LinuxQuestions.org
Latest LQ Deal: Latest LQ Deals
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware
User Name
Password
Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 06-14-2015, 12:39 AM   #346
travis82
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2014
Distribution: Bedrock
Posts: 437

Rep: Reputation: 231Reputation: 231Reputation: 231

Dear Didier
it's my pleasure to contribute to your great project and translate Slackware installer and scripts in persian language (trust me, my english to persian translation is not as bad as persian to english). but I don't have enough technical background in linux and don't have enough time to learn it. nowadays I am working on my thesis but maybe my brain can handle a nice step by step guide to involve my further translations in SLINT.
 
Old 06-14-2015, 05:18 AM   #347
Didier Spaier
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slint64-15.0
Posts: 11,044

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
H travis82,

Thanks for willing to help. I hope that following pointers can provide you and other people with similar questions some guidance. But if these links are not really what you are looking for, just tell what you miss.

For a general introduction see Internationalization and localization of shell scripts and especially the Practical recommendations for translators.

You will find more specific information about translation in the SLINT project in our website in the pages Contribute and Tools.

It can help to see the genuine messages (to be translated) in English in their context. All internationalized scripts (and some other files used for building the Slint installers) are gathered in the same directory, for instance for version 14.1 (64-bit) in http://slint.fr/slint/data/64-14.1/source/. The messages to be translated are output of gettext or eval_gettext commands.

Don't be frightened by that huge amount of information: actually just reading the pages Contribute and Tools should suffice to get you started.

About Persian, if/when the translation is started we'll have to answer a few questions, as which locale to use (on Slackware I see no UTF-8 encoded locale definitions for language "fa"), which keymap, bitmap font and how to deal with right to left writing in the console and using the dialog program. Any ideas/experience in these matters are welcome.

PS Or maybe you would prefer to translate to Old Persian

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 06-14-2015 at 05:50 AM.
 
Old 06-14-2015, 07:30 AM   #348
dansimon
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Norway
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 60

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Maybe I can help

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis82 View Post
Dear Didier
it's my pleasure to contribute to your great project and translate Slackware installer and scripts in persian language (trust me, my english to persian translation is not as bad as persian to english). but I don't have enough technical background in linux and don't have enough time to learn it. nowadays I am working on my thesis but maybe my brain can handle a nice step by step guide to involve my further translations in SLINT.
Hi, perhaps I can be of assistance. I am currently learning Persian as a hobby (my native language is Norwegian and I speak English quite fluently as well). My Persian skills are currently very poor, but I know Linux and Slackware well. Maybe I can assist you on the technical end, trough email (dansimon at radiotube dot org), and help with basic spell checking and such.

Send me an email if you are interested
 
Old 06-15-2015, 03:28 AM   #349
travis82
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2014
Distribution: Bedrock
Posts: 437

Rep: Reputation: 231Reputation: 231Reputation: 231
Thanks Didier

I will read and try to learn your mentioned documents. please forgive me if you see any kind of lag in contribution.

PS your information about Iran and its history is great my friend.

@dansimon
it is so cool. maybe I can leave technical aspects to you and focus on translation. so I will be your assistant and will send you an email.

Last edited by travis82; 06-15-2015 at 03:58 AM.
 
Old 06-20-2015, 10:12 AM   #350
dansimon
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Norway
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 60

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
The Norwegian translation is nearing completion, I expect it will be done in just a few days. The translation needs an
independent reviewer though, so I thought id ask:

Are there any Norwegian Slackware/Linux users here that want to help out?
(PS! Reviewers only need to spell check and such.. it's not a very hard job)
 
Old 06-21-2015, 07:25 AM   #351
Darth Vader
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2008
Location: Romania
Distribution: DARKSTAR Linux 2008.1
Posts: 2,727

Rep: Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247Reputation: 1247
@Didier

I have some good news: I managed to find a new translator for you. Yep, I talk about EN/RO.
Also, i have some bad news: that guy have time to do it, around Month #8 C.A.D. (August).
 
Old 06-21-2015, 10:18 AM   #352
Didier Spaier
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slint64-15.0
Posts: 11,044

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
@Didier

I have some good news: I managed to find a new translator for you. Yep, I talk about EN/RO.
Thanks in advance! That would make me really happy as Romanian was the native language of one of my grand fathers, Albert Spaier, a French philosopher born in Iaşi.

Quote:
Also, i have some bad news: that guy have time to do it, around Month #8 C.A.D. (August).
That's not a problem, we can wait. We will integrate the translation as soon as it will have been completed and reviewed.

By the way, I will provide updated installers as soon as the Norwegian translation of the big Slint file will have been reviewed, that will also include a pending update (to German IIRC).

Also, thanks and welcome on board Slint to travis82, who will do the translation to Persian, and thanks to Dan-Simon who will help him for technical matters.

We have found bitmap fonts including the needed glyphs for the Linux console, without (size 8x16 pixels) and with (10x21 pixels) usage of a frame buffer, and will also use DejaVuSans Mono as scalable font whenever possible, as we do for all other languages so far. At time of writing there is still an open issue for translating messages that include both English (LTR) and Persian (RTL) words on the same line, but I hope that we will be be able to sort that out soon. That would also pave the way to include translations to other languages using the Arabic alphabet.

Have fun!

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 06-26-2015 at 04:44 AM. Reason: corrected font sizes for with vs without frame buffer
 
Old 06-26-2015, 03:02 AM   #353
Didier Spaier
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slint64-15.0
Posts: 11,044

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Nå Slint snakker norsk.

I just uploaded a Slint package and two Slint installers (version 14.1, 32 and 64-bit) that speak Norwegian in http://slint.fr/testing/, to help review Dan-Simon's translation in its context.

The ISO images are hybrid so you can put them on an USB stick as stated in http://slint.fr/en/installer.html.

You can install the package in your Slackware to test the included scripts in Norwegian, see http://slint.fr/en/package.html.

The Norwegian translations of the man pages are not yet included.

Have fun!

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 06-26-2015 at 03:03 AM.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 03:21 AM   #354
travis82
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2014
Distribution: Bedrock
Posts: 437

Rep: Reputation: 231Reputation: 231Reputation: 231
Dear Didier

Do you have a plan for integrating PV "mail"s in Slint project? I think they provide nice brief guide for new users and worthwhile to be translated.

Another question: is it possible to translate slackdesks of all Slint packages using some text editors?
 
Old 07-12-2015, 04:26 PM   #355
Didier Spaier
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slint64-15.0
Posts: 11,044

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Hi Hosein, thanks for your input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis82 View Post
Do you have a plan for integrating PV "mail"s in Slint project? I think they provide nice brief guide for new users and worthwhile to be translated.
No plan yet. I of course agree that this mail provides useful information that would be worthwhile to be translated.

I am not familiar with the mail program and don't know if there are caveats using a different encoding than 7bit in Slackware's context, but that can be checked.

In any case we should make sure all line are less than 80 characters long (all but one in the genuine mail are at most 73 characters long).

Also, I assume that we should request authorization from PV and append the name of the translator.

Another possibility would be to just contribute translations of this mail to SlackDocs.

Thoughts of readers of this thread are welcome.

Quote:
Another question: is it possible to translate slackdescs of all Slint packages using some text editors?
Technically probably, we would just have to check that that works in arget languages.

That would be a huge work though, and I don't think that can be really useful without rebuilding the packages for each language. But I don't really like the idea of providing different versions of a package just for that.

But maybe we could consider other possibilities, like providing a short description of each of the main application separately that would be up to each translation team to supply or not, possibly on SlackDocs.

Here also, all ideas are welcome.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 07-14-2015 at 01:54 PM.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 01:52 AM   #356
travis82
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2014
Distribution: Bedrock
Posts: 437

Rep: Reputation: 231Reputation: 231Reputation: 231
Quote:
No plan yet. I of course agree that this mail provides useful information that would be worthwhile to be translated.

I am not familiar with the mail program and don't know if there are caveats using a different encoding than 7bit in Slackware's context, but that can be checked.

In any case we should make sure all line are less than 80 characters long (all but one in the genuine mail are at most 73 characters long).

Also, I assume that we should request authorization from PV and append the name of the translator.
Yesterday I tested the possibility of PV mail translation. I translated mail file in /var/mail/spool directory and edited it with Leafpad. Now, mail command shows my translation in mlterm so beautiful. Hence, if kmscon works for Persian language, you just need to replace translated file with original one in Slint. Meanwhile, your volunteers for LTR language can do same works if they want. I think same method can be performed for Slackware specific scripts (something like Niki has done for lang.sh).
We don't need to append translator names in mails. These are Pat words, we just translate them, same as man pages.

Last edited by travis82; 07-15-2015 at 01:56 AM.
 
Old 07-18-2015, 10:14 AM   #357
Didier Spaier
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slint64-15.0
Posts: 11,044

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I look forward to see your translation of this mail, to check how it's rendered using various applications, including those already shipped in Slackware.

Appending the translator's name would just help to know to whom complain in case of a mistake in the translation, like a typo or a discrepancy with the genuine text.

Anyhow I have another suggestion, that would be to ship the translation file in /usr/doc/slint/<language>, e.g. /usr/doc/slint/fa/WelcomeMail. I don't know how to write WecomeMail in Persian, sorry We could do something like that for any other translated document that a translation team would like to have shipped. The same documents could also be included in the DVD ISO itself, e.g. in /Slint_Documentation/<language>.

About the issue of RTL vs LTR in translations of man pages: maybe converting the man page to DocBook format then back to man (roff) format can help. I have gathered stuff to do and test that, please see in http://slint.fr/testing/man.
 
Old 12-03-2015, 05:44 PM   #358
Didier Spaier
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slint64-15.0
Posts: 11,044

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
New and updated packages are available here: http://slint.fr/packages:
  • Slint packages for versions 13.37, 14.0 and 14.1
  • Extra packages for version 14.1 only.
The Slint packages contain, in addition to previous shipments:
  • Manual pages for scripts in pkgtools and slackpkg in Norwegian and Persian, thanks to Dan-Simon Myrland (dansimon) and Hosein Sadeqzade (travis82).
  • A small script /usr/bin/bidiman to save some typing when displaying man pages including bidirectional text, like a mix of English and Persian.
  • In /usr/doc/slint*/persian, a manual in English and Persian.
  • An updated localized timeconfig script.
The extra packages are:
  • bicon (Bidirectional console) to help properly display bidi texts
  • brltty (daemon to display the screens's content on a Braille display or terminal and associated API)
  • fbterm (FrameBuffer Terminal)
  • mlterm (MultiLingual terminal, by far the best to properly display bidi text)
I plan to release updated installers in a few weeks. In addition to the content of the updated slint packages they will ship the complete Norwegian translations.

I will also prepare packages including localized scripts that will replace their Slackware counterparts, instead of gathering all localized scripts in one package. For instance pkgtools-14.2-noarch-1_slint will ship localized scripts instead of English only ones. In addition, one or two packages will gather the translated man pages.

All packages will bear the tag _slint to ease their management, including with tools like slackpkg+ or slapt-get.

That's for today. What for tomorrow? This question must be answered as it is now clear that the internationalized installer will not be shipped in Slackware.

We could provide, beginning with Slint 14.2:
  • A distribution called Slint, very close to Slackware, but with the polyglot installer and additional packages, one or two pre-configured package managers, and other tools found in other distributions compatible with Slackware.
  • A polyglot installer that could be also proposed, with modifications as need be, to other distributions based on Slackware.
  • Packages usable on all compatible distributions (with at least the same package structure, and the exact same versions of libraries in case of binaries).
All this would allow us to:
  • Make that the investment of our translators be fruitful.
  • Increase the accessibility of Slackware and of the software it provides, to a broader audience.
  • Increase the synergy between the distributions and projects inside SlackLand.
Of course, reactions, feedback and suggestions are welcome here and in our mailing-list.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-05-2015 at 03:48 AM.
 
Old 12-05-2015, 12:32 AM   #359
travis82
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2014
Distribution: Bedrock
Posts: 437

Rep: Reputation: 231Reputation: 231Reputation: 231
I really appreciate your efforts. I am the only one who knows how much works you did to integrate RTL languages to Slint.
Whatever decision be made about future of Slint, you can count on me for Persian translation. However, personally I prefer Slint as a polyglot variant of genuine Slackware with minimum change and modification which are necessary for such purpose.
 
Old 12-05-2015, 01:47 AM   #360
Didier Spaier
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slint64-15.0
Posts: 11,044

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Our efforts were not successful enough to bring a full support of complex scripts and bidirectional texts, e.g. bidirectional display is not available yet in ncurses, hence for dialog, and not fully satisfactory in frame buffers. Only under X we can find applications that fully implement the Unicode bidirectional algorithm, like browsers[1] (for instance Firefox, Chromium), word processors (LibreOffice) or a terminal (mlterm).

For that reason we had to postpone the translation to Persian of the shell scripts that make use of dialog, including the installer itself.

Elaborate about the current support of complex scripts and bidi texts in Slint and the perspectives of evolution would be too long (and probably boring for many) here, so that will be the topic of an article in SlackDocs or elsewhere.

[1]For instance you can compare the display of the web page "Introducing JSON" in English and Farsi.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-05-2015 at 02:49 AM. Reason: Footnote added.
 
  


Reply

Tags
accessibility, blind, installation, internationalization, slackware


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[SOLVED] Questions about fbterm's usage in Slint or Slackware installer Didier Spaier Slackware 2 03-05-2014 05:09 PM
[SOLVED] [TESTERS WANTED] Slint installers for Slackware 14.1 => LAST CALL Didier Spaier Slackware 11 11-22-2013 06:22 AM
[ANN] slint (Slackware Internationalized) 14.1 beta is ready: please test Didier Spaier Slackware 0 09-19-2013 03:44 PM
The Slackware Internationalization Project Didier Spaier Slackware 62 04-26-2013 05:07 AM
Slackware, and internationalization t_maggot Slackware 2 12-06-2006 10:27 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration