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Old 03-27-2013, 02:55 PM   #76
corp769
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Close enough
 
Old 03-27-2013, 06:43 PM   #77
mariostg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Did anyone else take forever to find out why their clock was wrong in Arch? Or did it only happen to me?
Holly cow. It's all coming back to me. I had that problem too!! I guess I can add that to the list as to why I left Arch. Systemd, installer gone, what if you are a while without updating, tone of the mods, the glibc upgrade and other that do not come to mind.

With Slackware I get the security notifications, look at it then gradually fine tune my install by either apply the security upgrade or uninstall the package and blacklist it. Easy to maintain.
 
Old 03-27-2013, 08:32 PM   #78
w1k0
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24 hours later (an explanation of an explanation)

Some of you may wonder why I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by w1k0 View Post
In such a case I lose and eXpander_ wins.
As it turns out, for each expert in any discipline there’s from 10 to 1,000,000 laymen. If it’s the expert in making hot dogs there are 10 laymen for each such an expert. If it’s the expert in the nuclear physics there are 1,000,000 laymen for each such an expert.

So in the democracy laymen always win and experts always lose. That’s the reason of the mediocre levels of politics, economy, culture, etc. in each democracy. Laymen always outvote expert. In the representative democracy laymen from the government represent laymen from the nation and pass an ignorant law in order to gain the votes of the laymen from the nation during the next election.

eXpander_ stated: “Hi, I like Windows”. For each Linux user there are 39 MS Windows users (see: here). The skills of the average MS Windows user are lower than the skills of the average Linux user. So the average Linux user is an expert in the comparison to the average MS Windows user. As a result in each voting Linux user lose with MS Windows users. (For each “Hi, I like Linux” statement there are 39 “Hi, I like MS Windows” statements.)
 
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:41 PM   #79
notsure
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LOL ^ good stuff
 
Old 03-28-2013, 01:34 AM   #80
kikinovak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozar View Post
I've always told myself that if Arch were to ever disappear, I'd return to Slackware.
Same here. The last time Arch disappeared after an update, I returned to Slackware.
 
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:55 AM   #81
piratesmack
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I like both honestly I could use either one.
I keep Slackware on my laptop because it is less work to maintain.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 02:34 AM   #82
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudgunner View Post
Sure, release a "minimalistic" install disc for those who want to build a system from the ground up, but give the rest of us lazy people a fairly complete install: common display drivers (and other drivers I guess, I never used it in-depth to know what else it's missing), X, a few DEs to choose from, a complete development environment for the most common languages, and programs that people commonly use on Linux (apache, samba, etc.). The only thing I don't install when I install Slackware is the KDE and Y series.
Then you miss the point of Arch. It, like every other distro, is designed to meet the needs and preferences of a target demographic. If Arch, Slackware, Debian and Gentoo were the same, there would be no need to have all of them. Arch is not meant for "the lazy people who want fairly a complete install."

Quote:
In this day and age, with cheap storage space and the ability to control your computer, the only reason you would need a minimal install is if you are working on an embedded system and storage space is prime real estate. (Or if you are using it on a exceptionally old computer).
? ? ?
For most people who do not like bloat, it has nothing to do with storage space. Bloated systems are slow and need tremendous amounts of RAM and CPU power. Compare KDE with XFCE and you will know why some people prefer a simpler system. My storage space can be put to better use than being occupied with applications I neither need nor want. Such as storing my files.

Last edited by Randicus Draco Albus; 03-28-2013 at 02:35 AM.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 04:41 AM   #83
jv2112
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Arch -- New Software -- Stable -- Many options :-)
 
Old 03-28-2013, 06:47 AM   #84
paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratesmack View Post
I like both honestly I could use either one.
I keep Slackware on my laptop because it is less work to maintain.
That is true, Slackware is simple, and does not need a lot of work to maintain, when you compare with another distro like Fedora, or even other one, it is an advantage.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 06:53 AM   #85
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
For most people who do not like bloat, it has nothing to do with storage space. Bloated systems are slow and need tremendous amounts of RAM and CPU power. Compare KDE with XFCE and you will know why some people prefer a simpler system. My storage space can be put to better use than being occupied with applications I neither need nor want. Such as storing my files.
I believe he was referring specifically to Slackware - but could be wrong. Slackware is designed as a complete system, so if you do a full install (as is recommended), you're only really taking up storage space. Unlike other distros slackware doesn't just enable all of the daemons for the installed packages - distros like 'buntu and Debian do, as they assume that as you've installed it that's what you want - whether that's correct or not, even for those distros, is a whole new thread.
 
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:55 AM   #86
cmyster
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I tried Arch a few years back, but it was very close to slack, just with a dep management. I tried to install it a few months ago and the experience is very different now-days with me needing to approve all sorts of self signed non-sense that I did not want to mess around with.
There is a limit to how good a bleeding edge system can be, and Arch is too bloody for me, especially as in some cases it destroyed my OS beyond repair. At least slack does it in a more sane way and I'm pleased with current most times.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 09:37 AM   #87
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
For most people who do not like bloat, it has nothing to do with storage space. Bloated systems are slow and need tremendous amounts of RAM and CPU power. Compare KDE with XFCE and you will know why some people prefer a simpler system. My storage space can be put to better use than being occupied with applications I neither need nor want. Such as storing my files.
EDIT: caravel has already said this more succinctly above it seems but here are my thoughts nonetheless.

What you have failed to take into account is that on distros like Arch and Slackware services and deamons are not enabled automagically immediately after install by the post install scripts within the package, unlike the majority of other distros. Therefore a full install of Slackware running under a light weight WM like Fluxbox will typically run every bit as fast as a stripped down minimal Slackware install running Fluxbox. The full install will only be slowed if large numbers of the services that were shipped with it are actually manually enabled by the user. Don't always assume your experience here from other types of distros will mean the same for Arch and Slackware users.

As to the space argument. The last time I checked a full install of Slackware is around the 7Gb mark. Personally I have multimedia files approaching that size, so in relative (modern) terms it is nothing. We are not still living in the 90s. You can buy a fairly decent 500Gb disk from Amazon.com for around the $50 mark, which makes the cost of 7Gb about 70 cents (granted there will be some fluctuation depending on where you live and who you buy from but you get the idea). Given that time is money it is generally not worth my time to strip down an install for a reasonably modern PC or laptop. If I run low on disk space, rather than try to cut bits and pieces of the OS it'll be cheaper for me in the long run to invest in a bigger disk drive.

This doesn't always hold true of course, for some types of devices it is not straightforward to add cheap storage and if you are hosting, extra storage usually incurs an increase in the monthly cost, so I am certainly not saying that there is never any value in stripping down an install but people should not simply dismiss the value of a full install (for a desktop/laptop configuration). A full install can be very convenient. If I want to try some program or utility at some point in the future I quite often find it is already there, negating the need to search via the package manager and then install it. This is particularly nice when installing an application would have pulled down hundreds of Mbs of extra dependencies. I might not care about some used disk space but I do care about wasting my networking connection if I am in the middle of using it or I am on a slow network.

Last edited by ruario; 03-28-2013 at 09:40 AM.
 
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:00 AM   #88
Bindestreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w1k0 View Post
It’s a pity because it seems that MS Windows doesn’t like you.
Yes, it does, as long as I pay with money.

Last edited by Bindestreck; 03-28-2013 at 11:05 AM.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 12:25 PM   #89
w1k0
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Join WW

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXpander_ View Post
Yes, it does, as long as I pay with money.
So don’t pay. Don’t buy the machines with MS Windows but with Linux. Or pay even less and buy high class second hand machines without MS Windows such as IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads (I do that).

If you’re MS Windows addicted person try to release yourself from that addiction. Join WW (Windows Wines). The abbreviation WW takes as a model the abbreviation AA (Alcoholics Anonymous).

MS Windows dislikes you so start to dislike MS Windows. It’s easy. You should merely install some Linux system on the partition including MS Windows or replace in the VirtualBox MS Windows with some Linux system.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 03:14 PM   #90
Bindestreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w1k0 View Post
So don’t pay. Don’t buy the machines with MS Windows but with Linux. Or pay even less and buy high class second hand machines without MS Windows such as IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads (I do that).

If you’re MS Windows addicted person try to release yourself from that addiction. Join WW (Windows Wines). The abbreviation WW takes as a model the abbreviation AA (Alcoholics Anonymous).

MS Windows dislikes you so start to dislike MS Windows. It’s easy. You should merely install some Linux system on the partition including MS Windows or replace in the VirtualBox MS Windows with some Linux system.
Nah, I only use Windows cause most games that I play uses DirectX and I just bought a 3D Monitor and 3D Vision is sadly not yet supported for GNU/Linux.

*EDIT: Btw, I was not serious with my first post in this thread.

Last edited by Bindestreck; 03-28-2013 at 03:22 PM.
 
  


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