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Lufbery 09-28-2009 10:24 AM
Slackware officially adds KDE 3.5.10 to version 13?
 
All,

I've just been reading the latest Distro Watch Weekly and came across this:

Quote:
Slackware adds KDE 3.5 to repository, Debian announces two new package management systems, Ubuntu and Mandriva announce Moblin-based systems for netbooks, Fedora community launches Mini

Slackware Linux It seems the migration to KDE 4 is still hurting as distributions make the switch. Recently, the ever popular Slackware Linux reached version 13.0 and broke away from its previous mould by switching to the new desktop. It hasn't been as smooth as many were hoping, however, caused in part by the shipping of an older version 4.2.4 instead the 4.3 series. Unfortunately, this means that the 10,000 odd improvements made were not available in the new version of Slackware - a risky move for a desktop which has caused much controversy since its very first release. Last week, Patrick Volkerding released official packages of KDE 3.5.10 for Slackware Linux 13.0. While it's a welcome update for some, the future of the KDE 3 desktop on Slackware remains in question. Slackware will not be releasing any more updates to KDE 3, claiming that KDE 4 is the future, but some feel that it is still not on par with its predecessor. There are those who are trying to find a way to keep KDE 3 alive, but without support from the development team, is it just wishful thinking? Version 4 will undoubtedly become the greatest KDE desktop ever, but for some it's a slow road to success.
I can't read the link in the quote because blogs are blocked at my place of employment, but I haven't seen anything about this on Slackware.com or this forum.

What's the story?

Regards,

kukibl 09-28-2009 10:26 AM
Packages are located on mirrors in unsupported directory.

http://ftp.linux.cz/pub/linux/slackw...for-slack13.0/

More about topic in README file.

Lufbery 09-28-2009 10:32 AM
Ah ha!

Thanks Kukibl. I was looking for it under the /slackware64-13.0/extra/ directory of my favorite mirror. I didn't think to look under /unsupported. The fact that it's unsupported would also explain why there's no announcement on the the slackware.com website. Still, an announcement of some sort would have been helpful. Possibly in the changelog?

Thanks again,

GazL 09-28-2009 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufbery (Post 3699490)
I can't read the link in the quote because blogs are blocked at my place of employment, but I haven't seen anything about this on Slackware.com or this forum.

What's the story?
Basically, there isn't one. Just some blogger going "KDE4 isn't as configurable as 3.5.... waaaaaah waaaaaah waaaaaah!"

Lufbery 09-28-2009 11:45 AM
I've got two computers I need to update to Slackware 13 -- an older Pentium III laptop and a brand new Athalon 64 desktop. I'll probably update the laptop first because I'm the only one who uses it. I'll likely keep KDE 4 on it and learn my way around. Depending on how well that works, I can upgrade the Desktop with KDE 4 or (now, thanks to Pat et. al.) downgrade it to KDE 3.5 if my wife has trouble with KDE 4.

It's nice to have the options, so we'll see how it works out.

Regards,

Woodsman 09-28-2009 12:02 PM
Quote:
What's the story?
Basically, there isn't one. Just some blogger going "KDE4 isn't as configurable as 3.5
Hmm. I observe through the forum here that many people are unhappy with KDE 4.2.4. I observe that many wish 3.5.10 had been maintained concurrently for at least one Slackware release. Clear to me is that KDE 4.2.4 works well for some people and does not for others. My conclusion is that this one issue has splintered the Slackware community. To what degree I am unprepared to say. Yet I would say there is indeed a story here.

This issue is not about what is "right" or "wrong," but about choice. Most end-users are not skilled or qualifed to maintain something as complicated as the KDE software code. To be abandoned is bound to motivate a wide range fo emotions.

To mock the blog writer with a statement such as "waaaaaah waaaaaah waaaaaah!" is inappropriate.

cwizardone 09-28-2009 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufbery (Post 3699503)
Ah ha!
Thanks Kukibl. I was looking for it under the /slackware64-13.0/extra/ directory of my favorite mirror. I didn't think to look under /unsupported. The fact that it's unsupported would also explain why there's no announcement on the the slackware.com website. Still, an announcement of some sort would have been helpful. Possibly in the changelog?
Thanks again,
Which is exactly why I started the following thread:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...stion.-757500/

It would have saved me a lot of grief.

linuxpokernut 09-28-2009 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufbery (Post 3699584)
I've got two computers I need to update to Slackware 13 -- an older Pentium III laptop and a brand new Athalon 64 desktop. I'll probably update the laptop first because I'm the only one who uses it. I'll likely keep KDE 4 on it and learn my way around. Depending on how well that works, I can upgrade the Desktop with KDE 4 or (now, thanks to Pat et. al.) downgrade it to KDE 3.5 if my wife has trouble with KDE 4.

It's nice to have the options, so we'll see how it works out.

Regards,
Need to or want to? theres a huge difference?

Lufbery 09-28-2009 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxpokernut (Post 3699608)
Need to or want to? theres a huge difference?
I don't understand what you're saying.

Lufbery 09-28-2009 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone (Post 3699606)
Which is exactly why I started the following thread:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...stion.-757500/

It would have saved me a lot of grief.
Agreed. Usually the changelog has the best info, but a sticky thread for important announcements is a good idea.

Regards,

mattydee 09-28-2009 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL (Post 3699513)
Basically, there isn't one. Just some blogger going "KDE4 isn't as configurable as 3.5.... waaaaaah waaaaaah waaaaaah!"
Just another one in denial: "Everything is fine. All those dissatisfied people are just whiners. Everything is fine. Everything is fine."

BrZ 09-28-2009 03:44 PM
I saw this release as a gentle 'gift' to us. I have a feeling that (the not so old) 4.2.4 seems like a smart choice as there are more changes than those 10.000 improvements being made... KDE will mature and some time 4.3 will hit current. With all background indexing turned off, KDE 4.2.4 is being fast with little memory/processor consume.

XFCE was nicely packed, have a cool composite, is damn fast and resource friendly. If you like taskbar & startmenu, XFCE can be very functional and customized a lot. Go to rlworkman's repository and grab a few goodies to add new functionalities.

We have kde3 compat libs and now the whole 3.5.10. Why put more pressure? Just relax and let the 'crew' have some rest.

brianL 09-28-2009 03:52 PM
Only 10000 improvements? So few?? Hardly worth bothering with. :rolleyes:

easuter 09-28-2009 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattydee (Post 3699764)
Just another one in denial: "Everything is fine. All those dissatisfied people are just whiners. Everything is fine. Everything is fine."
You are labeled whiners because despite being repeatedly linked to pre-built KDE 3.5 packages and their SlackBuilds, you are still throwing your toys out of the pram.

We get it, you won't touch KDE 4 with a barge pole. Just install KDE 3.5 already!

GazL 09-28-2009 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman (Post 3699603)
To mock the blog writer with a statement such as "waaaaaah waaaaaah waaaaaah!" is inappropriate.
I guess I just reacted badly to a blog post that presented no significant points of argument or evidence and merely resorted to the generalised bemoaning of a supposed "lack of options/configurability/features" in KDE4.

The author may very well have had valid arguments against KDE4. Unfortunately, he didn't bother to present any of them to his readers. "Waaaaaah Waaaaaaah" may have been a bit childish, but it captures the tone of that blogpost quite well.

Franklin 09-28-2009 05:25 PM
A quote frome Pat from the README in the KDE directory for these unsupported packages:

Quote:
Hello folks!

Here is a set of KDE-3.5.10 packages for Slackware 13.0, both 32-bit
and 64-bit. Please note that upstream has discontinued support for KDE3.
There will be no further KDE3 updates for Slackware... this is it.
Furthermore, these package will probably not remain up for FTP once they
no longer work on the latest stable Slackware release.

I made the decision to provide this final set of packages after fielding
requests for help getting KDE3 to compile on x86_64, and upon checking it
out realized that the development environment has moved too far ahead for
KDE3 to be easily compiled. The same development issues existed on the
32-bit side as well, so after getting a set of packages working on x86_64,
I went ahead and made packages for 32-bit Slackware. With the included
patches, it should be a good base for making KDE3 packages for future
versions of Slackware too. Don't look for future updates for come from
us, though -- KDE4 is way to go, and KDE3 is dead. I know how it goes,
though... I've found over the years that no feature can ever be removed
without some fraction of users expressing disappointment (or even anger),
and KDE3 was a truly great desktop. However, in my opinion KDE4 has
already passed KDE3 in most regards and will only continue to improve.

The original goal when I started to play with KDE3 again was to figure out
a way to get it to coexist with KDE4, but now I'm fairly convinced that as
long as KDE4 is installed under /usr, that this is not going to be possible.
Trying to run KDE3 on a machine with KDE4 installed seems to result in both
desktops running at the same time. So, if you want to run this, follow
these instructions:

<snip>

mattydee 09-28-2009 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by easuter (Post 3699863)
You are labeled whiners because despite being repeatedly linked to pre-built KDE 3.5 packages and their SlackBuilds, you are still throwing your toys out of the pram.

We get it, you won't touch KDE 4 with a barge pole. Just install KDE 3.5 already!
HAHA.... ok
I still use KDE4 I'll have you know. I don't mind beta software that much...

lumak 09-28-2009 07:17 PM
what are you all using KDE for anyway? Bling just gets in the way. If you always have applications maximized, why do you need bling?

I think perhaps the better factor to concider is how well other applications support QT4. MythTV for example only has stable versions for QT3. If you want to install MythTV on slackware 13.0, you have to use an unstable SVN download.

WilliamS 09-28-2009 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL (Post 3699875)
I guess I just reacted badly to a blog post that presented no significant points of argument or evidence and merely resorted to the generalised bemoaning of a supposed "lack of options/configurability/features" in KDE4.

The author may very well have had valid arguments against KDE4. Unfortunately, he didn't bother to present any of them to his readers.
OK, here's one:installed 13, rebooted, heard a once-familiar beeping.
It was BIOS, telling me that the CPU fan was not running.

Makes sense, because that fan is in a box 20 feet away; I installed water cooling six years ago.

So into BIOS I go, and switch off the CPU fan detector again.

Anything that messes with BIOS is not for me. There were other problems, so I'll wait for Slackware 13.1

GazL 09-29-2009 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamS (Post 3700061)
OK, here's one:installed 13, rebooted, heard a once-familiar beeping.
It was BIOS, telling me that the CPU fan was not running.

Makes sense, because that fan is in a box 20 feet away; I installed water cooling six years ago.

So into BIOS I go, and switch off the CPU fan detector again.

Anything that messes with BIOS is not for me. There were other problems, so I'll wait for Slackware 13.1
What on earth does that have to do with KDE4? I find it hard to believe that the KDE4 desktop is getting inside your bios nvram and changing settings. Anything low level like that is far more likely to be a bad kernel driver.

samac 09-30-2009 05:19 AM
I have installed the 64 bit version of Slackware 13.0 added Alien Bob's 32-bit compatibility layer and tried KDE4, XFCE4 and KDE3.5.10. These thoughts are not empirical they are only my feelings. KDE4 feels slow and as if it has some rough edges, all the bits are there they just don't fit closely. Xfce4 feels smooth and slick, yet ultimately incomplete. KDE3.5.10 feels familiar, complete and smooth.

It should be understood that the only parts of KDE3.5.10 that I have installed are kdebase and kdelibs, with the addition of kdei en_GB, k3b3 and k3b3 internationalization. In this setup it feels as fast as XFCE4 yet is more integrated.

My choice is KDE 3.5.10, and XFCE4.6.1 will be a worthy successor when all the bits are ready. KDE4.2.4 needs to improve dramatically.

samac

a4z 10-04-2009 10:54 AM
has anyone tested/installed the 32bit version of kde 3.5.10?

the reason why I ask is that here
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackwar...packages/i486/

the kdelibs3-3.5.10-x86_64-opt2.txz seams to have the wrong ARCH

allix 10-04-2009 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4z (Post 3707257)
has anyone tested/installed the 32bit version of kde 3.5.10?

the reason why I ask is that here
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackwar...packages/i486/

the kdelibs3-3.5.10-x86_64-opt2.txz seams to have the wrong ARCH
I noticed that too. Just installed it and is seems to work fine.

WilliamS 10-04-2009 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL (Post 3700363)
What on earth does that have to do with KDE4? I find it hard to believe that the KDE4 desktop is getting inside your bios nvram and changing settings. Anything low level like that is far more likely to be a bad kernel driver.
Installed 13 without KDE; no problem.

So there.

mattydee 10-04-2009 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamS (Post 3707737)
Installed 13 without KDE; no problem.

So there.
I'm no fan of KDE4, but I doubt it was to blame your bios problem. There's no rational reason to think this... or at least you haven't provide one. Most likely like GazL said, it was a kernel driver issue or something at a lower level.

wadsworth 02-10-2010 06:59 AM
I put KDE 3.5.10 on a fresh install of Slackware 13.0 64bit,
but the kdepim3 package is missing. (I wanted akregator and kmail)

Turns out, kdepim-3.5.10 won't build on 13.0, but I found a patch
that seems to do the trick.
Code:
--- kdepim-3.5.10/kmail/editorwatcher.cpp.old
+++ kdepim-3.5.10/kmail/editorwatcher.cpp
@@ -40,22 +40,7 @@
 #include <linux/types.h>
 // Linux kernel headers are documented to not compile
 #define _S390_BITOPS_H
-#include <linux/inotify.h>
-
-static inline int inotify_init (void)
-{
-  return syscall (__NR_inotify_init);
-}
-
-static inline int inotify_add_watch (int fd, const char *name, __u32 mask)
-{
-  return syscall (__NR_inotify_add_watch, fd, name, mask);
-}
-
-static inline int inotify_rm_watch (int fd, __u32 wd)
-{
-  return syscall (__NR_inotify_rm_watch, fd, wd);
-}
+#include <sys/inotify.h>
 #endif
 
 using namespace KMail;
Just in case anyone's still interested. :D

I figure this is the last time I'll see the old KDE.
Can't be many people still using it, I've searched and found no mention
of this missing package.

EDIT:
Found another problem:
Automounting external drives doesn't work.
I'm assuming because the dbus-qt3 package is also missing.

I used the build scripts from 12.2 to build dbus-qt3-0.70.
An additional configure option is needed on 13.0:

--with-qt3-moc=/opt/kde3/bin/moc


Automounting still wouldn't work, but a thread on the "Linux from scratch"
forum pointed me towards rebuilding kdebase3.

That did the trick. Everything seems to work as well as ever,
so I'll try to use this version of KDE until 4.x adds a setting to disable
"mouse wheel scrolls through desktops" (I absolutely must be able to turn this off).

salemboot 02-21-2010 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by easuter (Post 3699863)
You are labeled whiners because despite being repeatedly linked to pre-built KDE 3.5 packages and their SlackBuilds, you are still throwing your toys out of the pram.

We get it, you won't touch KDE 4 with a barge pole. Just install KDE 3.5 already!

Which don't work quite so well. :)

Have you tried using Koffice lately in slack 13?

So stable it don't need a spell checker.


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