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Old 10-08-2006, 07:37 PM   #61
dunric
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Registered: Jul 2004
Distribution: Slackware
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldk
The only real netinstall option in the Slack installer are NFS installs. For installing from an internal NFS server, that's great, but absense of FTP installation support is a pain.
A pain ? It's a very subjective and questionable statement. Yes, it would be nice if installer would support ftp install but Slackware's package management don't directly support remote installs and due to minimalistic approach the 1st CD contains almost a complete system so it won't save too much like at Debian f.E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldk
Each to its own, but I started to agree over time. If you have a deadline, say next week, it is really painful to manually compile program X which has n dependencies that are not in the standard Slackware package set.
Why one would do that ? If you deploy Slack without a check if it offers required important (and complex) software, you've made a wrong decision in the beginnig and that's not a distro's fault but yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldk
Another nit is that the package set is very small. This means that you'll often have to install other software, and to track security updates for this software. Even basic widely used packages like PosgreSQL and Postfix are not there. And outside a hobbyist setting, you can't really sell that, especially because others do it with a simple apt-get upgrade or yum install. It is just something that is not viable within most (but not all) parts of the real world.
Yes, Slackware package base is relatively limited from the quantity point of view, but if it'll satisfy customer's or my requirements what's wrong with that ? If MTA is asked and there is no special and/or reasonable demand for Postfix why Sendmail couldn't be used ? It is valid for other apps too (MySQL/PSQL, Apache 1.x/Apache 2.x etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldk
This is probably one of the reasons why you barely see Slackware installs in enterprises these days. It is mostly Debian and Red Hat.
I don't know what does mean word "enterprise" in binding with Linux to you but in praxis you'll met RHEL or Novell's SLE 99% of times - distros with paid full support backgrounded by a big commercial company, with certified support of Enterprise software vendors like Oracle. Not the case of Debian or CentOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldk
When it comes to a building a minimal system, most BSDs beat Slack hands down. BSD libc and userland are a lot smaller, but have better features at the same time.
Sorry but that's a plain BS. Can you somehow support such claim ? I've built many routers and in my experience minimal base system of FBSD, NetBSD or even OpenBSD is much more bloated then f.E. Slackware's. In addition this "base" system is installed without a use of some package management, so there are no installation records for later manipulation like additional software removal.

Last edited by dunric; 10-08-2006 at 07:45 PM.
 
Old 10-08-2006, 09:06 PM   #62
folkenfanel
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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: formerly Fanelia and Zaibach
Distribution: Slackware-current with KDE 4.8.5
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Wink We do use Slackware for enterprise stuff...

Hi there

We do use Slackware at work. It rocks.

It's great to be the SquidMaster in my intranet (all my other coworkers excepting the boss can't access "those" websites ).
 
Old 10-08-2006, 11:45 PM   #63
joegumbo
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Registered: Sep 2006
Distribution: Frugalware
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Though I'm still new to Slackware, I'd like to add my small comment...

i bought an eMachine W3502. I tried to install:

Xandrso OS3 Deluxe--- FAILED I tried various options.. It would jsut hag during install
Xandrso OS2 Deluxe----FAILED " ' ' ' ' ' '
SuSE 10.0 Boxed Ed-----FAILED Went on, wouldn't boot
Fedora CORE 5---------FAILED Graphis so far out of whack I couldn't dom anything
Mepis-----------------No sound, graphics were weird
Knoppix (various versions)---FAILED refused to install on HD
Pink Tie Linux---------FAILED Graphics so far out of whack it was uninstallable
Darkstar Linux--------FAILED went on.. wouldn't boot
Ubuntu----------------FAILED Graphics all messed up
Kubuntu---------------FAILED ' ' ' ' ' '
Mandrake--------------FAILED ' ' ' ' '
etc.------------------FAILED ' ' ' ' ' ' '


Slackware 10.2--------SUCCESS Flawless (after I reburned install media.)

Why this is, I have no idea. But, if it wasn'r for Slackware, I would not be using Linux at all on this box.

-Joe

Last edited by joegumbo; 10-08-2006 at 11:47 PM.
 
Old 10-09-2006, 12:36 AM   #64
xgreen
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Registered: Aug 2003
Distribution: Slackware,Ubuntu
Posts: 389

Rep: Reputation: 30
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by joegumbo
Though I'm still new to Slackware, I'd like to add my small comment...

i bought an eMachine W3502. I tried to install:

Xandrso OS3 Deluxe--- FAILED I tried various options.. It would jsut hag during install
Xandrso OS2 Deluxe----FAILED " ' ' ' ' ' '
SuSE 10.0 Boxed Ed-----FAILED Went on, wouldn't boot
Fedora CORE 5---------FAILED Graphis so far out of whack I couldn't dom anything
Mepis-----------------No sound, graphics were weird
Knoppix (various versions)---FAILED refused to install on HD
Pink Tie Linux---------FAILED Graphics so far out of whack it was uninstallable
Darkstar Linux--------FAILED went on.. wouldn't boot
Ubuntu----------------FAILED Graphics all messed up
Kubuntu---------------FAILED ' ' ' ' ' '
Mandrake--------------FAILED ' ' ' ' '
etc.------------------FAILED ' ' ' ' ' ' '


Slackware 10.2--------SUCCESS Flawless (after I reburned install media.)

Why this is, I have no idea. But, if it wasn'r for Slackware, I would not be using Linux at all on this box.

-Joe
weird to know so many distro failed with your system.... :-)
 
Old 10-09-2006, 07:39 AM   #65
AtomicAmish
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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: East coast, USA
Distribution: Slackware 12.0
Posts: 139

Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by joegumbo
Though I'm still new to Slackware, I'd like to add my small comment...

i bought an eMachine W3502. I tried to install:

Xandrso OS3 Deluxe--- FAILED I tried various options.. It would jsut hag during install
Xandrso OS2 Deluxe----FAILED " ' ' ' ' ' '
SuSE 10.0 Boxed Ed-----FAILED Went on, wouldn't boot
Fedora CORE 5---------FAILED Graphis so far out of whack I couldn't dom anything
Mepis-----------------No sound, graphics were weird
Knoppix (various versions)---FAILED refused to install on HD
Pink Tie Linux---------FAILED Graphics so far out of whack it was uninstallable
Darkstar Linux--------FAILED went on.. wouldn't boot
Ubuntu----------------FAILED Graphics all messed up
Kubuntu---------------FAILED ' ' ' ' ' '
Mandrake--------------FAILED ' ' ' ' '
etc.------------------FAILED ' ' ' ' ' ' '


Slackware 10.2--------SUCCESS Flawless (after I reburned install media.)

Why this is, I have no idea. But, if it wasn'r for Slackware, I would not be using Linux at all on this box.

-Joe
joegumbo, I could give a similar list and point to the success of Slackware-based distributions on my eMachines system. But in my case it's not the system because the only way most others failed was in setting up my network. The problem is the DSL modem from the local phone company and that's the only high-speed option where I live, except for satellite. I tried virtually every distro in distrowatch's top 20.

Debian-based distros as a class - forget it, no network access. I tried Debian, PCLinuxOS, Mepis, U/Kubuntu.
Xandros - no network.
Arch - no network.
Fedora Core 3 mysteriously accessed the drive too often for my taste.
*BSDs - no network.

For some reason, though, SUSE and Slackware-based distros work on my system flawlessly.

VectorLinux worked great.
Slackware worked great.
Zenwalk Live works great.
Zenwalk is currently working wonderfully.

Slackware and its derivatives are simply better at detecting network hardware / "Winmodems."
 
Old 10-09-2006, 08:29 AM   #66
hitest
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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Prince Rupert, B.C., Canada
Distribution: Slackware, OpenBSD
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Rep: Reputation: 548Reputation: 548Reputation: 548Reputation: 548Reputation: 548Reputation: 548
I run older hardware, so Slackware is perfect for my needs. Slackware runs very fast out of the box.
 
Old 10-09-2006, 10:56 AM   #67
danieldk
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Registered: Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunric
A pain ? It's a very subjective and questionable statement. Yes, it would be nice if installer would support ftp install but Slackware's package management don't directly support remote installs and due to minimalistic approach the 1st CD contains almost a complete system so it won't save too much like at Debian f.E.
It depends on the situation. There are enough servers machines without optical drives. Yeah, with some creativity, it is always possible to install Slackware. But why not provide such relatively simple feature? Some BSDs fit this on two 1.44MB floppies. The initial CentOS disk for netinstalls is about 10MB. It doesn't really add bloat, and helps many users.

Quote:
Why one would do that ? If you deploy Slack without a check if it offers required important (and complex) software, you've made a wrong decision in the beginnig and that's not a distro's fault but yours.
True. But the years of the simple LAMP servers are mostly over. Applications *do* require a plenthora of Perl modules or a bunch of Java class libraries. The world has changed. As such, Slackware is less relevant as a general purpose operating system than it was 6 or 8 years ago. The tagline on the back of the CD sets is not pretty relevant anymore "Slackware Linux provides new and experienced users with full-featured system, equipped to serve in any capacity, from desktop workstation to machine-room server". That's a pretty bold claim. Yeah, it can possibly run on some "machine-room server", but it is not equipped to do anything particular useful.

As I said, Slackware is a good system. I really liked it as a tool that can be used virtually everywhere (from desktop to server). But that has changed.

Quote:
Yes, Slackware package base is relatively limited from the quantity point of view, but if it'll satisfy customer's or my requirements what's wrong with that ? If MTA is asked and there is no special and/or reasonable demand for Postfix why Sendmail couldn't be used ? It is valid for other apps too (MySQL/PSQL, Apache 1.x/Apache 2.x etc).
Heh, more than half of the customers have existing databases, code, etc. Some part of the othe half wants modern web applications, and you'll have to add *a lot* to support that in Slackware. Or do you write your own templating systems, O/R mappers, SOAP functionality, etc. for every job?

Quote:
I don't know what does mean word "enterprise" in binding with Linux to you but in praxis you'll met RHEL or Novell's SLE 99% of times - distros with paid full support backgrounded by a big commercial company, with certified support of Enterprise software vendors like Oracle. Not the case of Debian or CentOS.
Actually. I am based in Europe, and Debian has a lot of presence here. (I personally prefer RHEL/CentOS).

Quote:
Sorry but that's a plain BS. Can you somehow support such claim ? I've built many routers and in my experience minimal base system of FBSD, NetBSD or even OpenBSD is much more bloated then f.E. Slackware's.
Right . You can easily squeeze a NetBSD system in 5MB disk space with dynamic binaries. Heck, NetBSD libc is 1MB. Have fun squeezing Slackware Linux in such amounts of space. Yeah, you can do it with blackbox, but blackbox is not Slackware, or by statically linking stuff. But you'll probably not get near these sizes without busybox.

This describes some approaches:
http://www.yazzy.org/docs/NetBSD/netbsd-on-cf.txt

Quote:
In addition this "base" system is installed without a use of some package management, so there are no installation records for later manipulation like additional software removal.
There is, and it is called 'syspkgs' it is not on by default now. But you can rebuild NetBSD with syspkgs, and use package tools to work on the base system.
 
Old 10-09-2006, 12:35 PM   #68
dunric
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Registered: Jul 2004
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 462

Rep: Reputation: 77
to danieldk:

I'd agree in many points with you.
Only I don't see Slackware's goal as the all-task-covering/all-purpose distribution. It may be suitable for standalone servers, simple desktops/workstations and routers while not straying from pure and proven unix concepts and keeping prestigious reliability. If I'd have to maintain incosiderable amount of custom packages for a specific task, I'd consider it twice to choose Slackware, although I like its concept the most. For example my "limit" for an Imap/Smtp server is to keep up-to-date Clamav, SpamAssassin, Spamass-milter and bunch of less then 10 Perl modules.

Concerning building of a minimal system I've thought about standard ways by using default installation tool and package management, not about such hacks When you also selectively pick up libraries from glibc-solibs (libc, libutil and libm covers most of dependencies and are total of 1,33 MiB - ver. 2.3.6), use minimalistic shell as ash (0,09 MiB) and custom kernel (~ 1 MiB) and some stripped down utilities, you may get a very small system without hacking with busybox or even dietlibc. Getting Slack on 32MiB CFlash is troublefree if you know what you are doing.
 
Old 10-09-2006, 09:28 PM   #69
Stik
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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Everett, WA
Distribution: Slackware / Dropline Gnome
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Rep: Reputation: 15
I don't know why I use Slackware.. Pat V and his little lemmings constantly piss me off to no end.
They don't ever seem to have a mind of their own. What Pat V says seems to be law. For some reason
though, after a year or so of bouncing around from distro to distro, I always found myself back to using
Slackware. Yes it may be lacking in many areas but that is how it was created, leaving it to the user to
customise it to his/her own needs. Do I like the philosophies of it's creator or some of its users? No I
don't, but I do respect the work he and others put into creating it. It takes minutes to install unlike most
others, I don't have to go through a bunch of B.S. installing dev tools and headers to compile a simple
program like some others, I don't end up with a super bloated desktop that runs slow as hell like
some others, and last but not least, I don't have 3/4 of my system replaced when using apt to upgrade
a non distro supported package. I like the fact I can install a .tgz and if it don't run, I can find the few
things it may be whining about and upgrade/install them and go although I usually just end up creating
my own packages that I may use later on should the need arise to do a reinstall. One of the things I
"REALLY" like is the fact that if one actually takes time to read some of the config files in /etc, alot of
it is preconfigured for you. You just find what it is that you need, uncomment it, and go.

I guess I could go on and on but I think that gives a few reasons I prefer using Slackware over others.
If there was another Slackware type o/s that was as simple and clean I would probably use it since like
I stated before that I don't tend to agree with some of the knucklehead B.S. that it's maintainer does, but
looking past that, for the most part, he and his buddies do great work and until something does show up
I will continue to use Slack.
 
  


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