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Old 01-12-2013, 12:33 AM   #31
fogpipe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxpokernut View Post
No, it has KDE.
Good point
 
Old 01-12-2013, 01:17 AM   #32
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzilla View Post
@kikinovak: Is the illustration on the cover of "Linux aux petits oignons" by Ayo73? He has pretty recognizable style. I used to use his wallpapers extensively in 2005/2006.

@all: sorry for offtopic.
Yes, indeed. Ayo73 (Alexis Younès) works for Eyrolles, my editor. I also like what he does, and when I asked specifically about a cooking penguin (since it's a "cookbook"-style book), I was very pleased with the results.

BTW: I'm currently very busy working on the Slackware edition of the book. Guess I'll have finished it before summer, if everything goes well.
 
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:17 AM   #33
sahko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmccue View Post
There is a patch (blogspot.com) to correct the issue. Anyway I think it is a nice decent small X front end to gdb for c programing
Not sure how good it is for other languages though.

John
Notice the "still" in the article title though. If memory serves me well xxgdb has been behaving that way at least since pre 13.37 but apparently noone noticed.
I can only think of three reasons why: a) noone bothered reporting it b) noone bothered fixing it or c) noone uses it.
Anyway, xxgdb is just an example here.
 
Old 01-12-2013, 06:21 AM   #34
tallship
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyTrotter View Post
I will immediately
su -
rm -rf
apt get install ubuntu
or maybe click the mouse 1000 times to install win8
This nearly 65 year old TRS-80 user certainly does not want to be stuck in the 90's


john
Careful there with the wYNd0z3 John, you might end up with carpel tunnel from all that clicking
 
Old 01-12-2013, 06:51 AM   #35
smoooth103
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OMG UNIX is stuck in the 70's - it still uses a file system!
-- iOS user
 
Old 01-17-2013, 04:01 PM   #36
foodown
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Am I the only one who keeps flashing the opening of Portlandia, S01E01?

"The dream of the '90s is aliiiiiive, in Slackware ..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVmq9dq6Nsg
"It's like the Bush administration never even happened."

Last edited by foodown; 01-17-2013 at 04:19 PM. Reason: EDIT: all the hot chicks wear glasses
 
Old 01-17-2013, 04:50 PM   #37
kikinovak
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Couldn't help it.

Quote:
The point is often made that Slackware is an "amateur" distro (project website hosted on smartphone perpetually low on battery, sole distribution maintainer regularly crossing highways in front of buses for relaxing, community members eating little kids for breakfast) in opposition to "professional" distributions (RHEL, Oracle, SLES and similar distributions driving airports, moon missions and nuclear plants).

Let's not forget that Noah's Ark was built by amateurs, while the Titanic was a professional project.
 
Old 01-18-2013, 02:49 AM   #38
jhw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikinovak View Post
Couldn't help it.




Geez! I almost spilled my coffe over my screen

Sole developer crossing in front of busses for relaxation ... genius!
 
Old 01-20-2013, 12:40 PM   #39
rabirk
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As a newcomer to Linux and to Slackware, I found that kikinovak was much less respectful and more off-base than caitlyn in the LXer comments. I don't really know what it is that fascinates me about Slackware. I think, in part, it's the learning curve. I want to understand how Linux works, and so running Slackware helps me apply some of my learning. I had been running Slackware on a "junk" laptop, just for the tinkering that caitlyn talked about. This morning I loaded it onto my good laptop, my System 76, but I dual-boot with Linux Mint, which was the OS I was using on the laptop before. Learning is great, but when I do want the laptop to "just work," it's nice to start up Linux Mint and have some confidence that it will. I *think* I have my Slackware system fairly well configured, with much thanks to the flash SlackBuilds and to alienbob's multilib notes, but I still can't play DVD movies on Slackware and can't figure out why not. In the rare event I'll want to watch a movie on my laptop, I know I'll be able to with Linux Mint.

I also agree with sahko's remarks. I noticed this week that Slackware has a pilot package that is used so the system can communicate with Palm Pilot devices. I'm wondering how many other anachronisms remain.

Yes, Slackware runs well, but it does require "tinkering" and know-how. It does not run beautifully "out of the box" like I've found Linux Mint and Mac systems do. It is not a distribution "to watch" in 2013 because it isn't the distribution that is going to make Windows and Apple users decide that Linux is a great alternative. Linux Mint might do that, and so might some of the distributions listed in the LXer article.

When thinking about which distribution to load onto a friend's netbook, which he would want to use just to quickly surf the internet, I didn't give Slackware much consideration. Instead, Peppermint Linux looked perfect. It comes with little more than Google Chrome and the ability to use Google Docs. He could start it up really quickly, do his completely flash-enabled web surfing, and not have to "tinker" or even know he was using Linux (though of course he would know it).

As things stand for me, my iMac is getting a bit old, at seven years or so. I really love the iTunes functionality. I can download movies, music, or TV shows on my iPad and they'll also seamlessly be loaded onto my iMac. I wish I could replace my iMac with a Linux system, but I don't think I can. Apple "just works," and works really well, even if there is a bit of a pay premium. I can buy a Mac Mini, hook it up to my TV, and watch or listen to my iTunes library with hardly no thought or time expenditure. I'm not sure anything in Linux works quite that well. Even the Amazon cloud services aren't extremely Linux friendly. If any particular Linux distribution is going to bridge those gaps, I really doubt it will be Slackware. This doesn't make Slackware a bad operating system. It certainly has its uses.

It also has it fans, and getting back to that back and forth with caitlyn, it seems to have some very devoted fans. So why isn't there more of a development base and effort going on? Why is there that "sole developer?" I'm not sure huge changes are needed, but it seems like the Slackware "fanboys" have more than enough love for Slackware and knowledge of it to make it more user-friendly from the get-go. I'm going to keep using Slackware until I find, like caitlyn evidently has, that there's too much extra work involved to make it worthwhile.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 01:27 PM   #40
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabirk View Post
It also has it fans, and getting back to that back and forth with caitlyn, it seems to have some very devoted fans. So why isn't there more of a development base and effort going on? Why is there that "sole developer?"
There is a lot of effort going on, see the SlackDocs project or SlackBuilds.org. There is only the "sole developer" (which is not quite true, there is a small team of chosen developers) because this sole developer invented Slackware and decided not to give up control. That is actually a good thing, this way Slackware does not loose focus on its main goals.

Quote:
I'm not sure huge changes are needed, but it seems like the Slackware "fanboys" have more than enough love for Slackware and knowledge of it to make it more user-friendly from the get-go.
And that is implying that Slackware would not be user-friendly. In fact it is, but it is not "newbie" friendly, as long as that newbie is not willing to do his homework. For the typical Slackware user Slackware works as intended and is as friendly as it could be. There is no change needed, just because it is already at the point where it is intended to be. It is all about choice: If you feel that Mint is the right OS for you, and there is nothing wrong with that, then by all means, use it. I feel that Slackware is the right choice for me, I don't want a distro like Mint on my systems and I don't want Slackware to become such a system. Like most Slackers. This is why most of us are not even trying to make Slackware more "user-friendly" (of course I mean "newbie" friendly here).

Two of your comparisons are a bit unfair here, I want to point that out:
1. Comparing Mint with Slackware with regard to pre-installed software for DVD playback. Other than Slackware, Mint's "headquarter" is not in the USA, but in Ireland. They simply don't have to care about software patents on codecs and other software needed to playback a DVD. So of course Slackware (like most other distros, even Ubuntu, which is similarly newbie-friendly as Mint) do not come with the ability to play DVDs out of the box. To change this Pat Volkerding would have to move to Ireland, which I would assume is unlikely to happen.

2. Comparing OS X with Slackware (and Linux in general) with regards to iTunes integration. Of course iTunes will always be much better integrated in an Apple environment than in an environment that is totally unsupported by Apple. But this is not Linux fault, it is Apple's fault, they have decided to not support Linux (one could think in fear of competition), so ask the next time in your Apple store why you can't use iTunes on Linux.

Regarding time needed to have a working system: If I make a fresh install of Slackware I need 2-3 hours to get the system installed and customized to my needs (I now have 67 packages installed additionally to the base system, but some of them are already marked for deletion in my list, since I don't use them anymore). After that I have a rock-stable system ready for my everyday work. The casual user, only surfing the web, doing some multimedia and maybe office stuff, will not nearly need this amount of packages and will also have a rock-stable system for everyday work. You don't have to tinker with Slackware, but you can, if you want.

From my experience Slackware is the most easy distribution if you want to tinker with it (straight forward and easy package format/management, as close to upstream as possible, adherence to Unix principles, ...), so at least by my definition Slackware is user-friendly. Very user-friendly, because it does not stand in my way if I want to try something.

Edit: I would like to add two links from the blog of fellow LQ member ruario, regarding Slackware and ease of use:
http://my.opera.com/ruario/blog/2011...x-distribution
http://my.opera.com/ruario/blog/2011...ncy-management

Last edited by TobiSGD; 01-26-2013 at 11:30 AM. Reason: added links, fixed typo
 
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:50 PM   #41
slacktroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabirk View Post
Long long long text
I guess, once you go slack, and you get to understand Slackware, there's really no going back to anything. Because the tinkering will give you so much understanding in other fields as well. And you will never go back, because you will understand that other things are just so wrong in the first place, and all the automation of things just gives you a headache in the long run.

I see more and more of these topics. But i guess 13 years of Slackware experience just made me a guru :-)

Perhaps you haven't been tinkering with things in Mint or Debian, but when something breaks in these it's hard to have knowledge of stuff never being done.

I guess it makes no sense to give you a scenario, you will probably come there yourself one day, and understand that things are so much more clean in slackware than what it is in anything else.

Nice having you atleast trying and i hope you get to develop your skills in understanding the concept.

Cheers :-)
 
Old 01-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #42
Poucket
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Smile

Quote:
I also agree with sahko's remarks. I noticed this week that Slackware has a pilot package that is used so the system can communicate with Palm Pilot devices. I'm wondering how many other anachronisms remain.
I am sorry, but deprecating Palm Pilots seems like overkill to me.
After all, they did work OOTB. Let's assume they do still.
 
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:51 PM   #43
foodown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabirk View Post
Slackware ... is not a distribution "to watch" in 2013 because it isn't the distribution that is going to make Windows and Apple users decide that Linux is a great alternative.
This comment highlights a gulf of conceptualization that I think we as a community will never bridge; It will always divide us.

If this is the deciding factor in whether or not a distribution is one "to watch in 2013," then we'd all better stop watching, because it will not happen, at least not en mass.

Linux is not and was never intended as a replacement for flowery little mincing consumer operating systems like those; It is intended as a replacement for UNIX. Distributions like Mint and Ubuntu are really great at achieving their aims of becoming a consumer desktop stand-in, but it's comparable to someone taking an F-350, lowering it, and putting ground effects and a body kit on there -- That's not what it is meant for, it's meant to do industrial heavy lifting. A big, powerful vehicle like that is also not really meant to be driven by someone who just got their license; It could be if that new driver is willing to pay close attention, but that's not the target audience.

In this sense, I find Slackware to be one of the most successful Linux distributions. It's very UNIX-like, perhaps the most UNIX-like in the "UNIX in the 1990s" sense: reliable, predictable, ready to be easily configured to whatever role, and intended for use by someone who knows what they are doing. You know where else you'll find programs that are "anachronisms?" Solaris, NetBSD, AIX ... You know, other real UNIX systems.

To the (seemingly endlessly growing) segment of Linux users who truly believe that the operating system's raison d'être is to be the ultimate drop-in Windows replacement for noobs, I guess most Slackware, Gentoo, BSD, and CentOS users along with myself will always seem hopelessly impossible to understand. So be it; such users should stick with Mint and Ubuntu anyway.
 
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:22 PM   #44
foodown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabirk View Post
I still can't play DVD movies on Slackware and can't figure out why not. In the rare event I'll want to watch a movie on my laptop, I know I'll be able to with Linux Mint.
libdvdcss
libdvdnav

Should cut down on the reboots.

Last edited by foodown; 01-20-2013 at 03:25 PM.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 05:01 PM   #45
AlleyTrotter
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Started using Slackware because I did not want to buy Windows 98.
The best computer decision I ever made except possibly when I bought my TRS-80 Model One

If you don't like Slackware or can't do the things you you want to do on Slack. You have three options
1. Spend more money
2. Take the time to learn.
3. Be a cry-baby
 
  


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