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Old 06-07-2008, 12:51 PM   #31
H_TeXMeX_H
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<offtopic>

They should teach the basic concepts of using ANY word processor out there, because in that sense they are all very similar. Probably if you learn OpenOffice Writer or M$ Word, you'll know how to use the other without much difficulty. Some goes for say Lyx and Texmacs, etc. You shouldn't learn how to use a specific program, it'll do you no use. You should learn the concepts that can be applied to a larger group of programs.

That's what I hate about most computer courses, for example one I took recently about how to use Word and Powerpoint. In most cases they taught me where to find things in the menu, and the steps to get to different options. This was not useful. However, there was something that did help a lot, that would be the different ways to handle a problem, and the advantages of each, and that certain features exists, but are rarely used because they are obscure. There is actually a right way to do things in a word processor, and a wrong way. The wrong way will make you struggle to get what you want, the right way will not. Lyx and Texmacs have tried to stop this by making the right way the only way, but it doesn't always work.
 
Old 06-07-2008, 03:21 PM   #32
onebuck
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Hi,

If the instructor is fluent in the application and has good presentation methods then the course follows his/her methodology. Everyone handles problems differently. No matter what the semantics are but the syntax will dictate how you will perform the task within the application. There are cheat codes within most applications, it's the specialist that can bring most people to the awareness of how to implement these to the desired condition/output.

I've been to some system seminars that were really boring but when the presenter got into some intricacies that was when it got exciting. So some jewels do exist within those long hours of listening/following through someones presentation.
 
Old 06-07-2008, 04:00 PM   #33
lupinix
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My Review to 12.1:
Slackware 12.1 is in my opinion the best release of Slackware since its birth. Esspecially the support for kernel 2.6 is very well now (well, it was well at 12.0 too).
I think Slackware is one of the best distributions, because you are able to administrate your system only with an editor like elvis. Sometimes I test openSUSE and I saw, that Yast ist very inscrutable. The second part of the Slackware is, that the software is shipped unpatched, I have used Kubuntu, there KDE 3.5 was unstable, it crashed quite often. At Slackware it crashed only two times. Kubuntu patched KDE to death, something which would not happen at Slackware.
The last thing, I like at Slack: I love this Unix-Style. I'm using Slack since 11.0 and I had no better distribution since my change to Slack.

VERY BIG THANK YOU TO PAT AND THE SLACKWARE TEAM.

Best Regards
Christian
 
Old 06-09-2008, 02:27 PM   #34
digger95
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Caitlyn posted her final review of Slackware 12.1 yesterday.

http://news.oreilly.com/2008/06/slac...est-versi.html

Pretty much the same as the first except perhaps a bit more negative... or maybe just defensive. I figure she's entitled to her opinion and all, but I don't like that she appears to be actively discouraging people from using Slackware and a couple lines in particular kinda peeved me off:

Quote:
To me Slackware is a fantastic base on which to build a first rate distribution. It is not what I consider to be a good distribution in its own right... If you want your computer to "just work" then Slackware is certainly not for you. It's not a distribution I can recommend to most Linux users and it is one that I would actively discourage newcomers to Linux from trying unless they really and truly know what they are getting into.
Oh well.

Last edited by digger95; 06-09-2008 at 02:59 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2008, 08:12 PM   #35
dugan
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Such a long string of good comments and her first comment post accused people of "blindly going into Slackware defender mode." I stopped reading there.

Last edited by dugan; 06-09-2008 at 08:35 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2008, 09:33 PM   #36
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There is so much wrong with that new article it isn't funny. You would think the writer would do more research, but alas she didn't.
Quote:
I should also note that Slackware includes only one piece of non-free software: JRE.
Wrong. There are more non-free apps included, like xv.
Quote:
To have HAL correctly add and remove icons on my Xfce desktop I had to create the .hal-mtab file in /media. It wasn't done automatically as is the case in most distributions.
??
Quote:
Slackware does not include a display manager which allows you to choose your session at login unless you install KDE as part of the initial installation process.
What's XDM, anyway?
Quote:
Slackware 12.1 is the first release to include HAL support.
Really? I guess 12.0 was fake HAL then.
Quote:
There is only a tiny repository called "Extra" which contains things like international aspell libraries. There are no additional applications to speak of.
Absolutely correct. Bittorrent, ktorrent, GRUB, jdk, mpg123, parted...they're not REAL apps, anyway, right? (There aren't many apps included, but this could have been stated correctly instead of flat out lying)
Quote:
It's very easy to add a piece of software only to find it won't run due to some missing library.
You know, I've never had this problem. I usually just check the app's site to see what else I need to install. I guess I'm doing things incorrectly.
Quote:
Once you start adding software from third party sources this becomes particularly messy if you don't do your homework and track down all the dependencies on your own.
Correct. Because slackbuilds.org and slacky.eu, the two biggest (and most useful) repositories, ignoring linuxpackages.net, don't list dependencies, right?
Quote:
It's a recipe for dependency hell that's rarely seen on other major distributions in 2008.
She obviously doesn't know what dependency hell is. I will agree that with multimedia apps, especially video editing apps, it can be frustrating. Otherwise, however, it really isn't.
Quote:
Even advanced users will find Slackware time consuming to install and configure properly.
Takes me longer to install Ubuntu than Slackware, but OK.
Quote:
The fact that Slackware is largely developed and maintained by one person and offers no commercial support makes it inappropriate for the corporate or institutional server room.
Yeah, Slackware sucks with servers. It even had that openSSL bug and such, right?
Quote:
Nothing is made to be easy or user friendly.
I personally disagree with that -- if I know what I'm doing in Slackware, it will work 100% of the time. If I'm fiddling with a GUI in Ubuntu, it works 70% of the time. But I understand this point I guess if you're incapable of learning, or unwilling to.
Quote:
If you want your computer to "just work" then Slackware is certainly not for you.
Again, I disagree. Once set up, Slackware "just works". Once set up, Ubuntu etc. works -- but not as in Slackware. This is more subjective, so take it with a grain of salt. I much prefer OpenSUSE to *buntu, but even still I think AFTER setting everything up, Slackware "just works" at least as well as other distros.
 
Old 06-09-2008, 09:42 PM   #37
willysr
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another review article: http://www.linux.com/feature/136601
 
Old 06-09-2008, 10:16 PM   #38
dugan
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Of the people discussing her review on O'Reilly, she is the only one resorting to personal attacks. She's the one accusing people of not reading the article, equating their words with Microsoft FUD, telling them to get a clue, etc. In an earlier discussion, she told people who did figure out Slackware that they were not normal (of above average intelligence was what she said, but her meaning was clear). Not one person who disagreed with her has used these tactics.

Needless to say, I have not added her blog to my Google reader feeds.

Last edited by dugan; 06-09-2008 at 10:24 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2008, 10:37 PM   #39
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very nice post, T3slider! I had a nice laugh about it.

After seeing a couple of the posts about the article I decided not to bother even read it, but if all the quotes you listed are actually there then that article is clearly
r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s.

Of course it seems like every Linux distro has a group of users that like to bash another distro, and almost every Linux user likes to bash Windows. Add this to the internet where anyone can ramble about what is on their mind and you can end up with a lot of literary garbage.

I hope you linked to, or made a copy of, your above post on the comments section under the original article, T3lider.
 
Old 06-09-2008, 11:02 PM   #40
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
As a Linux professional I find I spend way too much time mucking about with things that are dirt simple and really no-brainers in other distributions. The fact that Slackware is largely developed and maintained by one person and offers no commercial support makes it inappropriate for the corporate or institutional server room.
A linux Professional? I wish she would define that. Maybe someone who uses Linux and is a professional mud wrestler, I mean slinger.

She doesn't have a clue! Slackware is used on a lot of servers. There are a lot of spin offs that use Slackware as a base for their OS of choice when working with servers. Easy to spin a distro within a corporate enterprise.

Quote:
Even advanced users will find Slackware time consuming to install and configure properly. The dependence on third party or upstream sources for packages for many if not most popular applications is troubling at best. The lack of a package management system with proper dependency checking is pretty much inexcusable in 2008. As a Linux professional I find I spend way too much time mucking about with things that are dirt simple and really no-brainers in other distributions. The fact that Slackware is largely developed and maintained by one person and offers no commercial support makes it inappropriate for the corporate or institutional server room.

Slackware remains Slackware. It's been around for a very long time and it has a very loyal following. It's an excellent choice for the Linux hobbyist who wants to build, configure, and tweak their system to the nth degree. Slackware certainly gives you absolute control over your system. Nothing is made to be easy or user friendly. If you want your computer to "just work" then Slackware is certainly not for you. It's not a distribution I can recommend to most Linux users and it is one that I would actively discourage newcomers to Linux from trying unless they really and truly know what they are getting into.
The above says it all! She doesn't know what she is talking about. I've waste too much time on her reviews.

It would be nice if Drew would write a review on Professional reviewers and their biased opinion. They really know how to spin!
 
Old 06-10-2008, 12:00 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowsnipes
I hope you linked to, or made a copy of, your above post on the comments section under the original article, T3lider.
I wasn't going to bother, but decided to repost my comments anyway (adding a bit for the uninformed because of my mostly sarcastic tone), along with a link to this thread. I was pretty rude, but fair I think -- though I'm not expecting a very polite reply.
 
Old 06-10-2008, 02:11 AM   #42
shadowsnipes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3slider View Post
I wasn't going to bother, but decided to repost my comments anyway (adding a bit for the uninformed because of my mostly sarcastic tone), along with a link to this thread. I was pretty rude, but fair I think -- though I'm not expecting a very polite reply.
I liked seeing these comments there, and Robby's comments are a nice addition as well.
 
Old 06-10-2008, 01:48 PM   #43
dugan
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Is O'Reilly paying her to tell people that their comments are "inane and ridiculous," and to accuse anyone who disagrees with her of being a cultist?
 
Old 06-10-2008, 02:33 PM   #44
brianL
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Do her opinions really matter? How much weight do they carry? Are people going to be put off trying Slackware after reading that review, given the already prevalent myth that Slackware is "difficult"? I knew nothing about the relative ease or otherwise of any distro when I first installed it. Wouldn't have taken any notice of any review, anyway. I've read enough subjective reviews of books and films to take all such reviews with a pinch of salt. But a lot of people seem to be more easily led.
 
Old 06-10-2008, 03:46 PM   #45
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The thing with all these reviews are that they don't mean squat .

If I were to write a review for Slackware, it would be stellar for Slackware users - because I use Slackware, and know about how to use and some-what administer Slackware. However - if I were to write a review for Suse, it would be pretty bad. I don't use Suse, I know nothing about Suse other than what Wikipedia states. Suse would ultimately fail.

Anyone who bases their choices off of a review, evidently doesn't have enough mental capacity to form their own decisions, and must only follow the opinions of what other people state.

The best, and IMHO, there has only been one valid review of Slackware recently. It was from a person that upgraded from 12.0 to 12.1. Valid because this reviewer knew Slackware, and how to do more than turn the power button on and use the mouse.

There are only 2 classes of Linux persons. Admins and Users. Users should never attempt to administer a system. Which appears to be the case here. A user is clearly lost in admin land.

Some of these users should just stick to *.ubuntu, if they're looking to point and click their way through an OS.

The comment about administering an enterprise with 10,000+ PCs, I'm calling BS. In this review, the reviewer clearly has issues operating one PC, I couldn't imagine entrusting this person with anything at all.
 
  


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