo project using sbopkg + sqg. It's very easy to do :)

coldbeer 04-15-2014 10:44 PM

The other thing you're not considering is that with other distributions, you start with a minimalist system and then you have to install everything yourself. Yes it is easy to install things but you install what you want, not what you need. So every time you turn around, you need to install something else. Its endless. And you pay dearly for that easy install with config files chopped up and scattered such that the original application developers documentation is worthless to you.

Slackware starts with nearly everything you need. So the amount of software you need to install is minimal. Slackware follows the file hierarchy standard. The applications included are setup as the developer intended and their documentation is fully applicable. And unlike those minimal systems, when you do need to download source and compile it, you've got all the compiler tools already there.

My $0.02

Sumguy 04-15-2014 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willysr (Post 5153615)
I would suggest you to have a look on my blog post about resolving dependencies for packages in SBo project using sbopkg + sqg. It's very easy to do :)

Will do! (Just hope I understand it- It's been my experience that a lot of such things are written for the benefit of people who are more advanced than I). Then again, I'm also the type who will dive-in and give it a try, and figure out what I don't understand, as I go. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldbeer (Post 5153645)
The other thing you're not considering is that with other distributions, you start with a minimalist system and then you have to install everything yourself. Yes it is easy to install things but you install what you want, not what you need. So every time you turn around, you need to install something else. Its endless. And you pay dearly for that easy install with config files chopped up and scattered such that the original application developers documentation is worthless to you.

Slackware starts with nearly everything you need. So the amount of software you need to install is minimal. Slackware follows the file hierarchy standard. The applications included are setup as the developer intended and their documentation is fully applicable. And unlike those minimal systems, when you do need to download source and compile it, you've got all the compiler tools already there.

My $0.02

Interesting. On the one hand, I like the minimalistic systems because I really don't need a lot of software. They give me a fully functional system, and I just have to install a few necesseties. I tend to avoid the "big systems" with a lot of bloat, because I never use 97% of the things offer- and yet still have to install my necesseties. I'm glad you said what you did, because i may have looked at Slack and thought of it as bloated; but now i won't look at it as bloat, but rather, like you said, as an integrated whole that is designed to work at it's best.

Thanks again, to everyone. I'm learning!

hitest 04-16-2014 12:10 AM

Further to the above, excellent posts I suggest that you do a full install of Slackware. A full install of Slackware works out of the box with all dependencies met.
After you're up and running you can install stuff from the above-mentioned repositories and web-sites.
Happy Slacking. :)

Sumguy 04-16-2014 01:20 AM

Good advice, Hitest; I'll take it!

Guys, ya know......sometimes fear of the unknown is the biggest obstacle! I always imagined that compiling was some kind of computer-programming-esque feat only for supernerds....

I just took a quick look-see on Youtube (I should be in bed...but I like this stuff!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7_5zsaQlFE

DAYUMMmmm!!! That's it? That's all there is to it? That's what I've been living in fear of for years?

Is that really all that is to it?????

I feel like such a tool! So...compiling isn't the boogeyman that I had imagined it to be?

G'night everyone, and thanks for the encouragement!

dugan 04-16-2014 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumguy (Post 5153564)
What's all this I hear about having to resolve dependencies manually?

It's really a misconception.

Most of us build our Slackware packages using scripts from SlackBuilds.org. The descriptions of each script on SlackBuilds.org lists its dependencies.

SlackBuilds.org has a frontend called sbopkg. Sbopkg lets you create queues of packages to build and install in order. That helps.

And then there are tools like sqg, which automatically parse the SlackBuilds.org "database" and build the queues for you. After you run it and have your queues generated, you can do "sbopkg -i ffmpeg", or "sbopkg -i ffmpeg -k" if you don't want packages you already have installed rebuilt, to install ffmpeg and all its dependencies.

Furthermore, the "lack" of dependency resolution doesn't lock you down to package versions the way other distributions do. Want to install a new version of nginx? Just get the SlackBuild and a newer nginx source tarball, and use the SlackBuild script to build and install the newer version. You can upgrade almost all packages that way, including those that are part of Slackware. If you're worried about this causing problems with library conflicts, well, in practice it never does.

A full install of Slackware is designed to make this process as easy as possible, by including most of the dependencies that you're going to need.

Yes, the overall process is still more involved and time-consuming than on other distros. To me, the gain in control is worth it, and the workflow is more than efficient enough.

Sumguy 04-16-2014 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 5153716)
It's really a misconception.

Most of us build our Slackware packages using scripts from SlackBuilds.org. The descriptions of each script on SlackBuilds.org lists its dependencies.

SlackBuilds.org has a frontend called sbopkg. Sbopkg lets you create queues of packages to build and install in order. That helps.

And then there are tools like sqg, which automatically parse the SlackBuilds.org "database" and build the queues for you. After you run it and have your queues generated, you can do "sbopkg -i ffmpeg", or "sbopkg -i ffmpeg -k" if you don't want packages you already have installed rebuilt, to install ffmpeg and all its dependencies.

Furthermore, the "lack" of dependency resolution doesn't lock you down to package versions the way other distributions do. Want to install a new version of nginx? Just get the SlackBuild and a newer nginx source tarball, and use the SlackBuild script to build and install the newer version. You can upgrade almost all packages that way, including those that are part of Slackware. If you're worried about this causing problems with library conflicts, well, in practice it never does.

A full install of Slackware is designed to make this process as easy as possible, by including most of the dependencies that you're going to need.

Yes, the overall process is still more involved and time-consuming than on other distros. To me, the gain in control is worth it, and the workflow is more than efficient enough.

You know? With all these great explanations, it's actually beginning to sound rather easy!

A Youtube review of Slackware which I was watching last night basically said the same thing too, about the fredom of choice in updating selectively- and I LOVE that feature! My whole computing life, I've always avoided doing updates, until absolutely positively necessary- I always hated the idea of clicking a button and sitting there helplessly as thousands of different things just get changed whether you like it or not.

I like having control (I'd much rather drive a stick than an automatic)- and these days especially, where often, just doing something manually, is often actually much easier than trying to "trick" some automated system into doing what you want it to.

I basically operate under the idea that if I have a good-working system, there should be little need to modify it. i.e. the idea of always keeping my OS "current" is anathema to me; I like to install something, and, if it works good, just leave it alone until and if there is some actual need to change it. Sounds like Slackware is made for me!

My greatest fear now, is that I'll likely install so little software, that on the rare occasion that I do need to install something, I'll probably have folrgotten how to do it! :D (Even on my minimal systems, I basically install Emilia Pinball; an audio tagger [and that is likely unnecessary- I could probably just learn to do what I need to do with a terminal script); Xiphos; and maybe an alternate browser and email client (And I'm thinking of switching to MUTT for email...so that should be easy!).

Oh, I think I'm going to like Slackware. If I remember correctly, even though it's a big distro, it should still work on my 7 year-old POS 'puter, eh?

For some reason, I had been laboring under the idea that Slack was some kind of erector-set OS, where you basically had to build an OS from scratch- installing and tweaking every little thing- even the most basic utilities. Sounds like that is definitely not the case.

Methinks I'll be burning an ISO tonight!

Sumguy 04-16-2014 10:35 AM

...and this thread will make a handy point of reference for me, for all the links in youse guyses[sic] signatures!


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