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The views or points within the thread are useful to the public but the distribution rights & control are 'PV's. Not yours nor mine or anyone else for that matter will sway the final approval for anything within Slackware.
Sounds a bit like the attitude of Microsoft to its users.
So do you think Pat V made and maintains Slackware for what reason ? Money ? What was his reason for doing this ? Just to earn a buck ? Surely it must have been more than that.
Beats the hell out of me. The only thing I can assume is that Shell was doing quite a lot of advertising back then.
Putting this in context though, I was probably around 11 years old back then and the digital calculator hadn't been on the scene all that long and had a 8 digit red LED as a display.
Anyway, getting back on topic a little.... A "logo competition" would have been quite a clever marketing tactic, but I don't think its really Pat's style.(Not that I know the chap). Unlike a lot of the other distros Slackware isn't a community driven product, and though we have a pretty nice support community here, Slackware is still more 'closed' than 'open'. The reason Slackware gets away with being 'closed' is that its also very good!
We could always have an unofficial logo competition, just for fun to see what we could all come up with? Ofcourse nothing would come of it, but on the offchance that someone came up with something spectacular you never know.
For me, this thread was never about putting pressure on Pat to change back. I was merely sharing my opinion on the new logo.
Unlike a lot of the other distros Slackware isn't a community driven product, and though we have a pretty nice support community here, Slackware is still more 'closed' than 'open'. The reason Slackware gets away with being 'closed' is that its also very good!
That "closed" word - I don't think it means what you think it means.
Slackware is very open - it's probably the only distribution left that still distributes complete source code and build scripts on the actual cdroms that are shipped to users.
If you were trying to say that Slackware's development process isn't open for commits by any random Joe on the internet, then yeah. In fact, your last sentence would be more correctly worded as "The reason Slackware is very good is because it's 'closed'" I think... :-)
So do you think Pat V made and maintains Slackware for what reason ? Money ? What was his reason for doing this ? Just to earn a buck ? Surely it must have been more than that.
It can't have been at the start, or even now, just for the money. Maybe he put it together because he saw a need for a freely available distro, or just out of curiosity.
We could always have an unofficial logo competition, just for fun to see what we could all come up with? Of course nothing would come of it, but on the off chance that someone came up with something spectacular you never know.
It can't have been at the start, or even now, just for the money. Maybe he put it together because he saw a need for a freely available distro, or just out of curiosity.
Yeah, but curiosity wears off, and sure he saw a need but that would only be the reason to start it not to keep it going.
In fact, your last sentence would be more correctly worded as "The reason Slackware is very good is because it's 'closed'" I think... :-)
I agree with most of the post but not this. The reason it's good is because the people who /are/ involved in the development are good at it, not because it's relatively hard to get involved. In fact, in my books that will always be a bad thing, you can make it more available to contributions while still maintaining control over what eventually gets into the "official" tree.
As to logo competitions... not a fan, most of the results are usually pretty poor - you're just hoping that the few with real design talent will get involved, and it doesn't always happen. If it doesn't what do you do? Do you say that you don't want to accept those given? Any officially endorsed competition would carry an expectation that the winner will be taken on and used. A less official competition or one on a platform like sitepoint which is separate from the community would be safe though. Getting it done by a respected designer with a good portfolio is the best way in my books, even if it costs (not to say that they don't sometimes produce poor work, I've seen that before, and then you're out cash... [note: not talking about the slackware logo, as I don't much like the portfolio]).
Yeah, but curiosity wears off, and sure he saw a need but that would only be the reason to start it not to keep it going.
Other people noticed it, wanted to try it, word spread about how good it was. Supply and demand. And he probably doesn't quite trust others, doesn't believe anyone else can maintain it to his standards (which have been very high, up until the new logo). Who knows? (He could be reading all this.)
... doesn't believe anyone else can maintain it to his standards (which have been very high, up until the new logo). Who knows? (He could be reading all this.)
Just because we're an officially endorsed support site? Nuh ;}
That "closed" word - I don't think it means what you think it means.
Slackware is very open - it's probably the only distribution left that still distributes complete source code and build scripts on the actual cdroms that are shipped to users.
If you were trying to say that Slackware's development process isn't open for commits by any random Joe on the internet, then yeah. In fact, your last sentence would be more correctly worded as "The reason Slackware is very good is because it's 'closed'" I think... :-)
Despite the fact that the Slackware development process is relatively closed (as far as commits), Pat does seem open to suggestions (particularly if they are bug fixes). If you read the Changelogs for current, for instance, there are quite a few notes of thanks to people who have helped out in small ways.
Also, another way for happy slackers to get involved in their favorite distro is to submit build scripts to slackBuilds.org. From being involved in that community I have seen software build scripts from SBo go into future Slackware versions (such as the recent additions of fuse, ntfs-3g, some python bindings libs, libwnck, and others). Who knows, maybe a build script you submit (thought perhaps modified) will be used in the next Slackware version...
To apply this to logos: If someone were to take some time and generate a nice logo and send it to Pat, there might be a possibility he would use it. At the very least it might be a nice addition to the Propaganda (banners, etc) page. The whole point of what I am saying is that I don't believe Pat is against community contributions. He likes things a certain way and may or may not use your contribution, but it is worth a shot. Even if it doesn't become a part of official Slackware (such as the scripts on SBo), it still might be of some good use to the community. So, if y'all want a logo contest, then by all means lets have one. I'm sure many people would appreciate more choices, and the publicity couldn't hurt either.
The whole point of what I am saying is that I don't believe Pat is against community contributions. He likes things a certain way and may or may not use your contribution, but it is worth a shot.
I agree entirely. It has been my impression over the years that Pat welcomes and values user contributions. Of course, what goes in and what doesn't is ultimately up to him, but speaking from experience, Pat is more than willing to discuss the pros and cons of a proposal as it relates to Slackware. It seems to me that there are very few distros out there (especially those with a large userbase like Slackware) where the maintainer is as approachable as Pat.
And Robby's point about providing all the sources is also well-taken. Unfortunately, some other distros do not seem to care about that as much.
I agree with most of the post but not this. The reason it's good is because the people who /are/ involved in the development are good at it, not because it's relatively hard to get involved. In fact, in my books that will always be a bad thing, you can make it more available to contributions while still maintaining control over what eventually gets into the "official" tree.
How much MORE available to contributions can it be? Absolutely ANYONE can contribute to Slackware development now. Patrick especially, but also Eric, Piter, I, and others receive emails from users quite often. When good suggestions, code, fixes, etcetera are contained in those mails, then it gets included (and with proper credit to the submitter). If the content is bad, it does not get included.
If someone shows a long and consistent string of good contributions, and that someone seems to have the right mindset for inclusion in the Slackware team, then inclusion might be considered. That's why we're there. Alan is best known for his work on the Slackware book, which he actually did *before* he was part of the team - due to that work and other contributions, he was invited to join. Eric is best known recently for lots of networking, installer, and scim stuff - things like that, but earlier, is why he was invited. My early stuff before I was part of the team was gnupg2 stuff (so that kmail/gpg functionality was complete), hplip, and various bugfixes all over the tree, and since then, dbus/hal and desktop integration in general. Piter PUNK is best known for his work on udev - he started that work well before he was actually a member of the team, and since he was invited to join, he pretty much maintains udev for Slackware on his own. The point is this: people who do good work consistently and contribute it to the team have their work included, even if they aren't actually part of the team. People who just whine about "Slackware isn't open" don't know what they're talking about.
There could be one reference to the fact that Slackware accepts contributions on the site. There could be a public bugzilla for tracking, submitting patches and wishlists. Etc. Also, note I never said it wasn't open, I just think it could easily be more so.
Last edited by PsychoticDude85; 08-24-2008 at 03:24 PM..
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