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Old 10-14-2010, 02:16 PM   #16
Woodsman
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Hi Gems and Germs,

My apologies for being out of touch, but that will be the general state of my schedule for a while. I feel awkward about posting the announcement and then being unavailable, but that is how things timed out. I had hoped to have more time for group debugging but my plans did not work that way. I am glad at least something was made available before my schedule changed.

Trinity is 64-bit compatible. I am not running 64-bit. Someone interested in the project who uses a 64-bit version of Slackware will have to explore those avenues and provide others the necessary information. The build scripts I created should create the appropriate configure variables for 64-bit, but as I don't run 64-bit, I have not been able to test that. That is, the variables should get automatically appended to the 64-bit library directories.

Regarding the link of Amarok to libmp4v2, yes I built the package that way. I downloaded and built libmp4v2 from slackbuilds.org. I presumed that if libmp4v2 was not installed that Amarok would treat the built-in link as a dead-end stub. Perhaps I presumed wrong. My reason for building that way was so people could install libmp4v2 and automatically have mp4 tagging support without having to rebuild Amarok. Please let me know if my approach is incorrect.

I don't know what might have caused the empty menu and windows. I have not seen that during my testing. Of course, I am only one person with a limited number of test environments, and that behavior could very well be a bug affecting others but not me. Please join the Trinity user's list and start a thread addressing the problem. My first wild unscientific guess is you do not have the tqtinterface package installed. The tqtinterface package provides a thin wrapper to qt. The long-term goal is that Trinity one day will be compatible with qt4 and that is the purpose of the tqtinterface package.

Regarding libnvidia, at one time my build environment had the proprietary nvidia packages installed. My bad. I realized the problems associated with that and removed the packages from my build environment. Possibly though, removing the packages left some remnant libraries. There should not be any linking to the proprietary drivers. I'll investigate further as I have time. My build environment should not be contaminated but apparently is. I appreciate any information that will help me troubleshoot, considering I don't have the proprietary drivers installed in my build environment.

I also use a virtual machine to test the final packages and that environment does not have nvidia installed.

Regarding the most recent version of ktorrent, please submit a bug report at the Trinity bugzilla. I was unaware of the older version being used. We got a few other non-core packages updated, but I missed that one.

Regarding the Trinity project and Slackware, I am committed to continuing the efforts. I need help, especially with my recent schedule providing so little time. I do not expect to have any time for this work for many weeks. The build scripts are in good condition for an experienced person to try building packages for 13.0 and 13.1. I don't think a lot of work is needed to tweak the scripts. Obviously qt3 and some related packages need to be rebuilt in those Slackware releases. I wrote the build scripts to notice those missing packages. The scripts should automatically create the correct configure variables, just like supporting 64-bit. The default then for 13.0 and 13.1 should build the packages in /opt rather than /usr and avoid potential conflicts with kde4 and qt4.

Being content with KDE 3.5.10, I never migrated to 13.0 or 13.1. Now that Trinity is available, I plan to move to 13.1 and build Trinity for that Slackware release. Unfortunately, my schedule prohibits that for a long while. I have no desire for my initial efforts to remain mine. I want them to become community property. Please feel free to improve the build scripts, notes, documentation, etc. I'll update my web site as often as possible with the new information, but probably no quicker than weekly.

There are other people involved with building Trinity packages for other systems. I know of a person creating RPM packages for those distros and another for Gentoo and I think another for Arch. There is some work being done to support cmake. Currently I am the only Slacker participating but more are welcomed and encouraged to join the effort. As I explained at my web site, the original Trinity packages were Debianized. My efforts to unDebianize Trinity took about 6 weeks, but the end result was creating a more robust and stable desktop environment. Trinity is in much better shape now than 2 months ago because of that shake-down. Thus I don't think Trinity is going to die any time soon.

I'll try to check in here as much as reasonably possible. You can contact me at me web site too, but I am unlikely to respond quickly. My schedule precludes that.

I'm new to creating packages for other people. So feel free to share advice.
 
Old 10-14-2010, 03:31 PM   #17
igadoter
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Nice to hear you again,
This month and next (probably) I also will be busy - but after that I may try to help. But I am not experienced
in building such large projects like Trinity. I am glad to hear that in time KDE 3.5.x will be available for more recent
Slackware releases. My best regards.

Last edited by igadoter; 10-14-2010 at 03:31 PM. Reason: erratum
 
Old 10-15-2010, 04:40 PM   #18
Eternal_Newbie
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Thanks for the reply, Woodsman, and many thanks for your efforts.

It turned out the reason for my libmp4 missing symlink was that I was running an older version of the SBO faac package. I updated to the seperate SBO libmp4 and faac packages for 12.2 which provide the symlink.

I think your approach is reasonable, it is fair to assume to assume that people will have the various SBO packages for things like libmp4, faac & faad installed. You do after all list the external packages you compiled against in the Readme included with your Trinity packages. Possibly you could include in there a reminder to use the latest versions available at SBO (or wherever you sourced them), and perhaps list the versions you compiled against.

As for the empty menus, I haven't figured that out yet. I do, however have the tqtinterface package installed. As I said, my 12.2 installation is rather crufty. I must do a clean install of 12.2 (without KDE), install all the requirements and then Trinity and see if it happens again.

EDIT: another suggestion, perhaps you could use a distinct tag for your Trinity slackbuilds, maybe something like TRI(if it's not being used)? IMHO, it would make it easier to distinguish them, for mass install and uninstall, and for pinning/blacklisting them in slapt-get and slackpkg.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

Last edited by Eternal_Newbie; 10-15-2010 at 08:27 PM.
 
Old 10-15-2010, 10:07 PM   #19
Woodsman
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Quote:
I've noticed that with Woodsman's packages at least some KDE programs are linked against libnvidia-tls.so.1
How did you determine that? Which packages are linked to that file?

I would like to correct the problem. I don't have the nvidia drivers installed in my build environment and I don't have that specific file installed.

Thanks much!
 
Old 10-16-2010, 09:58 AM   #20
Eternal_Newbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
How did you determine that? Which packages are linked to that file?

I would like to correct the problem. I don't have the nvidia drivers installed in my build environment and I don't have that specific file installed.

Thanks much!
I ran ldd against a few programs, amarokapp, and a couple others, and libnvidia-tls.so.1 was listed in their dependencies.

I am not sure if this is significant as I first thought, however. I removed the Trinity packages and reinstalled the stock KDE packages, and libnvidia-tls.so.1 also shows up when I run ldd against the stock KDE programs. So either KDE actually uses it for something, or it only shows up as a side effect of running on a system with with the NVidia proprietary drivers installed. Interestingly it only seems to show up when I run ldd against KDE programs, (Trinity and stock).

Either way I think my first assumption was incorrect. Sorry If I sent you on a wild goose chase.

Last edited by Eternal_Newbie; 10-16-2010 at 10:01 AM.
 
Old 10-16-2010, 10:18 AM   #21
igadoter
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I may run on my own computer these test and find out if libnvida-tls.so.1 will appear.
I am sure I have no nvidia driver installed except that coming with X server. What should I do?
Which applications should I verify?
 
Old 10-16-2010, 10:31 AM   #22
Eternal_Newbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
I may run on my own computer these test and find out if libnvida-tls.so.1 will appear.
I am sure I have no nvidia driver installed except that coming with X server. What should I do?
Which applications should I verify?
Just run ldd against a few KDE programs, like
ldd `which amarokapp` ldd `which k3b` or ldd `which konqueror`

and see if libnvidia-tls.so.1 is included in the output and importantly, if libnvidia-tls.so.1 actually present on your system.

As I said, I am starting to think I sent us on a wild goose chase with this, though.

EDIT: It would be good to get confirmation it was a false lead, though.

Last edited by Eternal_Newbie; 10-16-2010 at 10:46 AM.
 
Old 10-16-2010, 11:29 AM   #23
Woodsman
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Okay, thanks.

I ran ldd against several apps. I did this in 12.2 with KDE 3.5.10 and the nvidia drivers installed; and in both in my build and virtual machine testing environments, both of which have Trinity installed but not the nvidia software.

No dependency against libnividia* appears in either of the latter two. The dependency appears in the environment with the drivers installed.

I won't pretend to understand all that is involved, but seems that the dependency appears only when the nvidia package is installed. I'll presume then that my build environment is fine, but I welcome any information otherwise.
 
Old 10-16-2010, 11:51 AM   #24
Woodsman
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I submitted a bug report about the ktorrent version. The version will get updated in SVN and is unlikely to be updated in the 3.5.12 tarball collection.

The good news is none of the non-core apps are modified with the tqtinterface wrapper. Thus, for those so inclined, grab non-core package source tarballs from whereever and build. The ktorrent sources are available in the 12.2 source extra tree.

Downloading the ktorrent 2.2.8 package from the 12.2 package tree is unlikely to function correctly because so much has changed in the Trinity kdebase/kdelibs and /usr/lib header files.

The same applies to various apps such as kaffeine, kmplayer, etc. Many of those packages can be built from slackbuilds.org.

Any bugs that have been fixed in Trinity will not be fixed in the original tarballs. Users can browse the Trinity patch history for specific patches and apply them in their build scripts. One such example is Amarok, but Amarok is the most current version and should not be a problem. Plus Amarok is patched in Trinity with several bug fixes. Thus, the ktorrent issue is likely to be the exception rather than the norm.

I hope this helps.

Last edited by Woodsman; 10-16-2010 at 11:52 AM.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 05:46 AM   #25
igadoter
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Hi,
I don't well understand a purpose of a aaaREADME.txt file in TDE packages collection. There is a list of additional libraries and software. Are they needed for Trinity to work? Should I install all of them? I am asking because I have some problems with building (eg. graphviz).
 
Old 10-19-2010, 07:40 AM   #26
igadoter
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Hi,
These are missing dependencies for Trinity binaries I found on my system
Code:
libdvdread.so.4
libexiv2.so.5
libjasper.so.1
libkdcraw.so.4
libkexiv2.so.5
libkipi.so.0
libmp4v2.so.1
I checked dependencies for all binaries installed under /usr/bin/ for all *.tgz packages. I used a command 'ldd `which $i`. During the check I get an error message
Code:
lddlibc4: cannot read header from '/usr/bin/krdb': No such file or directory.
Trinity packages I installed on my system
Code:
 kdeaccessibility-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 gtk-qt-engine-3.5.12-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 tqtinterface-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 pyqt3-x11_gpl_3.18.1-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 kdebindings-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdesdk-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdetoys-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 libical-0.46-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 kdegraphics-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kaffeine-3.5.12-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 pykde3-3.16.7-i486-1.tgz
 kdemultimedia-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdeutils-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 k3b-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdeadmin-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 ksystemlog-3.5.12-i486-1_SeuT.tgz
 kdevelop-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdeaddons-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdegames-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdeedu-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 digikam-3.5.12-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 k9copy-3.5.12-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 koffice-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 arts-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdepim-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 ktorrent-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdenetwork-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 gwenview-3.5.12-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 kdeartwork-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 sip-4.11.1-i486-1_SBoT.tgz
 kdewebdev-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 amarok-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdebase-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 kdelibs-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 libcaldav-0.6.5-i486-1.tgz
 knemo-3.5.12-i486-1.tgz
 
Old 10-22-2010, 09:44 AM   #27
statguy
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This looks like something I need to install, but after reading the instructions Woodsman provided a link to in his OP, I find myself a bit confused (or more confused than usual).

I am running Slack 12.2 with kde 3.5.10. There appeared to be instructions for building 3.5.12 directly or patching the 3.5.10 sources. I'm worried if I go the patch route, I will mess things up terribly. The instructions say that for a 3.5.12 build, it needs to be done with no 3.5.10 present (it says something about a chroot? environment which I can read about).

So, suppose I build 3.5.12 directly from source. Then what? Do I use upgradepkg to install the built packages, or do I need to to a removepkg of all existing KDE stuff followed by an installpkg?
 
Old 10-23-2010, 02:17 PM   #28
Woodsman
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Quote:
I don't well understand a purpose of a aaaREADME.txt file in TDE packages collection. There is a list of additional libraries and software. Are they needed for Trinity to work? Should I install all of them? I am asking because I have some problems with building (eg. graphviz).
I intended the aaaREADME.txt file to provide information about how I built the Trinity packages. Straightforward open disclosure. As requested previously in the thread, I updated the file to include which versions of the non-Trinity packages I used. Usually there is a 24-hour delay in updating the repository, which I do not control. Hopefully the updated file is available tomorrow.

In the past KDE was built on Slackware without any of the hooks KDE was capable of using. A pure stock build. An example is K3B. My hope and intention of building Trinity packages was to enable those hooks for users such that when they added those additional non-Trinity packages, the underlying Trinity packages would be able to take advantage immediately without having to rebuild Trinity packages. My goal was to help people who like the Slackware design but do not necessarily want to build packages.

Folks who build Trinity on their own do not have to build or install those non-Trinity packages.

The non-Trinity packages are not needed with the pre-built Trinity packages either. I am only one person and have not tested exhaustively, but I have not yet found a problem with the Trinity packages when those non-Trinity packages are not installed.

Regarding graphviz, I am using 12.2 and built graphviz 2.26.3 without issues in my Trinity chroot environment.

Quote:
These are missing dependencies for Trinity binaries I found on my system
I am only one person and have limited ability to check and test multiple environments. I wish I could. I readily admit that additional people are needed to help test anything I offer. What I have done works for me, but I never will admit or agree that everything will just work for others. That is the purpose of beta testing.

I also admit that currently my personal schedule is crazy. I can't test and continue testing like I want. Basically I'm limited to part of the weekend to try to help. I will help as much as I can, but if Trinity is to become meaningful for Slackware users, then a few additional people are going to have to help. I'm between a rock and hard place with my time right now.

More participation is something I warmly embrace. Just a few more people would mean a significant difference in preparing and testing Trinity with Slackware. I think Trinity offers a wonderful way to keep using KDE on older hardware and provides a plausible option for people who liked KDE 3.5. In my opinion, Trinity has become what KDE 3.5 should have been before the KDE developers started KDE 4.

Quote:
I am running Slack 12.2 with kde 3.5.10. There appeared to be instructions for building 3.5.12 directly or patching the 3.5.10 sources. I'm worried if I go the patch route, I will mess things up terribly.
The two options are unique and not related.

If you want to continue using KDE 3.5.10 and add the handful of patches I provide, then you do not need to worry about Trinity. And vice-versa.

I have used the patched 3.5.10 for quite a while now. Having ark support the newer txz package format is nice.

As provided at my web site, the patch route only provides a few patches. You don't need to uninstall anything. Just rebuild the packages in your current environment. The include and header files are still 3.5.10 and just adding the few patches I provide will be okay.

If you do not want to build patched 3.5.10 packages, I updated my web site with some links to pre-built packages (bottom of page). I do not guarantee the links will remain active. Depends mostly upon how much interest there is and how much bandwidth those four packages costs me.

Quote:
The instructions say that for a 3.5.12 build, it needs to be done with no 3.5.10 present (it says something about a chroot? environment which I can read about).
The include and header files provided with Trinity 3.5.12 are different from the stock 3.5.10. If any traces of those include and header files are present when building Trinity 3.5.12, then the build process eventually will fail. I learned that lesson the hard way when I first started trying to build Trinity. Therefore, 3.5.10 must be purged before building Trinity.

A chroot environment provides a mechanism for creating a duplicate operating system within an operating system. A chroot is not as completely sandboxed as a virtual machine, but provides a "good enough" environment for building packages without contamination. For example, as previously discussed in this thread, there was some concern my chroot build environment was contaminated with the proprietary nvidia drivers, but that is not the case. My chroot environment does not have those files installed and does not have any traces of KDE 3.5.10 installed.

Other options to a chroot environment are virtual machines and separate installations. With respect to the long build times for several KDE/Trinity packages, a virtual machine tends to be slower with respect to build times but is a reasonable way to keep the build environment clean. A separate installation of your operating system can be performed with a separate computer or separate partitions and a separate boot loader option.

Quote:
So, suppose I build 3.5.12 directly from source. Then what? Do I use upgradepkg to install the built packages, or do I need to to a removepkg of all existing KDE stuff followed by an installpkg?
That is a good question. I don't have an answer. I have not tested installing Trinity with 3.5.10 still installed. If I had the time I gladly would test in at least a virtual machine.

Although Trinity is based on KDE 3.5.10, I personally would not try the upgradepkg route on a production machine.

My primary concern is the difference in header and include files. Using the upgradepkg route might work without hitch, but I have not tested that option. In my testing I have been removing the KDE packages before installing the Trinity packages. I have not experienced any problems with that route.

I have had no problems using upgradepkg once all the Trinity packages are initially installed.
 
Old 10-23-2010, 03:40 PM   #29
statguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
That is a good question. I don't have an answer. I have not tested installing Trinity with 3.5.10 still installed. If I had the time I gladly would test in at least a virtual machine.

Although Trinity is based on KDE 3.5.10, I personally would not try the upgradepkg route on a production machine.

My primary concern is the difference in header and include files. Using the upgradepkg route might work without hitch, but I have not tested that option. In my testing I have been removing the KDE packages before installing the Trinity packages. I have not experienced any problems with that route.

I have had no problems using upgradepkg once all the Trinity packages are initially installed.
Thanks for your answers. I have downloaded the slackware.tar.gz file containing all the packages. As I write this, I'm installing Slack 12.2 to a virtual machine where I can test install the packages to see what I can break.

I'll post back with the results of my experimentation.
 
Old 10-26-2010, 09:04 PM   #30
statguy
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All right. I tried using the upgradepkg route (on a virtual machine, of course). That did not work at all. I could start kde, but the menu was mostly empty but nothing that was there would launch. Clicking the desktop icons did not have the anticipated effects either.

I copied my VDI file before I tried so reverting would be easy. Once I revert, I'll try to remove the existing kde packages first.

So, you were quite wise not to trust upgradepkg for this task.
 
  


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